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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
[VIDEO] Entry #64
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Toadbert
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 		I believe Alex tried to subconsciously egg Jay on into going to the end. He knew Jay wouldn't do what he told him, so Jay would walk on through and run right into the Operator.

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:34 pm
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Jamocha101
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Camero wrote:
I'm wondering now about Alex asking them to leave. On the surface of it, it seems like Alex was trying to "save" our heroes from the Operator, which lends some credence to the whole "Alex is just an Operator puppet" thing. However, let's consider a few points.

First, Tim and Jay were directly at the end of the tunnel, and the Operator shows up within seconds. Even if they left immediately, there would have been no time to escape. Furthermore, given the length of the tunnel, Alex could only have known that they were in the tunnel by SEEING them enter it. Thus it seems that he waited until the last possible moment to tell them.

Secondly, and more importantly, we know Alex is a master of misdirection and deception. He selectively gives Jay season 1 tapes that make him seem like a victim of the Operator rather than a puppet/ally figure, even filming an entirely fabricated sequence where he says he has no idea what happened to Seth, Tim, etc.

So, it seems that the goal here is to make Jay think the other end of this tunnel is dangerous, and possibly that Alex is trying to be on his side. I'm not buying it.


Maybe Alex didn't wait until the last minute, so much as notice a hesitation and tried to push things along so that our protagonists would run into our tall friend for (?) reasons. (Just kill them? Get them under Slender Hypnosis? What is the motive?) Or Jay was right and there was something he didn't want them to see; he didn't necessarily have to "wait until the last minute," so much as observe them at a delayed point and took the quickest (and perhaps most desperate) course of action to turn them around. Albeit I guess this is less likely if the Operator was going to show up anyway, and I get the feeling that any appearance of aforesaid Operator are preconceived.

Yeah I really dunno.

[quote="Jingleman"]
pravado wrote:


So, three questions, then: who causes the camera-breaking distortion as Hoody, which times should it be attributed to Hoody, and can anyone other than Hoody and the Operator do it?


But I'm wondering what it is about the Operator (and possibly Hoody) that causes the snowiness in the first place--I'm most willing to believe that it's solely the former who causes it, but I doubt that Hoody has the excuse of being a paranormal figure. For a long time, I had subscribed to the possibility that "Slendy Particles" (for lack of a better term), can "rub off" on people that hang around him enough, which would at least account for any time it may have happened with Alex. Masy and Hoody? No idea.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:40 pm
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Jingleman
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Jamocha101 wrote:
Jingleman wrote:
So, three questions, then: who causes the camera-breaking distortion as Hoody, which times should it be attributed to Hoody, and can anyone other than Hoody and the Operator do it?


But I'm wondering what it is about the Operator (and possibly Hoody) that causes the snowiness in the first place--I'm most willing to believe that it's solely the former who causes it, but I doubt that Hoody has the excuse of being a paranormal figure. For a long time, I had subscribed to the possibility that "Slendy Particles" (for lack of a better term), can "rub off" on people that hang around him enough, which would at least account for any time it may have happened with Alex. Masy and Hoody? No idea.

I don't think that the mechanics of it are all that important at this point. Something supernatural is interfering with the video equipment. I like to think of it like the way power lines can interfere with the radio in your car. Getting close to that amount of power can play havoc on the reception. Same with the Operator. There's so much power (of some kind) around him that the more flimsy electronic devices are overwhelmed. I doubt that we're going to get much specific explanation on how it works or why.

It seems pretty well established that certain characters can cause distortion, perhaps to a lesser extent than the Operator. I don't find it hard to believe that a person could have that effect transferred to them. The "how" or "why" may become important later, but for the moment, it makes little difference whether they were "touched' or "marked" or just had him "rub off" on them over time (because all of the characters seem to be more or less in the same boat; there's not much of a "control" sample). All of the characters at this point have been in contact with the Operator, so it's plausible that any of them could have these symptoms.

I would like to know, while we're on the subject, if the Operator is actually intending to affect the video equipment or not. A similar but distinct question is whether the shut-down distortion happens passively or only when the Operator is exerting his power in the area (not necessarily on the camera or cameraman).

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:12 am
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Jamocha101
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 		I guess that sounds about right to me...I at least buy the Operator explanation. But yeah, the fact that some humans cause distortion bewilder me...in the beginning, when I thought that the Operator was controlling Masky (which I still think could be a possibility), I subscribed to the whole "they-were-around-him-enough-so-that-his-skin-cells-were-passed-down-and-thereby-caused-distortion." But yeah, it seems that Masky isn't being controlled by Oppy; Hoody rather, (or he may still be lying and is control of himself, which would account for Hoody's accusations, although that still wouldn't make much sense), so I'm starting to think that everybody who causes the distortion are the people that have had Slendy on their tails since they were children. I don't know exactly why that is, but it seems like there's a correlation.

I haven't read the entire thread, so I haven't seen the speculation (if there was any, hopefully there was), on why the Operator, who we clearly see got Tim for what might be the billionth time, still hasn't eaten him like he has like everybody else. Instead he turned into Masky ended up unconscious in his car. Did Hoody run along and help him by turning him into Masky and then dragged him to his car in the event that he got knocked out? Oooorrrr, did Hoody put a "spell" on Masky that causes him to transform every time the Operator is near? Or has Tim always had this other persona on account of Operator exposure (a theory that I have never and probably will subsribe to)?

I'm just thinking out loud.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:15 am
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Jingleman
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Jamocha101 wrote:
I guess that sounds about right to me...I at least buy the Operator explanation. But yeah, the fact that some humans cause distortion bewilder me...in the beginning, when I thought that the Operator was controlling Masky (which I still think could be a possibility), I subscribed to the whole "they-were-around-him-enough-so-that-his-skin-cells-were-passed-down-and-thereby-caused-distortion." But yeah, it seems that Masky isn't being controlled by Oppy; Hoody rather, (or he may still be lying and is control of himself, which would account for Hoody's accusations, although that still wouldn't make much sense), so I'm starting to think that everybody who causes the distortion are the people that have had Slendy on their tails since they were children. I don't know exactly why that is, but it seems like there's a correlation.

I haven't read the entire thread, so I haven't seen the speculation (if there was any, hopefully there was), on why the Operator, who we clearly see got Tim for what might be the billionth time, still hasn't eaten him like he has like everybody else. Instead he turned into Masky ended up unconscious in his car. Did Hoody run along and help him by turning him into Masky and then dragged him to his car in the event that he got knocked out? Oooorrrr, did Hoody put a "spell" on Masky that causes him to transform every time the Operator is near? Or has Tim always had this other persona on account of Operator exposure (a theory that I have never and probably will subsribe to)?

I'm just thinking out loud.


The characters that are still around (that is, relevant to the story right now), besides Jay, are Tim, Alex, and Jessica, right? Plus whoever TTA is. All three of those known remaining characters have had moments that implied that they've been terrorized by the Operator since childhood (Tim's medical records, Alex's party in 37, Jessica's dreams in season 2). Neither Tim nor Jessica apparently remember it (possibly Alex, either). All of that means that pretty much everybody important may have been stalked since childhood, and any of the others, like Jay, could have been, too, since the memory loss seems like par for the course. The point is that if everybody we know has been stalked since childhood, then it's impossible to know whether the symptoms (like distortion or sickness) comes from that length of time or something else, like a particular act of the Operator, or some shorter length of time like since the original MH shoot, or just any old brief contact with the Operator. When practically everybody correlates to practically everything, it's hard to figure out which correlations are significant.

As for Tim's Operator encounter, I wish we knew enough about the actual disappearances to deduce what's going on here. For all we know, what we saw in 64 was the normal thing that happens. It's conceivable that the others, like Seth, Brian, and Sarah, are running around somewhere in a trance-like state, and Jay could accidentally stumble upon them at any time (not that I believe that). That said, I agree that Tim and Jay do seem to be unique. They haven't disappeared. The "why" and the "how" may or may not be explained.

I don't think that Tim needs Hoody to become Masky. 61/62 implied that the Masky personality can be triggered by the seizures, but we don't know if that's the only way it happens. In any case, I think Hoody manipulates and controls Masky as a master controls his minion, but I don't think that Hoody created the Masky personality, or that he's necessary for it to come out.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:07 pm
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Animal
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 		How do you explain that hole in the ground during the red tower entry (maybe?) that caused the camera distortion.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:14 pm
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Animal wrote:
How do you explain that hole in the ground during the red tower entry (maybe?) that caused the camera distortion.


Yeah, I was just watching season one last night and I was wondering what the significance of the hole is...

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:05 pm
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Jingleman
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Animal wrote:
How do you explain that hole in the ground during the red tower entry (maybe?) that caused the camera distortion.

Well, I don't think that anything about the distortion is very well explained at this point, but here are some ideas about that kind of phantom distortion (you're referring to "Entry #21," which was indeed the red tower entry).

- Somebody else was there. One of the earliest premises established in season one was that the Operator can be anywhere at any time, even when the people involved don't notice him. Early in the series, the distortion was so strongly associated with the Operator that it was taken as evidence that he was present even when he didn't appear on screen. Likewise, Hoody/TTA has often shown us that he can be present and unseen, too, going back to "Exit" and ratcheting up in recent videos. Therefore, I think we can say that either of these characters could plausibly be present at any time, whether we see them or not, and so phantom distortion could be attributed to either one. Maybe Jay strayed too close to a spying Hoody in 21.

- Jay caused it. Jay has displayed at least some symptoms of "slender-sickness," which is another mystery, but it's not out of the question that Jay could generate some of that distortion himself. I thought that there was at least one case where he had a coughing fit accompanied by distortion, but I can't remember which entry or if I'm confusing him with another character. Either way, Jay's had lots of contact with the Operator, Hoody, and Masky, and so it's possible that whatever transferred that supernatural interference to them has also touched Jay. Perhaps it happens when he's in a certain emotional state or frame of mind, or when the Operator is thinking about him, or something else.

-The hole or place itself caused it. If we believe that it is possible for the Operator's distortion effect to be transferred to those who come in contact with him in some way, I don't find it hard to believe that the same could be true of a place or even an item. Since we don't know what the distortion is or what causes it, it's hard to theorize about how that would happen, but the standard theories that ghost believers throw around will do for a placeholder. Maybe the hole is in a place where the Operator did something violent or important, or maybe that clearing holds significance to him, or he'd been there recently, etc.

I guess my overarching point on the distortion is that I don't think that we're going to get much in the way of a technical explanation for how it works. I'm more or less satisfied just saying that it's a supernatural side effect of whatever the Operator is up to, or maybe just his presence. Therefore, I find it entirely plausible that anyone or anything that has had contact with the Operator can cause the distortion under the right circumstances, and I don't find any particular instance all that troubling, because the Operator has been all around all the people and locations in the series. I would like some clarity on whether it is an active or passive effect, which may be different for the Operator than it is for others, but I doubt that we'll learn even that much for certain.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:06 pm
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TheManPF
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 		I just read something about the entry in a certain fb page, and I think this could explain a lot of things:

Firstly, it looks like Tim has some sort of sickness related to The Operator, which is triggered when he starts to cough violently and doesn't take his pills. Maybe this kind of reaction happens only when something dangerous is around him and he starts coughing automatically when this happens, turning him into "Masky", which would be something like a protected state. This would explain why the camera gets distorted when Masky is around.
In this state, Tim is inmune to the actions of TO, or maybe this state causes TO to get scared of him in some way, and he doesn't attack him. Also, it looks like whoever is near Tim when he's in his "Masky" state gets protected too, so that would explain why Jay didn't get attacked by TO when he chased Masky to the other end of the tunnel in entry #50. Masky was near, so that probably made Jay invulnerable too, and Masky wanted him to see something on the other side of the tunnel, but Jay didn't realize it.
So, what Hoody wanted was Masky to lead Jay to the other side of the tunnel again to find the truth, so that's why in "entry" Hoody took his pills and made Tim turn into Masky again. Masky when to Rosswood, and Hoody wanted Jay to follow him to the other side of the tunnel. When Jay got there, he got knocked out by Masky, then Hoody led them both to the shack on the other side of the tunnel. This would explain why they didn't find the shack in entry #64, because it was actually on the other side where they couldn't reach.
They woke up in the shack because Hoody wanted them to see something but, again, they didn't realize. So they went back a few days later and they couldn't reach the other side of the tunnel because TO attacked them and Tim wasn't protected.
All of this means that something very important is on the other side, and Jay got there twice but he didn't realize there was something there, and if he goes alone he gets attacked, so the best thing to do would be Jay going through the tunnel, not with Tim, but with Masky, who is the protector.

I'm sorry if something like this has been mentioned before, I just couldn't read everything in this topic. Sorry if my english is too crappy too.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:50 pm
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Animal
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 		This theory is interesting. I actually like it

The big question is why is he protected from TO? (the pills perhaps? I believe that has been suggested)

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:25 pm
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Jingleman
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 		I don't buy it. If Masky is invulnerable or "protected," then why did he and Hoody get scared off when they attacked Alex and (presumably) the Operator showed up? Masky has been physically harmed a number of times. If he's only protected from the Operator, then Alex and his rock seem more dangerous than the Operator himself, which would be lame. If anything, I think the Masky personality is a run-of-the-mill psychological defense mechanism, not a ward against any supernatural or physical threat.

Now, it certainly seems that Masky is the result of Operator contact with Tim, and we don't know if it was done to him intentionally or as some sort of passive influence or spontaneous event. The seizures are connected, too, and therefore the anti-seizure meds appear to mitigate his symptoms, but the extent to which they help or the seizures are intertwined in the first place is up for debate.

64 did a lot to imply that there is something important just on the other side of that Tunnel, but that doesn't necessarily jive with all the previous visits. I think that those discrepancies can be cleared up by simply suggesting that whatever it is that is important is through the Tunnel, yes, but not right at the end, rather, a good ways farther, even miles, but perhaps with the geography creating a choke point at the Tunnel such that one would have to go through it to get to the important location. That way, there can be something "on the other side" of the Tunnel, but it is possible that one could either encounter the Operator in the Tunnel or cross through it without seeing anything obvious.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:14 am
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Animal
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 		Or a simpler explanation, something is important there now that perhaps wasn't before

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:21 am
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Jingleman
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Animal wrote:
Or a simpler explanation, something is important there now that perhaps wasn't before

Yes, that could work, too. One wonders, though, why Alex would have been poking around there if it wasn't important at the time. That is, why would Alex make the earliest known visits to the Tunnel if there was nothing there of interest? It would be a little weird if that location was insignificant then but critical now, begging the question, what changed? Further, Alex murdered "Bruce," saying something like, "I told you not to follow me!" In light of the present video, that seems like someone defending something. Now, if the important item was added recently, when?

I find it easier to account for everything if the important thing is just far off, unless I've forgotten something somewhere, but if others feel that a recent change at the Tunnel explains it better, then I'm open to the idea.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:42 am
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Animal
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Jingleman wrote:
Animal wrote:
Or a simpler explanation, something is important there now that perhaps wasn't before

Yes, that could work, too. One wonders, though, why Alex would have been poking around there if it wasn't important at the time. That is, why would Alex make the earliest known visits to the Tunnel if there was nothing there of interest? It would be a little weird if that location was insignificant then but critical now, begging the question, what changed? Further, Alex murdered "Bruce," saying something like, "I told you not to follow me!" In light of the present video, that seems like someone defending something. Now, if the important item was added recently, when?

I find it easier to account for everything if the important thing is just far off, unless I've forgotten something somewhere, but if others feel that a recent change at the Tunnel explains it better, then I'm open to the idea.


Hmm alternative solution, Alex wasn't there when jay and masky made it to the other side of the tunnel, so no operator. Alex was present this time, and he summoned the operator? This could rationalize the off in the distance theory I agree. The inconsistency makes it complicated

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:26 am
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Jingleman
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Animal wrote:
Jingleman wrote:
Animal wrote:
Or a simpler explanation, something is important there now that perhaps wasn't before

Yes, that could work, too. One wonders, though, why Alex would have been poking around there if it wasn't important at the time. That is, why would Alex make the earliest known visits to the Tunnel if there was nothing there of interest? It would be a little weird if that location was insignificant then but critical now, begging the question, what changed? Further, Alex murdered "Bruce," saying something like, "I told you not to follow me!" In light of the present video, that seems like someone defending something. Now, if the important item was added recently, when?

I find it easier to account for everything if the important thing is just far off, unless I've forgotten something somewhere, but if others feel that a recent change at the Tunnel explains it better, then I'm open to the idea.


Hmm alternative solution, Alex wasn't there when jay and masky made it to the other side of the tunnel, so no operator. Alex was present this time, and he summoned the operator? This could rationalize the off in the distance theory I agree. The inconsistency makes it complicated

I think your line of reasoning here is designed to get to the heart of why the Operator shows up at the Tunnel sometimes, but not always, right? You're right that that is a complex issue. I don't know. Lots of possible explanations. If the Important Thing at the End of the Tunnel TM is actually some distance off, then maybe the Operator is content to patrol elsewhere and not always cut people off at the Tunnel. Or, Masky chose that moment for a visit under the orders of TTA, who saw an opening (because TTA always knows more about what's happening than anyone, and he seems to be Masky's master).

Really, without knowing what's back there, it's hard to say why the Operator reacts the way he does to people approaching the Tunnel, when he reacts at all. There are infinite possibilities and little evidence to temper the wild speculation. We don't even know for sure that he's "defending" anything. I'm content just to say that the Operator's intentions are unknown at this point, and he shows up there when it serves his purposes, whatever those are. That's why I think we can make more progress, for the moment, by focusing on why they didn't see anything when they got to the other side (which is what they themselves were debating just before the attack).

In any case, I don't think that the Alex/Operator correlation will get us very far. We've seen, or heard Jay mention, Alex hanging around the Tunnel without Operator sightings. Plus, Alex doesn't seem to be necessary for the Operator to show up at other places. So, while they might be "allies" in some sense, I don't think that Alex needed to be there for 64 to happen as it did.

That brings me back to an earlier question that I had about 64: out of the blue, Alex called at a particularly significant moment, right? So did he know they were in the Tunnel because he was there before they arrived, and was alerted to the intrusion, or had he been stalking them before that, following them around in Rosswood or even before, and only intervening when they got to the Tunnel?

Was he even there at all? For all we know, he might have had some surveillance cameras set up somewhere, hence the call rather than a physical confrontation. I don't know. I think he was probably there, but without knowing what his agenda is, it's hard to predict his moves.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:43 am
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