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Forum index » Diversions » The Master Theorem

Turing Test
Moderators: Cougar Draven

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Kawikap
Greenhorn

Joined: 28 Oct 2011
Posts: 6

Turing Test

This was fun and fairly straightforward, however...

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

Despite what the flavor text says the final answer will be a word or phrase, like usual

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:30 am

SoItBegins
Veteran

Joined: 16 May 2011
Posts: 83

I know which are humans. ...now what?
EDIT: Never mind, got it. Nice to see that technique showing up in the puzzles for the first time!

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:49 am

Rogi Ocnorb
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee

Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 4266
Location: Where the cheese is free.

Any body else find multiple ways to do the logic part?
I did and ~~one of~~ the other way s comes out to a phrase. (That doesn't work)

_________________
I'm telling you now, so you can't say, "Oh, I didn't know...Nobody told me!"

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:01 am

Doctroid
Greenhorn

Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 4

Rogi Ocnorb wrote:

Any body else find multiple ways to do the logic part?
I did and ~~one of~~ the other way s comes out to a phrase. (That doesn't work)

No, and I convinced myself there was only one solution. Are you sure of both of yours?

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:24 am

Thomfabian
Guest

A few hints in case anyone is stuck

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

Disregard what anyone says about themselves as no response could be anything but "I'm human"

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

I found it easiest to simply group who had to be the same and who had to be different

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

Any time one entity refers to another entity as a human those two entities have to be the same (human or computer), and the reverse is true. Any time one calls another a computer they must be different

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

Any time one entity refers to more than one other entity as the same thing, they must be alike

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

From there find which grouping has six members and which has four.

A hint about finding the final answer:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

the solution would be fairly easy to find even if you did not solve the "who is a computer/human question" as long as you figured out how you'd get the answer if you Did know

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:25 am

jonnois
Boot

Joined: 16 Jul 2011
Posts: 13

I got it not knowing who was human or not using Thomfabian's last clue "A hint about finding the final answer:"

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:59 am

Rogi Ocnorb
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee

Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 4266
Location: Where the cheese is free.

Doctroid wrote:

Rogi Ocnorb wrote:

Any body else find multiple ways to do the logic part?
I did and ~~one of~~ the other way s comes out to a phrase. (That doesn't work)

No, and I convinced myself there was only one solution. Are you sure of both of yours?

Both ways seem equally valid. But then again, There's no way I could ever solve it in the 1-2 minutes the fastest solvers did, so maybe I'm missing something.

The explanation of the solution makes a statement beginning, "As it turns out...". The "other way" proves that to be untrue.

_________________
I'm telling you now, so you can't say, "Oh, I didn't know...Nobody told me!"

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:34 am

The Baffled King
Boot

Joined: 07 Sep 2011
Posts: 34

Thomfabian wrote:

A few hints in case anyone is stuck

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

This is a nice point, but actually I think it's not clear that it's correct. For example, take Margarette's statement, "Francisqui and I are humans."

Now,

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

I can see why Thomfabian says we can conclude that Francisqui and Margarette are the same type, but in fact it's possible that Margarette is a computer and Francisqui is a human. Because the statement is a conjunction, it is made false by the falsity of the first conjunct. Thomfabian's rule would be correct if Margarette asserted each conjunct separately.

There's a similar defect in the next rule/hint:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

Any time one entity refers to more than one other entity as the same thing, they must be alike

Very disappointing, because the rules are almost right and they are very elegant.

I adopted puzzler's trick of using the fact that there is supposed to be exactly one solution. I did hit fairly quickly on the intended solution. But because the logical compounds make the problem trickier than it looks, I do wonder whether there is another, unintended solution. I might work on this later -- but Rogi Ocnorb post the alternative? Or is that not allowed in this forum?

My assessment: relatively easy puzzle, but still fun.

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:47 am

Rob0412
Kilroy

Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 2

The Baffled King wrote:

Thomfabian wrote:

A few hints in case anyone is stuck

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

This is a nice point, but actually I think it's not clear that it's correct. For example, take Margarette's statement, "Francisqui and I are humans."

Now,

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

There's a similar defect in the next rule/hint:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

Any time one entity refers to more than one other entity as the same thing, they must be alike

If you've found the correct solution to the logic puzzle...

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

...then you've found the alternate solution. Just invert it. I did as M suggested in the solution text, and the "As it turns out..." is incorrect. The 6/4 split is the only thing that indicates which is the correct solution. That, and the next part of the puzzle doesn't work.

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:15 am

chico_can
Greenhorn

Joined: 17 May 2011
Posts: 9

I'm still stuck on the last part - I can't understand what to do ...

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

What is the "slanty" cipher/technique?

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:32 am

The Baffled King
Boot

Joined: 07 Sep 2011
Posts: 34

Rob0412 wrote:

If you've found the correct solution to the logic puzzle...

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

Well, that's not a legal solution. (But I see what you mean about M's little phrase on the solution page being incorrect. Good point, but that's a flaw in his gloss, not a flaw in the puzzle.)

I worked on it a little more and I'm satisfied that there is only one solution consistent with the stated constraints.

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:44 am

cgeorg
Boot

Joined: 02 Jun 2011
Posts: 14

I believe I have the right list of names... I now have no idea what to do with any of them. Any hints on the next/last step?

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:22 am

Doctroid
Greenhorn

Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 4

Quote:

If you've found the correct solution to the logic puzzle...

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

That's not a solution, because it doesn't have the correct numbers of computers and humans. It satisfies the logic statements but not the full statement of the puzzle.

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:23 am
Last edited by Doctroid on Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:31 am; edited 1 time in total

Doctroid
Greenhorn

Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 4

cgeorg wrote:

I believe I have the right list of names... I now have no idea what to do with any of them. Any hints on the next/last step?

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

As hint 3 indicates, you need to use the numbers corresponding to the list of names to index into... something.

Something with (at least) 10 letters, obviously. Each name has 10 letters but there's no preferred name and none of them work anyway.

Need more?

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

There are 10 names so you could try the first letter of each name, or the last, or the third, or... but those don't work either.

But at that point you'd be really close to discovering the correct method. Check hint 3 again.

And don't do what I did and mis-transcribe the names, or you'll think the correct method is wrong because it's yielding nonsense.

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:30 am

Renoroc
Boot

Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 11

Computers always lie

Seems to me that the computers would be honest and that the humans would be liars.

I'm not good at these logic puzzles. Is there more than just figuring out the humans? Should I be typing their names out or will the numbers of who they are do?

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:47 am

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