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 Forum index » Meta » General META Discussion
ambition and fracture in ARGs
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danteIL
Unfictologist


Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1990

 		ambition and fracture in ARGs
Warning, this is going to be more of a sketchy outline of some recent thoughts having rather than any deep analysis with lots o' data to back everything up. That's what the internet is for though, right?

In recent months I have found myself pretty much only surfing through the surface of unforums, dipping into threads here and there. What I've encountered hasn't really caught my interest in any real way. I don't want to sound like one of those old fogies lamenting the way things are now compared to how they used to be, but: I lament the way things are compared to how they used to be, at least in my perception.

I realize that ARGs are part of a still-young genre, and that any genre, especially one that is as loosely centralized as this one, is going to change and shift over time. It has seemed to me, however -- at least from the representation that I've seen here on unforums -- that the current state of the ARG world is characterized by two things: 1) fracture and (to a lesser extent, because there are always exceptions) 2) a lack of ambition.

Boom, there goes the dynamite.

That is, what I see (from the outside, as a non-currently-active player of, well, anything) is a lot (a lot!) of smaller games and experiences and transmedia-whatnot, but not much in the way of larger scale immersive narrative worlds that are trying to interactively engage a diverse audience of players. To some extent, this is fine -- not every game has to be the second coming of I Love Bees -- but it makes me wonder where this kind of game went. Am I missing them somehow? Are they going under different guises? Granted, this kind of ambitious game is exceedingly hard to pull off and even harder to pull off well. Grassroots games are almost necessarily limited in scope, and the entities with the resources and energy to pull off the big large-scale ARGarama seem to be focusing on marketing-heavy IPs where the 'game' is secondary to the IP (i.e., not much of an interactive narrative experience beyond maybe some in-person events with swag). Or they are highly-focused or short-term experiences closely tied to a very particular goal (e.g., the Smithsonian ARGs, which seem pretty cool). Again, I could be wrong on this -- perhaps I'm missing some obvious exceptions to my impressions.

Hand in hand with these observations is the feeling that things have gotten a lot more fractured. Admittedly 'fractured' is a negative way of putting it. Positive spins might include "diverse" and "multifarious." But my point is this (old fogey alert): one used to be able to come to Unforums and perhaps a couple of other sites and really get a sense of what games were currently being played and what they each were like to some degree, even as an outside observer. It really gave you a sense of what was currently exciting in the ARG world and what kinds of ideas and techniques were being experimented with. This is no longer possible -- with lots of smaller ARG-like experiences, many of which are happening and emerging through other outlets, it would be impossible for any one centralized place to keep track of everything. As a consequence, I have the sense that the "community" has spread out more as it's gotten larger, but as a result it has also necessarily become more diffuse and less cohesive. This isn't all bad, and is probably preferable to an insular circle of people making games for each other that no one else cares about Smile But, when every media company under the sun is crowing about their "alternative reality game" which is really just a website and a spooky video, the feeling of dilution really does come through.

So like I said, I just wanted to share some recent thoughts without any real coherent analysis. That is, I haven't gone through and catalogued every ARG that has been active in the past 6 months and tried to carry out some kind of multidimensional dissection of what's out there. I've always been just a player -- I never had any desire to be a puppetmaster -- and these are some impressions from that player perspective. This isn't intended to be an overly negative set of observations, although I understand that it's framed that way. Maybe this simply the more 'mature' post-larval stage of whatever ARGs have become/are becoming?

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:11 am
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notgordian
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Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 1383
Location: Philly

 		I can't really dispute your first point, and even agree with it to a certain extent (although I don't particularly see it as a bad thing -- we've essentially moved past the point where you're forced to be a fan of "television" and you can be a fan of "dramas" or "comedies" instead).

As a counter-point to your second point, I'd like to put forward two currently-running games that buck the ambitiousness trend you're concerned about.

The first bears the trappings of your traditional ARGs from days gone by -- and that's the Dexter ARG. Its update/release schedule is actually much more ambitious than with I Love Bees (they're releasing substantive and significant content every weekday across a broad range of media with some truly innovative puzzles) -- the reason you might have missed this is the discussion and analysis is largely taking place on the serialhuntress.com forums.

The second goes more directly to your ambitiousness comment, and that's We Lost Our Gold. It may not be your traditional ARG, but the guys behind it are ambitious as heck (putting $10k on the line in addition to production costs as an independent company) and the finished product is both polished and interactive.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:11 pm
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catherwood
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee

Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 4109
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
notgordian wrote:
...the Dexter ARG... and We Lost Our Gold...

I'm enjoying the videos of those pirate puppets, not as an ARG nor as a puzzle trail, but simply for the entertainment value. Yes, they have Facebook and Twitter, but I don't feel that they have created an alternate universe for me to explore. I cannot dig (figuratively!) anywhere to discover secrets about their earlier lives or adventures. They'am what they'am.

As for Dexter, well, I don't watch the show. I am not participating in their "extended reality" so I cannot comment on whether they have built out a world for me to explore, beyond the boundaries of the world presented on the television.

My sense from what dante is trying to say is that he misses the opportunity to step across a threshold into uncharted waters. That's what the "old school ARG" meant to me. These days, I get my archaeology fix from virtual worlds of the MMO variety, and my collaborative fix from puzzle hunts. Is that a symptom of fracturing?

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:38 am
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notgordian
Unfictologist


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 1383
Location: Philly

 		For the Dexter ARG, there's very little relation between ARG-world and show-world, with the exception of theme (serial killers in both) and a brief mention/inclusion of Masuka. So yeah, it's definitely world-building.

I'll concede that We Lost Our Gold doesn't rise to that level of interactivity/worldbuilding (although they're still very active in engaging the audience), but hold that the ambitiousness is still there. If the goal is to step out into uncharted waters, that's a hard benchmark to pin down. Granted there are some derivative games out there, but as people are experimenting with new forms, there's a lot of innovation going on both in story mechanics and genres. This doesn't always come out through snapshot views, but I'd feel comfortable pitting the last six months of games against a similar period in the past.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:32 am
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MageSteff
Pretty talky there aintcha, Talky?


Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 2716
Location: State of Denial

 		Re: ambition and fracture in ARGs
danteIL wrote:
-- not every game has to be the second coming of I Love Bees -- but it makes me wonder where this kind of game went. Am I missing them somehow? Are they going under different guises? Granted, this kind of ambitious game is exceedingly hard to pull off and even harder to pull off well.


With a few notable exceptions that pulled in players that were not originally part of the ARG community (namely Metacortechs that pulled in Matrix fans), ILB was really the first of its kind to generate that LARGE a group showing up at various in game live events, which was followed by Last Call Poker (both of which were sponsored by corporations to generate noise for various products).

Where did this kind of game go? Mainly this kind of game is still in development - Metacortechs was a grassroots game, ILB and Last Call Poker were sponsored.

Grassroots games can generate the same level of interest, but they have a smaller starter community - ARG community regulars - where sponsored games have a tie in with a larger community - video game related, movie related, celebrity related - and can advertise on a larger scale than grassroots generally can.

There is also a difference in how much time either group - grassroots or sponsored - can put into a game. Sponsored games generally have a team (or a part of a team) that are paid full time to do nothing but work on a game, they have the funding to buy all the resources they need to put together a large amount of things, be it interaction, swag, location events. Grassroots creators generally are working on a shoestring budget, and a shoestring amount of time they can dedicate to a game i.e. we have to work and sleep sometimes.

Grassroots games don't have any less of an impact on the players than sponsored games do, even if the storyline is shorter in duration or limited in scope, swag, interaction.

Speaking only for myself, I found that when there were so many players involved, especially when there is a large influx of those who are new to the community, because of the signal-to-noise ration. Too much general commenting and a very small percentage of new/useful information. In 2002 I was able to read or scan through each new thread on the forum in a few hours, now I have to pick and choose where I spend my time, as I don't have enough to go through every thread anymore. It has become harder for me to be able to identify those games which might have the "WOW" factor I am looking for. It's not a lack of ambition, it's an overload of information that is preventing me from finding those rare gems.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:14 am
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thebruce
Dances With Wikis


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 6899
Location: Kitchener, Ontario

 		Re: ambition and fracture in ARGs
MageSteff wrote:
Speaking only for myself, I found that when there were so many players involved, especially when there is a large influx of those who are new to the community, because of the signal-to-noise ration. Too much general commenting and a very small percentage of new/useful information. In 2002 I was able to read or scan through each new thread on the forum in a few hours, now I have to pick and choose where I spend my time, as I don't have enough to go through every thread anymore. It has become harder for me to be able to identify those games which might have the "WOW" factor I am looking for. It's not a lack of ambition, it's an overload of information that is preventing me from finding those rare gems.


I think what people are pining for (a wish that's been mentioned a few times) is a source for quick updates and news for stuff that's happening in ARG-land, for precisely the reason you say - the signal to noise ratio is so high now that it's hard to keep up with everything let alone find one or two things you're really interested in from the beginning.

In doing a bit of my daily browsing today, I kind of realized that what we're looking for is sort of along the lines of what halo.bungie.org does with their front page news feed. Primarily the admins/moderators will post interesting items that are posted in their forums - not necessarily huge news items, but rather than doing all the research and reporting themselves, they pick out items their community posts in the forums, linking to it and briefly summarizing it in a paragraph for the public. They tweet the updates as well, and really only do it in periodic updates of 5-10 items on avg.

1) it keeps people up to date who don't have time to peruse the expansive and noisy forums
2) it's an entry point for people to check out the forum and community for more details
3) it cuts out all the noise of chatter and discussion, leading straight to the meat
4) it's easier to manage a single news stream of top items (though does require ideally a few people at least to browse the forum regularly making note of interesting info to promote to a news item)

It's almost like - if there are a group of people at UF who can form a news update stream of quick, simple posts relating to interesting stuff happening anywhere on UF (or other news sites), that could be something that helps keep people informed. Rather than describing campaigns or games or ARGs with each item, it's just a bunch of "so and so just reported this and this cool thing just happened - go check it out, here(link)"

AFAIK, the ARG genre doesn't have a quick-update stream like that.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:58 pm
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Sunburned Goose
Greenhorn

Joined: 25 Apr 2009
Posts: 8

 		Re: ambition and fracture in ARGs
thebruce wrote:
AFAIK, the ARG genre doesn't have a quick-update stream like that.


If you would host a 'micro-news' site like HBO, Joystiq, Kotaku around the goings on in the ARG world, I'd subscribe to the RSS feeds. Consolidation around a site, where people bring YOU the news so they get the attribution is the carrot that keeps your content fresh.
Goose.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:59 pm
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danteIL
Unfictologist


Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1990

 		Thanks for the responses to my inchoate opening thoughts. I had hoped to spur more discussion, although perhaps that is symptomatic of the very point I was trying to make.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:16 pm
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Sunburned Goose
Greenhorn

Joined: 25 Apr 2009
Posts: 8

 		Activity...
danteIL wrote:
Thanks for the responses to my inchoate opening thoughts. I had hoped to spur more discussion, although perhaps that is symptomatic of the very point I was trying to make.


Yea, I posted two writeups for the Halo Themed ARG's, and with 50+ views, I get no messages, not even "Nice work".

Lot's of lurkers or bots.
Goose.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:59 pm
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Robodashy
Boot

Joined: 14 Feb 2011
Posts: 54
Location: I come from a land down under

 		 Hi everybody
First post
Hey there everyone. Robodashy here, long time lurker - first time poster. Just wanted to say 2 things (or I'd still be lurkin' in the shadows):
1: great topic. Definitely requires more discussion. I mean, I'm new to this whole ARG in many sense of the word - but even I can see a lot has changed community wise (I'll jump back into conversation about this later, but posting from the iPhone is frustrating).
2: the news ticker / quick updates - GREAT idea. Even if it was sectioned into different ARG's with a quick "around the traps" update on each.

Just some quick thoughts guys. Get my new PC on Thursday so will be a lot more active after that. Thanks

Note: example of how bad iPhone posting is - I set this up 10+ hours ago and it flat out refused to submit. *sigh*

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:56 pm
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knarF
Veteran


Joined: 02 Feb 2011
Posts: 85
Location: Midlands UK

 		Well i'm very new to the ARG culture, i can certainly see what you're getting at although i think some smaller games are pretty cool.

How about people here set up a blog?
Anyone can create a blogspot account, add a few admins in there and we just post up news that we think people could be interested in, cutting the crap so people don't have to browse pages upon pages of posts to find anything interesting. I'm more than happy to start this if anyone else is willing to help, since i'm not that knowledgeable on ARGs yet.

What do you guys think?

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:04 am
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distilled
Unfettered


Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 732
Location: Midlands, UK
knarF wrote:
Well i'm very new to the ARG culture, i can certainly see what you're getting at although i think some smaller games are pretty cool.

How about people here set up a blog?
Anyone can create a blogspot account, add a few admins in there and we just post up news that we think people could be interested in, cutting the crap so people don't have to browse pages upon pages of posts to find anything interesting. I'm more than happy to start this if anyone else is willing to help, since i'm not that knowledgeable on ARGs yet.

What do you guys think?


Actually, this is similar to what I've been trying to do for a while. I had the idea that each week I could get someone in to talk about and ARG they are involved in. That way each week people could head over to my blog and learn about a game from scratch, with all the relavent info right there and laid out for them.

I've had difficulty getting people involved. I had time2pwnu write a good Experience of Evil summary for me a while back, but short of that its really squeezing the content out of people. If you'd like to help out, let me know, I know you're involved in a good number of the recently started games.

Theres a link in my sig to the thread in which I go into more detail.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:26 am
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knarF
Veteran


Joined: 02 Feb 2011
Posts: 85
Location: Midlands UK

 		I have looked at your site before actually, it's really good.

I'd love to, but i don't feel i'm much of an AGR player yet, maybe when i've actually seen a couple games through from beginning to end i'd love to.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:44 am
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thebruce
Dances With Wikis


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 6899
Location: Kitchener, Ontario

 		People have tried to create useful news reporting resources before, but I think there's just a natural barrier to the kind of reporting we're hoping for. Right now one of the best sources is of course http://www.argn.com - but obviously not everything one might hope to see is reported. I think the problem is just that having a single news source cover everything is next to impossible, in a social, dramatically expanding, community-oriented genre.

News here is either filtered through topically focused sites, or it's pulled by people who are interested and look for news - the best example here being the News & Rumours forum. It's more focused on discussion, but chances are someone will mention there anything even somewhat ARG-y or viral or even puzzley.

The landscape's always changing... at one point there was a syndicated RSS feed of multiple news sources, and there's a website somewhere (I can't for the life of me remember its URL) that even syndicates this forum's post feed onto a web page.

I think the best resources (for quantity) in this context are the ones that are automated to some degree, and perhaps intelligently filtered or categorized, because there's simply just so much happening, whether minor events in games already running, mysterious trailheads, or news and rumours about upcoming campaigns.

I'd say, if you're looking to set up an ARG news source, be topical and relevant to the people for whom you're hoping to provide it. We certainly need more news sources though! It's not easy keeping up with everything and reporting everything, even with a team like ARGN's.

OTOH - if you're looking to write articles and report news, you could contact ARGN (Michael Andersen) and ask about joining the team Smile They're always looking for more writers.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:54 am
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catherwood
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee

Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 4109
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
thebruce wrote:
... at one point there was a syndicated RSS feed of multiple news sources, and there's a website somewhere (I can't for the life of me remember its URL) that even syndicates this forum's post feed onto a web page.

you probably are thinking of http://isthisarg.org/

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:00 pm
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