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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
[SPEC] Kralie's Marble Hornets: The Production From Hell
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Biohazard80
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Spades Slick wrote:
Xicon wrote:
Spades Slick wrote:
I dont buy the "Tim wanted to kill jay to get rid of the evidence" part. it sorta falls apart at that, for me.

If you look at 33, tim doesn't really attack jay. He goes at him, sure, tries to be all scary. But he doesnt rush in until after jay's gotten all the tapes, and when he does rush in, he just slaps him. He doesnt bring a knife, like he did at the encounter with alex- he just tries to scare him off. And he only does THAT when jay stands up and turns around, indicating he had all the tapes.

Despite all the jokes, i really doubt tim is THAT incompetent.


I think the reasons you just stated actually strengthen the idea that Tim was after the tapes. He attacks Jay after seeing he had the tapes - after being sure that Jay had them all and that there weren't still tapes in the safe.


But he doesnt come armed. And when he DOES attack, he only SLAPS him. He doesnt grab him, or throw him down like he's done SEVERAL times with alex, (and with his leg broken, too,) he just slaps at him and chases after him, making spooky sounds on the tape. I think whatever masky's in it for is much bigger than "KILL JAY HE'S ON TO US," or he would've come armed, just like he did in 35.

Bitch slaps aren't an effective manner of murder, which is why the community realized shit was getting real when he DID come armed in 35.

masky makes it VERY VERY clear when he wants to kill someone.


I said it once I'll say it again, I see Masky's "attack" on Jay at this point as a "get the hell out of here, he knows where you are" kind of thing. Also, considering the safe combination was on the dresser and Tim was in the room, if he wanted to tapes, couldn't he easily just get them himself? For some reason I feel like Tim wrote the combination down after he took a tape while Jay was out cold, or at least watched some of them depending on the time of Slendy's attack. Either way I think Tim wants Jay to be safe rather than Slendy food.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:55 pm
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Spades Slick
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Xicon wrote:
I didn't say that Tim wanted to kill Jay, just attack him to get the evidence.


And yet, once more, he never grappled with jay, never tried to cling to him, or throw him down, or anything. He just slapped at him. It's not that he didnt think of it, as we've seen Tim's particular fondness with wrestling when it came to alex.

I urge you to look at Tim's method of attack in all of the entries. He understands how to get what he wants, and only ever really gets stopped by an unexpected interference- Jay being there in 35, the Operator coming when he ganged up on him with the second masked man. He's not an incompetent attacker, and Jay's not gonna get knocked down by a slap.

Im agreeing with Biohazard here.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:57 pm
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ZargggModerator
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 		Some of us have been pushing that theory for a while: Tim doesn't want to kill Jay, but he does want to scare him to make him abandon this whole investigation.

However, that doesn't really explain why Tim turned normal after attacking Jay at the hotel. Jay didn't give up investigating and uploading videos, as evidenced by the fact that Season 2 existed at all. So why is Tim going about life as Tim, now?

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:58 pm
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Spades Slick
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Zarggg wrote:
Some of us have been pushing that theory for a while: Tim doesn't want to kill Jay, but he does want to scare him to make him abandon this whole investigation.

However, that doesn't really explain why Tim turned normal after attacking Jay at the hotel. Jay didn't give up investigating and uploading videos, as evidenced by the fact that Season 2 existed at all. So why is Tim going about life as Tim, now?


I think that's still easily explained by the split personality theory. The idea that masky is an entirely different identity than Tim is, and they just share a body.

I don't think he really wants him to abandon the whole investigation, as much as he wants him to move around to different places quite a bit. For what reason, im not sure, but i suppose there must be some danger lurking around the corner. I see tim as a guardian of sorts, really.

The TTA entries have too much information in them to be dissuasive, i think.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:01 pm
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Xicon
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Zarggg wrote:
Some of us have been pushing that theory for a while: Tim doesn't want to kill Jay, but he does want to scare him to make him abandon this whole investigation.

However, that doesn't really explain why Tim turned normal after attacking Jay at the hotel. Jay didn't give up investigating and uploading videos, as evidenced by the fact that Season 2 existed at all. So why is Tim going about life as Tim, now?


I definitely think there is more to the TTA dynamic that we just have no way of knowing yet. The TTA videos from season 2 seem to show them encouraging Jay, telling him to continue, which is in direct contradiction to what we've seen previously, both solid fact and theory.

Somewhere along the line, TTA changes their mind and suddenly wants Jay to share. Tim living a normal life is either part of this change in motivation, or indicative of a change in membership/leadership.

I have no evidence to back any of this up yet, but I think it is one of the first things that will be addressed in season 3.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:04 pm
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Biohazard80
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Xicon wrote:
Zarggg wrote:
Some of us have been pushing that theory for a while: Tim doesn't want to kill Jay, but he does want to scare him to make him abandon this whole investigation.

However, that doesn't really explain why Tim turned normal after attacking Jay at the hotel. Jay didn't give up investigating and uploading videos, as evidenced by the fact that Season 2 existed at all. So why is Tim going about life as Tim, now?


I definitely think there is more to the TTA dynamic that we just have no way of knowing yet. The TTA videos from season 2 seem to show them encouraging Jay, telling him to continue, which is in direct contradiction to what we've seen previously, both solid fact and theory.

Somewhere along the line, TTA changes their mind and suddenly wants Jay to share. Tim living a normal life is either part of this change in motivation, or indicative of a change in membership/leadership.

I have no evidence to back any of this up yet, but I think it is one of the first things that will be addressed in season 3.


I still believe that the threatening TTA vdeos are for the most part directed toward Alex and that the videos directed toward Jay are either guiding or warning. The fact that Alex confirmed that he keeps up to date with Jays entries seems to make this more plausible in my mind. While I'm on the subject, I find it highly likely that Alex was injured during the gun debacle with Tim considering the Timeline proximity of Entry 52 and Fragments. This would mean that Alex is still alive. In fact, I'm gunna outright state that Fragments proves without a doubt in my mind that Alex is alive considering the obvious direction toward Alex and tone of the response.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:24 pm
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Mariolee
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 		I haven't read any of the responses to the thread, but I have a few problems I have with this:
Quote:
"Well Jay gives us the answer - it is possible it was removed later. The implication is of course that they were removed by Alex, and indeed that is the only viable solution. Why, then, would Alex remove them? Perhaps for the same reason he hides tapes? It is not too much of a stretch to imagine Alex shouting something along the lines of "LEAVE ME ALONE, I'M DONE WITH YOU" or something to that effect as the Operator continues to stalk him. And that is why Alex removed the audio - he did not want to be heard saying those things because, like the hidden tapes, they are incriminating. "

You totally just pulled this out of your butt. There's no way to prove whatever he said, and you're simply filling his mouth with words that would support your theory? Who's to say that Alex didn't say, "I'm a big farty-Mcpooperson!!!"
Quote:
"The events of the missing seventh month are all set about by one of the member of ToTheArk placing Alex's camera with the Operator tape inside it inside Alex's closet, with the intention of having the Operator do to Alex what he had done to the ToTheArk members"

We still have no idea about the validity of this. Who knows if one of the totheark members planted it there, or if the camera was the catalyst for the Operator returning at all? The basis for this theory is shaky at best.
Quote:
"This is quite deliberate. Alex knew that Jay would take a walk, and the Operator was ready for Jay. Unfortunately, Jay apparently can run quickly, and Jay was not successfully captured - his camera was left behind, however. In Entry #42, we see Alex show up and he is very much upset at Jay - but not for being stupid and encountering the Operator; rather, for getting away. "

Alex exclaims to Jay in an exasperated and surprised tone "Jay!? What the hell are you doing out here?" He then asks Jay later, "He's in there?" He seems to be surprised that Jay did something as stupid as that. Based on his words and his tone, and taking Occam's Razor, Alex seems to be very much upset at Jay for being stupid. Alex may very well have been trying to kill Jay himself, but either way, Jay didn't want to go back in there. It doesn't seem as if Alex somehow knew that Jay would go in there by himself to be captured by the Operator, since he didn't even know the Operator was in there.
Quote:
"In Entry #41, Hoody returns Jay's camera to his car. Hey, this sounds familiar... didn't a TTA member do this earlier? Oh yeah! And what was his goal? To pass the Operator onto Alex as retribution? Oh yeah! So then what could be Hoody's goal in returning Jay's now-100%-more-Operator camera?
Hoody was trying to pass the Operator onto Jay, to rid Alex of his bodyguard."

Combined with my earlier point that we don't even know if that was a TTA member who put the camera in there, this is a theory built on a theory with shaky evidence, which obviously doesn't make for a good theory.
Quote:
"Entry #48 and Entry #49 should really be looked at as a single entry, as Entry #48 is mostly build up to the major events of #49. What #49 shows us is the apex of Alex's insanity - he murders a man in a white shirt, affectionately known as Bruce, for no reason. Later, the Operator shows up and then teleports away, the body leaving with him. This is further proof for some of my previous conjecture, that the Operator needs corpses, needs dead people - for what purpose I cannot yet say - and Alex is providing them for him. Alex knew Jay was following him, and likely thought that Bruce WAS Jay - there was not a moment's hesitation before Alex charged and killed the poor man. At any rate - these entries show that Alex is killing people for the Operator's benefit. "

Again, there is a lot of conjecture here that makes it seem like you're saying "This, this, and this happened, SO OBVIOUSLY this must be this," without actually giving a reason as to why the Operator needs dead people is the obvious conclusion, when it may be perhaps that Alex just wants to tie up another loose end. Of course, it could go either way in our theories, but I'm just saying that that doesn't have to be the only logical conclusion. We also don't know if Alex was expecting it to be Jay or not. I mean, I'm pretty sure he realized before killing Bruce that that wasn't Jay.
Quote:
"This is huge. The fired gunshot is definitely not Tim, as we see him alive later - indicating that it is almost certainly Alex who got shot. Alex died from that gunshot wound, be it slowly or immediately, he died, and Tim knows it. TTA succeeded in their quest to kill Alex Kralie, so that later Tim can finally put everything behind him, knowing that the man who caused him so much torment was finally dead. "

Of course the intent is to make us believe that Alex died. But that doesn't have to be the case, as Troy, Tim, and Joseph are clever film students who know better than that. It could be entirely possible that no one got shot. Also remember that we have a whole season to go, and it is, in my honest opinion, very improbable that they won't bring Alex back. Of course, he could be dead, but in my opinion it just doesn't seem like they would kill off the main character like that.
Quote:
"Simple - Jay has evidence that Tim killed Alex. Tim, for obvious reasons, does not want that evidence to get out, so he attacks Jay in an effort to get the tapes from him. Now, Tim obviously failed - so why would he stop? He didn't stop. He changed tactics. After #33, at the time a present day entry, TTA began making video responses to Jay's videos. ONLY AFTER Tim had failed to steal the tapes from Jay. This is far too strong to be a coincidence - Tim fails, TTA begins posting responses to dissuade Jay. "

I'm assuming the obvious reasons are that Tim doesn't want to be arrested for murder. Well for one, Alex tried to kill innocent people, so Tim's attack could be legally justified as protection or self-defense. It wouldn't be that difficult of a court hearing. It could be that Time simply wanted to get Troy away from the hotel for some reason, and so he scared him away, and the video responses were just encouragement from Tim to finish the tapes to see why Alex is evil.
Quote:
"There still exists the possibility that Entry #29 was supposed to be connected to Entry #49, but continuity has made it difficult to reconcile the two events. "

Honestly, I think this is what was supposed to happen, as it was all set out from there, but Troy seemed to dismiss it. This would be a great thing to ask Troy one day.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:30 pm
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Xicon
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Quote:
You totally just pulled this out of your butt. There's no way to prove whatever he said, and you're simply filling his mouth with words that would support your theory? Who's to say that Alex didn't say, "I'm a big farty-Mcpooperson!!!"


My apologies, next time I'll upload the missing audio to support the theory.

Seriously though, there is absolutely no way of knowing what was said in the missing audio. We DO, however, know that Alex was trying to hide some evidence, as #22 and #51 show us. We DO know that the Operator's presence never erases the audio EXCEPT in those early tapes. Therefore it is NOT a stretch and it DOES logically follow that Alex removed the audio, especially given that Jay mentioned that possibility, AND that he removed it to cover up evidence.

There is no solid evidence supporting it, but there is valid logical conjecture supporting it.

Quote:
We still have no idea about the validity of this. Who knows if one of the totheark members planted it there, or if the camera was the catalyst for the Operator returning at all? The basis for this theory is shaky at best.


Based on the differences in how the camera was handled it can be assumed that different people are operating the camera than typically. This is a theory that has been tossed around several times, and it does make sense. Again - just because we don't have evidence doesn't mean that it can't be used as a theory.

Quote:
Again, there is a lot of conjecture here that makes it seem like you're saying "This, this, and this happened, SO OBVIOUSLY this must be this," without actually giving a reason as to why the Operator needs dead people is the obvious conclusion, when it may be perhaps that Alex just wants to tie up another loose end. Of course, it could go either way in our theories, but I'm just saying that that doesn't have to be the only logical conclusion. We also don't know if Alex was expecting it to be Jay or not. I mean, I'm pretty sure he realized before killing Bruce that that wasn't Jay.


I'm noticing a trend where you keep saying that "we don't know". And I know that we don't know. If we knew, why the hell would I be posting this?

Alex likely thought it was Jay because he yells "I TOLD YOU NOT TO FOLLOW ME". We don't know the Operator's motives, but because he took away the body it logical follows that he has some need or desire for corpses.

Quote:
Of course the intent is to make us believe that Alex died. But that doesn't have to be the case, as Troy, Tim, and Joseph are clever film students who know better than that. It could be entirely possible that no one got shot. Also remember that we have a whole season to go, and it is, in my honest opinion, very improbable that they won't bring Alex back. Of course, he could be dead, but in my opinion it just doesn't seem like they would kill off the main character like that.


Only a single shot was fired. If Alex and Tim are fighting to the death, then why would only a single shot be fired if nobody was hit the first time? He definitely had more than one bullet - otherwise he could only have killed either Jay or Jessica, but he clearly planned to kill both (credit to Azog over on Interplosion for this observation). Your thoughts on how the series would send off Alex are OOG considerations that cannot be considered as evidence for an IG explanation.

In the future, constructive criticism is welcome, but you do not need to be so adversarial about it. Further, saying that we don't know a lot of things is not adequate refutation, as this entire theory basically amounts to a lot of structured conjecture with logic, which is all anybody can do at this point. If there is specific IG evidence to suggest otherwise, then that is fine, but a lack of evidence beyond conjecture and conflicting conjecture do not disprove anything.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:44 pm
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Lookbehindyou
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 		Overall, an interesting theory. One thing I have been thinking and I have not seen it mentioned anywhere else (but please point it out if it has), is that what if Alex shot Masky and there really are twins? Alex would still be alive and the person we think is Tim could be someone completely different, and Masky could be the one who is dead or wounded. I could be way off base here, but these were my thoughts.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:54 pm
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pravado
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 		i think the operator went straight for jay becuase

also think about this: the operator or alex hasn't bothered jay in over 9 months. tim is walking on the street all normal. totheark is the only one still interacting with jay in present day. it would appear that slendy is long gone out of the picture by now, but this could just be due to the long time it took to shoot all the entries.

i still think alex purposely walked into slendy in 43 to be mindwiped himself willingly.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:59 pm
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ALEXGORDON
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 		Does it hold any significance that Jay clearly teleported when he was running away from Tim back at the hotel? When he exited his hotel room door into the hall way, he was suddenly much further down the hall than his room usually is.

If we assume that The Operator caused the teleportation, then doesn't that support the theory that Tim was trying to rush Jay out of the hotel? As the teleporting would be enough of a hint to the viewer that he is present.

Or we can assume that TTA have some weird supernatural powers, and the teleporting we saw back at the old house and here was caused by him. Maybe that was just his way of, again, rushing Jay out of the hotel?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:56 pm
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pravado
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 		it could just be that they had to rent another room since it was shot later... i wish in the s2 dvd they explain everything that shouldn't be considered canon due to limitations with filming

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:29 pm
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Xicon
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ALEXGORDON wrote:
Does it hold any significance that Jay clearly teleported when he was running away from Tim back at the hotel? When he exited his hotel room door into the hall way, he was suddenly much further down the hall than his room usually is.

If we assume that The Operator caused the teleportation, then doesn't that support the theory that Tim was trying to rush Jay out of the hotel? As the teleporting would be enough of a hint to the viewer that he is present.

Or we can assume that TTA have some weird supernatural powers, and the teleporting we saw back at the old house and here was caused by him. Maybe that was just his way of, again, rushing Jay out of the hotel?


It doesn't look like he teleported at all there, there's just a video glitch (not the usual Operator distortion either) as he runs down the hall.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:33 pm
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loboguerrero
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Xicon wrote:
ALEXGORDON wrote:
Does it hold any significance that Jay clearly teleported when he was running away from Tim back at the hotel? When he exited his hotel room door into the hall way, he was suddenly much further down the hall than his room usually is.

If we assume that The Operator caused the teleportation, then doesn't that support the theory that Tim was trying to rush Jay out of the hotel? As the teleporting would be enough of a hint to the viewer that he is present.

Or we can assume that TTA have some weird supernatural powers, and the teleporting we saw back at the old house and here was caused by him. Maybe that was just his way of, again, rushing Jay out of the hotel?


It doesn't look like he teleported at all there, there's just a video glitch (not the usual Operator distortion either) as he runs down the hall.


http://forums.unfiction.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=798652#798652

That post explains it, but it's pretty clear that there's some teleportation there. Whether that's IG or OOG is unknown though.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:52 pm
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loboguerrero
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ALEXGORDON wrote:
Yeah, I don't like the idea of Alex being dead either. I was thinking that the gunshot was a miss and The Operator saved Alex at the last second, then went to Jay and Jessica's rooms and not necessarily attacked, but wiped their memories clean. Why? Because, let's suppose that you're right and The Operator, for whatever reason, needs someone else to do the killing for him. Alex is his only hope for that, and Jay seeing Alex as a friend rather than an enemy would make Jay and Jessica so much easier to dispose of.


But if this were the case, and the Operator mind-wiped them so that Alex could kill them later, then why has Jay had no encounters with Alex since waking up from the hotel?

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:55 pm
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