unforum

[DaLadybugMan]

[Luipaard]

[Dixie_Wolf]

Thank you, Luipaard.
Seriously, lets all calm down and take some deep breaths and back away from the keyboard for a second. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and getting angry while expressing yours isn't going to do anything to persuade anyone else. We're not Internet Tough Guys here, so let's not act like it, alright?

[Cougar Draven]

[SublimeInsomnia]

[megaswfan]

I'm more than willing to take a break, not that I'm at all emotionally distressed and generally feel I took a highly rational bent towards my discussion with qaqa... but...

[Luipaard]

@SublimeInsomnia
qaqa's opinions are not irrelevant. Cougar is right to say that this is a debate worth having. If only we were willing to actually debate instead of throwing shit at each other's faces like howler monkeys.

megaswfan's post, whether he meant it to or not, is one that invites debate and argument. If he had made a post that said "I love the Slender Man blogs and here are my reasons why, everyone come and celebrate the megaawesomecool blogs with me" I think this thread would have turned out very differently. But he didn't, and it hasn't.

It sounds like you want a thread that talks about the blogs and celebrates what you like: I suggest you make it so that you and others can carry on with the squee and if anyone comes in and tries to harsh on it, there will be words. But this is not that thread and that was clear from the very first post.

[qaqa]

First of all, I haven't attacked anyone. Second of all, I haven't insulted any of you, or mocked anything you've said, or called anyone names. And thirdly, I never said "all these blogs are doing it wrong, they have to reboot." I said what I would personally do if I was a blogger and as a writer, and if I had encountered a problem with tone balance in my blog. Let me repeat that: what I would personally do. I never made a blanket claim, or cast aspirations on any of your blogs, or anyone else's.

I haven't called anyone names, or insulted anyone, or lost my temper in here. I don't "attack people for arguments they [don't] make." I've been civil and reasonable and rational and, I think, pretty polite, if candid and honest. I assumed this thread was erected for a civil discussion about the blogosphere, and I saw a number of commonalities in points I'd made in the past in what was being discussed here, so I decided to join in. But looking at this sudden freakout I'm not sure that's what you really wanted at all.

You call my opinions toxic; they're not. They're just strong opinions, and they're not offensive or cruel or anything else. Nobody's been slandered, nobody's been insulted. My opinions aren't toxic. They're just not yours. As I said, I judge any piece of writing I see by the same standards I'd judge any other. I think it's the only fair thing to do. I would think anyone would welcome being taken as seriously as any author. And as I said, writing is a process - when we stop changing and learning, we die, or the work goes flat and cold. That's as true of me as it is of anyone. So I don't pretend that anything you or I are today is what will be tomorrow or the next day. Everyone goes to new places every time they create; everyone improves or simply changes. That's a fact of life, that's the beauty of what we do. I'm no better than anyone else. People asked me what I did in the EMH thread and I reluctantly told them after months of not wanting to publicly discuss it on UF. But I am not special, I am not a published author per se, I struggle to make a wage like anyone else, and I have never invoked what I do as something to use against any of you in an argument. That's something you put on me, it's something I would never do, and it's totally unfair.

And no, I don't think this is about me, although I did feel singled out at times when I saw stuff that seemed to directly address points I'd made before. As such, I chose to respond and continue what I thought was a reasonable discussion. You guys made this thread ostensibly to talk about blogs, and we've done that. So no, it's not about me, but nor is it about the rest of us simply kneeling on bended knee before you, listening to you explain the blogosphere to us from on high. It's a discussion forum - there is a give and take. We all have to listen, we can't just receive. That's what I've been doing, except you don't like what I have to say back. You think, 'what right does he have to criticize about their OR our work?' The answer is, I have as much right as anyone else. I certainly have at least as much right to criticize a piece of work as you do to come here and tell us we're wrong to feel the way we do.

You call me stubborn and closed-minded and that's not the case, either. When I first saw EverymanHYBRID and TribeTwelve, early on, I didn't think much of them at all; I thought they'd never compare to MH. I was wrong; I adore them now. Same goes for MLAndersen0 and Dark Harvest, which I was very skeptical about, and a number of blogs I enjoy as well, including Fabulous. I change my mind like anyone else. I adjust my attitudes and my opinions.

I came in here to discuss the ups and downs and pluses and minuses of Slenderblogs like anyone else. I happen to have strong opinions on what I think blogs should be doing, but I never said my word was law or sacrosanct; I simply said what I felt, just as you did. But I never told you to shut up or stop talking because I personally, unilaterally decided you had nothing left to contribute. Because I am no authority on this, and guess what? Neither are you. And that, I think, is why this thread has suddenly gone downhill; you don't like the suggestion that anyone could tell you anything different in a thread YOU created to tell US how to look at things.

Truthfully, I hope you don't care how I feel about this stuff. Based on these outbursts, I'd hate to see what kind of response you'd give to someone whose opinion you actually respected. But next time you want to come in here and have a candid conversation about the Slenderblogs with us, do us all a couple favors: Actually mean what you say. Don't start out pretending you want a fair exchange, then lose your temper and resort to childish insults when someone calmly presents an opposing point of view. Better yet, perhaps you could vet and select who's allowed to talk and who's not well in advance, so we don't waste our time pretending we have the right to voice a polite opinion that differs from yours.

I am not going to stop reading the blogs I enjoy based on the way you choose to behave towards me or others, and I'm not going to take it out on other bloggers or blog fans. But if I or anyone else feels a little less inclined to look at the blogs you work on or enjoy, I hope you'll understand it might have something to do with your behavior and your attitude right here, right now. This is why I originally suggested taking any further blog discussion to PMs, and I'm still welcome and open to that with anyone. I'm not going to call anyone names, or insult anyone; that's not how I do around here. But if I disagree with you, I'm not going to let anyone - anywhere - tell me that I don't have the right to talk.

[SublimeInsomnia]

[qaqa]

[SublimeInsomnia]

Right, because if either of us had said "We'd like you to stop discussing this", you would have listened. The fact that I did tell you to leave the discussion and you're still responding sort of negates the point.

Honestly, I would be perfectly happy to debate the merits of various Slenderblogs and the Slenderblogosphere as whole, but not here, because that's not what this thread is intended for. In fact, I would be delighted for any of you to tell me exactly what you don't like about any of my blogs, because criticism helps me grow as an author. Just not here. This was intended as an informative thread and, tellingly, was stickied along with other informative threads. If you want to debate Slenderblogs, then I'd be happy to debate with you but this thread was supposed to be informative and was turned into a debate.

As for the reason that I responded to you in particular; it wasn't just what you were saying, it was your attitude. You were treating megaswfan's opinions like a personal attack, just because they corresponded to things you'd said before. You were acting like the issue revolved around you and, above all things, I loathe arrogance, my own arrogance most especially but that doesn't make me despise yours any less.

Look, this thread, which was supposed to be informative and supposed to help along the road to healing the uF/blogger rift has only obstructed it like a big teenage drama donkey. I'm done here and I hope the rest of you are too so this thread can be left back to its intended purpose.

[Dixie_Wolf]

[qaqa]

[megaswfan]

Just two short notes because I do believe this topic has gotten far away from my intention. First...

[qaqa]