View topic - Of Blogs And Men

unforum
a.r.g.b.b

Welcome!

New users, PLEASE read these forum guidelines. New posters, SEARCH before posting and read these rules before posting your killer new campaign. New players may also wish to peruse the ARG Player Tutorial.

All users must abide by the Terms of Service.

Website Restoration Project

This archiving project is a collaboration between Unfiction and Sean Stacey (SpaceBass), Brian Enigma (BrianEnigma), and Laura E. Hall (lehall) with
the Center for Immersive Arts.

Announcements

This is a static snapshot of the
Unfiction forums, as of
July 23, 2017.

This site is intended as an archive to chronicle the history of Alternate Reality Games.

Our Esteemed Contributors

The time now is Mon Nov 18, 2024 1:41 pm
All times are UTC - 4 (DST in action)

View posts in this forum since last visit
View unanswered posts in this forum

Calendar

Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Slender Man Mythos

Of Blogs And Men
Moderators: ChildOfAtom, Cougar Draven, DavFlamerock, Dixie_Wolf, ndemeter

Page 3 of 6 [76 Posts]

Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next

Author

Message

awakeasaurusrex
Entrenched

Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 1099

Re: Of Blogs And Men
Clearing up some misconceptions about Slenderblogs

megaswfan wrote:

Let me start with admissions, starting with the big one: Slenderblogs are rarely scary to me, but then neither are the vlogs. In my opinion, both the vlogs and blogs have moved away from being about horror and are instead about characters. I believe that the concept of Slender Man works best as an external force used to progress a character onwards. More and more in the blogs, it's not about Slender Man. It's about how he changes people. It's about humanity. They tend to be more about reimagining ideas, such as the mindless proxy, the sociopathic hero, why Slender Man hunts, etc. Don't read a Slenderblog expecting to shit your pants. Expect instead to read about concepts and characters. This isn't horror, this is chaotic fiction.

Raging hard about this point. Horror fiction doesn't require abandoning characterisation, especially not in written horror fiction (as opposed to horror movies, which do admittedly tend to fail hard on that score). Character development and scares are not mutually exclusive and you don't have to abandon or neglect or even scale back one just because you chose to include the other.

Criticising a story because it has poor character development is legitimate even if it's a high-scares deal. Criticising a story if the parts which are meant to be frightening just don't work is legitimate even if the story has a heavy character development emphasis. If someone's trying to present something scary and it doesn't come across as scary that's still a problem. (If nothing else, if a writer can make us feel scared when the main character feels scared, surely that can only help us connect with the protagonist and follow the character development that much more closely?)

EDIT TO ADD: Also, how the hell can you talk about the great character development when one of the examples you cite includes posts like this, in which the dialogue comes across like a lame JRPG cutscene?

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:57 am

qaqa
Unfictologist

Joined: 23 Oct 2010
Posts: 1660

Quote:

You read my blogs, well ,,,,then you know why I won't stop!

Keeping this.

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:18 am

SolDL
Unfettered

Joined: 21 Oct 2010
Posts: 545

Re: Of Blogs And Men
Clearing up some misconceptions about Slenderblogs

awakeasaurusrex wrote:

this

Oh boy! Join me in Angoraskype in about 9 hours and I will do a dramatic reading of this! IT'LL BE AWESOME

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:48 am

megaswfan
Boot

Joined: 31 May 2011
Posts: 12

Re: Of Blogs And Men
Clearing up some misconceptions about Slenderblogs

awakeasaurusrex wrote:

megaswfan wrote:

Never once did I say they're mutually exclusive concepts. I'm instead pointing backwards at times like Just Another Fool in which the characters were vehicles for plots to drive them around. There was a firmer focus on Slender Man and isolation back then, as compared to now where the focus is on how characters interact. For better or worse, that's what the shared universe has become about.

If that point in the first post implied me saying "Pah! Horror! This is CHARACTERS!" that was not my intention. I was simply stating that the medium has evolved, taken into account that much of the audience that is there are fellow creators commenting as characters, and instead began to focus on the characters more than Slender Man.

I personally like this because, at least to me, Slender Man just generally isn't that terrifying anymore. He's been analyzed and written/filmed to hell and back. I read the blog and watch vlogs because I'm curious in ways he can be used (new scenarios, new interpretations, new characters to stalk), not because I want to be scared. But that's just me.

Quote:

EDIT TO ADD: Also, how the hell can you talk about the great character development when one of the examples you cite includes posts like this, in which the dialogue comes across like a lame JRPG cutscene?

Answer: Because I feel that dialogue is one of the only particularly sticky points of Last Refuge and I forgive it because I enjoy the character arc and dialogue is one of the trickiest things to pull off in a blog IMO. You take what you get in amateur fiction.

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:42 am

awakeasaurusrex
Entrenched

Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 1099

Re: Of Blogs And Men
Clearing up some misconceptions about Slenderblogs

megaswfan wrote:

Quote:

I guess you hit the nail on the head there: it's amateur fiction. Of course there's going to be people who are unwilling to wade through the masses of Slenderblogs to find the gold there: the barrier to entry is extremely low. Whereas in professional fiction publishers might be willing to release mediocre schlock but certainly won't be willing to release something with crappy grammar, gaping plot holes, and other examples of horrendous incompetence, the field of amateur/self-published fiction is simply swamped with such low-grade crap.

I am not saying that Slenderblogs are all low-grade crap by any stretch of the imagination (I still really like Musical Occurrences). But what I am saying is that Sturgeon's law gets a few extra decimals when it comes to self-published stuff shoved out on blogs, regardless of the subject matter of the story, and Slenderblogs suffer from this in the exact same way every other realm of amateur writing does. If 99% of the stuff that's commercially released is crap, 99.999% of the stuff that people knock off themselves and self-publish is crap, because there's no filtering, no point where someone says "Look, we can't keep pushing on with this, it just isn't up to scratch in its current form and we need to go back to the drawing board." Some people have the time and patience to find the gold amongst the crud anyway, personally I don't.

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:23 am

megaswfan
Boot

Joined: 31 May 2011
Posts: 12

Re: Of Blogs And Men
Clearing up some misconceptions about Slenderblogs

awakeasaurusrex wrote:

Some people have the time and patience to find the gold amongst the crud anyway, personally I don't.

And thus, the key to the discussion. If you've got time and the desire, there's good stuff to be found. If not, feel free to move along. I simply wrote my post to clear up some generalizations.

...

However, sometimes there is something that is so shit it becomes pure gold. Sometimes you find that one piece of crap that absolutely must be shared. Today, that vile piece of refuse has been found. As such, I share it with you.

The Abducted

This is a blog about a woman who is Slender Man's sex slave. She's falling in love with him. He talks to her. After sex, he gets "chatty" and tells her all his weaknesses. After a hard day of psychologically tormenting college students, HE ROLLS UP HIS SLEEVES AND CHILLS ON THE COUCH...

And these aren't even the worst parts. I know that linking this in a thread that's purpose is to say "Don't make wide sweeping generalizations about blogs claiming they're badly written Mary Sue power fantasies that are utterly impenetrable" is a bit against the point but...

It's worth it. It's all worth it.

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:28 pm

Lewa
Unfettered

Joined: 11 Nov 2010
Posts: 518
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Of Blogs And Men
Clearing up some misconceptions about Slenderblogs

megaswfan wrote:

awakeasaurusrex wrote:

Some people have the time and patience to find the gold amongst the crud anyway, personally I don't.

...
...
whywhywhywhywhythisbloghasbrokenmybrainandimnowacrappyproxy
iseeitforeveralways
iwelcomeHisembracetopurgethesememories

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:04 pm

TrailheadTroll
Boot

Joined: 30 Apr 2011
Posts: 67

Re: Of Blogs And Men
Clearing up some misconceptions about Slenderblogs

awakeasaurusrex wrote:

I am not saying that Slenderblogs are all low-grade crap by any stretch of the imagination (I still really like Musical Occurrences). But what I am saying is that Sturgeon's law gets a few extra decimals when it comes to self-published stuff shoved out on blogs, regardless of the subject matter of the story, and Slenderblogs suffer from this in the exact same way every other realm of amateur writing does. If 99% of the stuff that's commercially released is crap, 99.999% of the stuff that people knock off themselves and self-publish is crap, because there's no filtering, no point where someone says "Look, we can't keep pushing on with this, it just isn't up to scratch in its current form and we need to go back to the drawing board." Some people have the time and patience to find the gold amongst the crud anyway, personally I don't.

I am sorry to invade again at this point, but this is part of why I started doing my job as TrailheadTroll. I am trying to already offer a selection with certain standards for people who don't want to wade through the bad stuff in order to find it. Thusly, I offer my trailhead threads and my tumblr for everyone interested in that service: http://trailheadtroll.tumblr.com

_________________
Feed me.
Trailheads.

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:25 pm

qaqa
Unfictologist

Joined: 23 Oct 2010
Posts: 1660

Re: Of Blogs And Men
Clearing up some misconceptions about Slenderblogs

megaswfan wrote:

This is my fundamental disagreement, right there in that last line: No, I don't. I do not, and I don't have to. I judge writing as writing, period, not amateur vs. professional - it's either good or it's bad, or more accurately and fairly, either I like it or I do not. I choose what to read based on whether it works for me, and that's all I'm obligated to do, for myself. AFAIC a Slenderblog that cannot balance horror and character - unless it's something well-written with a deliberately cold or analytically-distanced premise, a la something like Max Brooks' World War Z with multiple anecdotes or in the guise of 'official reports' - is not to my interest, nor is it my problem. If you say Slender Man is not scary to you anymore, maybe that's more on you or your changed perception instead of the character. If it was me in the position of one of these writers, instead of retreating into more and more insular character/fantasy stuff, I'd make him scary again. Kill most everyone who likes to play together off, wipe the slate clean, and do something new.

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:28 pm

SublimeInsomnia
Boot

Joined: 25 Oct 2010
Posts: 39

Cougar Draven wrote:

Aurastys wrote:

It's just a whole lot easier to get into a film or video than reading. That's why movies generally sell better than books. It's just easier entertainment. It's more visceral and can make you jump.

I disagree with a lot of what you've said, but this most of all. This may just be me, but I find it harder to get invested and involved in a film than a book of similar quality. Books have more of an in-depth world to them, and for the most part, films need to keep a fast pace, which usually annoys me, because I like the entertainment to last for a while.

I have to agree with Cougar; I find it far more difficult to get emotionally invested in a film (compare 3 films making me teary to 7 books). However, Aurastys also has a point, in so far as audio-visual presentation allows more of our senses to experience the story and, as much as we all like to believe in the power of imagination, a world we can have direct sensory interaction with will affect our emotions more, which is why I am so much more emotionally invested in TV shows than in books (compare 7 books making me teary to 12 TV shows).

awakeasaurusrex wrote:

Whereas in professional fiction publishers might be willing to release mediocre schlock but certainly won't be willing to release something with crappy grammar, gaping plot holes, and other examples of horrendous incompetence...

Oh, what a charmingly idealistic view of the publishing industry you have.

awakeasaurusrex wrote:

Some people have the time and patience to find the gold amongst the crud anyway, personally I don't.

If this is the case, I don't really see why you're bothering to comment in this thread. This thread was about megaswfan teaching what he's learned about the Slenderblogosphere. If you don't have "the time and patience to find the gold amongst the crud", then you obviously have nothing to learn from megaswfan. Why are you bothering?

qaqa wrote:

If you say Slender Man is not scary to you anymore, maybe that's more on you or your changed perception instead of the character.

Probably, since he explicitly stated that everything in the first post is just his opinion.

qaqa wrote:

If it was me in the position of one of these writers, instead of retreating into more and more insular character/fantasy stuff, I'd make him scary again. Kill most everyone who likes to play together off, wipe the slate clean, and do something new.

There are just so many things wrong with this I...I can't even verbalise it. Hopefully someone smarter will come along and do it because I...I don't even...

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:35 pm

qaqa
Unfictologist

Joined: 23 Oct 2010
Posts: 1660

SublimeInsomnia wrote:

There are just so many things wrong with this I...I can't even verbalise it. Hopefully someone smarter will come along and do it because I...I don't even...

I'm sure you're smart enough; you just don't like that I suggested everyone kill their beloved characters that have all that history/baggage and get back to something that has a more even balance of horror and character. I mean, it's been admitted that the balance is askew - why not correct it?

And you can't deride the admittedly-fucked publishing industry in one breath, then ask us to give special dispensation to "amateur fiction" in the next. AFAIC any writer out there, published or unpublished, is potentially just as talented and capable of excellent, professional work as any other. Every writer is a process; I know I still am. I am not going to give anyone a pass because they either a) have a blog or b) have been published. I judge them all the same, by the same standard, and I'd only ask the same of me.

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:39 pm

awakeasaurusrex
Entrenched

Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 1099

SublimeInsomnia wrote:

awakeasaurusrex wrote:

]Whereas in professional fiction publishers might be willing to release mediocre schlock but certainly won't be willing to release something with crappy grammar, gaping plot holes, and other examples of horrendous incompetence...

Oh, what a charmingly idealistic view of the publishing industry you have.

Nothing idealistic about it. No doubt that there are some crappy books put out by the industry, but find the most typo-ridden, badly-spelled, gramatically screwed up book put out by any major publisher you care to mention and you'll be able to find a dozen amateur publications with even worse standards.

Like I said, major publishers have no point putting out mediocre stuff - with shallow characterisation, stupid plots, and all the rest - but there's a level of ineptitude at which point even they will balk.

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:41 pm

megaswfan
Boot

Joined: 31 May 2011
Posts: 12

Re: Of Blogs And Men
Clearing up some misconceptions about Slenderblogs

qaqa wrote:

megaswfan wrote:

You take what you get in amateur fiction.

This is my fundamental disagreement, right there in that last line: No, I don't. I do not, and I don't have to.
[...]
I choose what to read based on whether it works for me, and that's all I'm obligated to do, for myself.

Then you don't read "shared universe" Slenderblogs that don't fit your standards for what you like in a story (as you already say you aren't) and you don't make generalized statements on what you haven't read. Problem solved.

qaqa wrote:

AFAIC a Slenderblog that cannot balance horror and character [...] is not to my interest, nor is it my problem. If you say Slender Man is not scary to you anymore, maybe that's more on you or your changed perception instead of the character.

It's not a question of not balancing horror and character writing. It's a matter of the shared stories evolving into something that isn't based on horror anymore because that's not where their audience is anymore. Things evolve. It happens. The mainstream blogs aren't about isolated horror anymore. They often have horror IN them, but it's now the frosting instead of the cake. No matter the opinion on if its for better or worse, that's what has happened to the shared blogs.

The mainstream Slenderblogs aren't for you. Fine. Don't read them. I never said you, or anyone else, should. I simply came here to share what I've learned that I like and dislike about blogs and how it is similar or different from common opinions I have seen on Unforum.

qaqa wrote:

First, these are stories you've made clear are not relevant to your interests so making a blanket claim on what the authors should do seems mighty presumptuous of you. They aren't writing them towards you or what you like because you've made it quite clear you aren't in their intended audience. Claiming you know what they should do with their stories better than they do seems like rather poor form to me.

And second, there are a number of isolated blogs out there that you may be in the audience of (Fabulous, Hiking Fiend, Once). You don't have to say "Everyone is doing it wrong and you should all start over again" just because they aren't writing stories that you're interested in writing.

You've made it quite clear you aren't interested in reading certain styles of blogs. Go ahead and keep doing that. The authors will continue writing them, I'll keep enjoying them, and the world keeps turning. All I'd like to see is a little less presumptuousness on what blogs are, what they're becoming, and what the authors should do.

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:13 pm
Last edited by megaswfan on Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

SublimeInsomnia
Boot

Joined: 25 Oct 2010
Posts: 39

qaqa wrote:

You know what, you're right, I am smart enough. I will tell you exactly what is wrong with what you said.

First of all, the balance is askew in your opinion. It's not in mine and it's obviously not in megaswfan's. Yes, the blogosphere is more character-based now, that is true, but the point is that that's not necessarily a bad thing. I personally prefer highly character-driven series like Smiting the Gods and MLAnderson0 to series like Marble Hornets, which has a AFGNCAAP protagonist who is used as a vehicle for horror thrills. This is my personal opinion and I don't expect anyone else in the world to hold it.

Which brings me smoothly to my second point; you. This thread is neither about you nor is it for you. This thread is about megaswfan teaching what he's learned about the Slenderblogosphere and if you are not willing to be taught, then your only possible reason for being here is to antagonise other people. We get it. You have issues with blogs. They don't meet your standards. You want them to be done differently. And you are too close-minded and stubborn to ever let anything as trivial as someone else's opinions change yours, so your presence here serves absolutely no purpose than to just poison this wonderful, wonderful thing that we, as a community, have created with bad feeling. This thread is for people who are willing to learn. If you are not willing to learn, leave.

Thirdly and finally, I would say "If you think something should be done, do it" but I know exactly how you'd react. You have a job, you have your own writing, you have obligations. Well, guess what? So do 90% of the people writing these blogs and I can personally only think of one of them who's job is "professional writer". The same reasons you're not going around reinvigorating the Mythos with your doubtlessly amazing writing abilities is the exact same reason that they're not; they have lives. This is chaotic amateur fiction, these are people giving up their free time, unpaid, to provide free entertainment to anyone who wants it. And if some of them don't meet your standards, then don't read their blogs, but don't be so arrogant as to expect them to redo their entire work or start over just to please you, especially because, and I can say this with confidence, qaqa, there is not a single Slenderblogger among the many talented, creative and dedicated Slenderbloggers I know who gives two swings of a donkey's swollen cock if you don't like their blog.

Also, I never derided the publishing industry but asked you to give allowances to amateur fiction. Honestly, I've only been here a while, so my view may be skewed by inexperience, but I've never seen you get involved in an argument here on uF without attacking someone for an argument they didn't make.

Now, I know that what I just said was aggressive, antagonistic and hostile, but fuck it, I've only been here a few weeks and I'm tired of your shit. This blogger/uF rift? Not about you. This issue we're discussing? Not about you. This thread? Neither about you nor for you. If you're too arrogant to take any lessons away from what megaswfan has said, then you serve no purpose by polluting this thread with your toxic opinions. Please, I'm asking you, do us all a favour and don't stick your nose into issues that don't concern you. If you're not willing to learn, at least have the decency to not obstruct other people from doing so.

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:15 pm

Luipaard
Unfictologist

Joined: 23 Nov 2010
Posts: 1269
Location: Houston, Texas

Sublime, it has very little to do with qaqa -- or anyone else for that matter -- being "unwilling to learn." It's more that you and megaswfan are offering something completely different from what many people want. To make a metaphor, you're trying to teach nuclear physics to a sculptor. Its not that nuclear physics (i.e. the general Slender blog-o-sphere) isn't important or worthwhile, its just that it has no bearing on what the sculpting student wants or needs.

Also? Everyone in this thread, and I do mean everyone, needs to step away from the computer and go do something else for a few hours. Slender Man is not worth getting into an internet-fight over. For heaven's sake, there's a stickied thread right next to this one discussing this precise behavior and why its deplorable.

Stop acting like this is such a big deal. If anyone is getting real, emotional distress from qaqa not being into blogs or megaswfan really enjoying the blogs, than its only proof of over-investment. And that never ends well for anyone.

Good lord, someone's going to break out the all-caps next.

_________________
Active: Marble Hornets

Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:28 pm

Display posts from previous: Sort by:

Page 3 of 6 [76 Posts]

Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next

Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Slender Man Mythos

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
You cannot post calendar events in this forum