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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Slender Man Mythos
[VIDEOGAME] Slender: The Arrival
Moderators: ChildOfAtom, Cougar Draven, DavFlamerock, Dixie_Wolf, ndemeter
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Author Message
Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
Posts: 2058

Quote:
I don't think the kind of text used is enough to clue us in, considering it's the only form of text used throughout the whole game.


That's the whole point, it's not a clue to anything. The things being used to justify it being a "clue" are all incidental.

Quote:
It was mainly the "I'm lost. Can you find me?" message that made me believe it was CM speaking, as the level is triggered by looking at his MISSING poster. This would in turn mean that the "Don't worry, I'll find you" message is also from him.


It is Slenderman. You are playing hide-&-seek with Slenderman. That is the joke. Note that you defeat your own logic here, because if it were the proxy speaking, you should find the proxy, & the proxy should be the one to find you. But it is not. It is Slenderman. You are not "taken to" Slenderman, not even off-screen. He shows up, clearly looking for you.

Quote:
If not this, then how do you explain the snarls heard within the house?


I don't even remember hearing snarls, & I really don't care. Everything else in this level has no clear purpose, so why should this be different? The snarling alone is not enough to prove that the level is anything other than an Easter egg.

Also, even if it was a clue, you are choosing what you want to believe is significant. You act like there is no connection to Kate, but the thing takes place in Kate's house.

Quote:
Please, let's not argue anymore as there's no point to it and it's childish.


Except, no, an argument is a logical attempt to prove a point. And the reason I'm becoming increasingly short is because people are not showing signs of understanding how to construct a proper argument. People keep throwing out baseless interpretations, which often make huge leaps in reasoning, then calling them proof, & claiming that it's an obvious clue. It is annoying.

Quote:
Let's have nice discussions from now on and try to see from both perspectives. You now hopefully understand mine; now, help me see from your perspective.


I see that you are insistent that it is some kind of clue, but there is no evidence for this. I don't have an obligation to tell you that your position has merit just because that's what you want to hear. If you really want to understand you opposition, you're going to have to first acknowledge these premises:

P1: An optional level is often unrelated to the story.
P2: Not everything is a complicated clue.
P3: Only something that directly shows a connection is a clue. In other words, the only actual clue you've posted is the snarling.
P4: If it is such a convincing argument, it should work on people who don't already agree with you.

Quote:
If there's something I'm missing, let me know in the best detail that you can, please.


Again, I have stated numerous times that this shit is not "evidence," & is a theory built entirely out of coincidences & speculation, leading me to question whether or not you're even trying to get the point.

Quote:
now please, if you're positive about your views, show me how your views are more valid than mine.


I really don't know what it is that you want. There are only so many ways to say, "There is no solid link between this level & the proxy, & nothing suggesting that the level is canon, much less anything justifying your specific interpretations."

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:38 am
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Clairabel
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Joined: 13 Apr 2013
Posts: 177
Location: Birmingham, UK

Lithp wrote:
...it implies 2 contradictory chronologies for the Xenomorphs (were they born at the end of the movie or did they exist before & that's why there are sculptures of them on the ship?)


You know, I said this to my ex who I saw the film with, and he said it all made perfect sense when it clearly didn't - I'm glad I wasn't the only one who saw it that way!

Anyway, back on topic...

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:56 pm
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Malckeor
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Joined: 28 Feb 2012
Posts: 246
Location: Turkeyland, Land of Gobblers

Lithp wrote:
Quote:
I don't think the kind of text used is enough to clue us in, considering it's the only form of text used throughout the whole game.


That's the whole point, it's not a clue to anything. The things being used to justify it being a "clue" are all incidental.

It is Slenderman. You are playing hide-&-seek with Slenderman. That is the joke. Note that you defeat your own logic here, because if it were the proxy speaking, you should find the proxy, & the proxy should be the one to find you. But it is not. It is Slenderman. You are not "taken to" Slenderman, not even off-screen. He shows up, clearly looking for you.

Quote:
If not this, then how do you explain the snarls heard within the house?


I don't even remember hearing snarls, & I really don't care. Everything else in this level has no clear purpose, so why should this be different? The snarling alone is not enough to prove that the level is anything other than an Easter egg.

Also, even if it was a clue, you are choosing what you want to believe is significant. You act like there is no connection to Kate, but the thing takes place in Kate's house.

Quote:
Please, let's not argue anymore as there's no point to it and it's childish.


Except, no, an argument is a logical attempt to prove a point. And the reason I'm becoming increasingly short is because people are not showing signs of understanding how to construct a proper argument. People keep throwing out baseless interpretations, which often make huge leaps in reasoning, then calling them proof, & claiming that it's an obvious clue. It is annoying.

Quote:
Let's have nice discussions from now on and try to see from both perspectives. You now hopefully understand mine; now, help me see from your perspective.


I see that you are insistent that it is some kind of clue, but there is no evidence for this. I don't have an obligation to tell you that your position has merit just because that's what you want to hear. If you really want to understand you opposition, you're going to have to first acknowledge these premises:

P1: An optional level is often unrelated to the story.
P2: Not everything is a complicated clue.
P3: Only something that directly shows a connection is a clue. In other words, the only actual clue you've posted is the snarling.
P4: If it is such a convincing argument, it should work on people who don't already agree with you.

Quote:
If there's something I'm missing, let me know in the best detail that you can, please.


Again, I have stated numerous times that this shit is not "evidence," & is a theory built entirely out of coincidences & speculation, leading me to question whether or not you're even trying to get the point.

Quote:
now please, if you're positive about your views, show me how your views are more valid than mine.


I really don't know what it is that you want. There are only so many ways to say, "There is no solid link between this level & the proxy, & nothing suggesting that the level is canon, much less anything justifying your specific interpretations."


My darling Lithp. Let me just say that I like you. You sided with me a few weeks ago on the Marble Hornets forum when the Pupmaster of Twisty Puppets was being his typical fanboy self. I do not wish for there to be bad blood between us, because I know you are a good person, my son. Don't take my following views negatively, because I haven't taken yours negatively, and I won't be taking them negatively any time soon.


Now, let me begin by saying that there seems to have been quite a bit put into this secret level, development-wise. The chances that this was all done as a "joke" is unlikely, as the amount of connections to CM/the proxy seem like a bit too much to write this off as a silly joke. For the sake of discussion and finding the TRUE purpose of this level, I'm going to ask that we STOP using the "it was just an easter egg; it means nothing" debunk. That's too easy; this level was put here for a reason.

Anyway, as you know, the level is triggered by looking at CM's poster, who has in my opinion been all but confirmed to be the Proxy during the events of main story. Afterwards, the words "I'm lost, can you find me?" appear on the screen. Keep in mind; when you're trying to find someone, that usually means they're MISSING. This is triggered by looking at CM's MISSING poster. You see what I'm getting at? Charles is the one asking you to find him, and Charles is the one you look for within the house during the first round.

In this area, Charles (the Proxy) is keeping quiet, as he's the one hiding from you. You constantly get teleported either by the Proxy or by Slendy assisting him. This section ends unexpectedly without Lauren finding anyone, and the words "I like you, I want to play a game" appear on-screen. I know, this makes it seem like it's all Slendy, but we've seen from the secret ending that the Proxy has (likely limited) teleportation powers. There's also other shit that I'll get in to a bit lower down when the time comes.

Now, back in the main menu, some weird things have happened. A bunch of Charles' missing posters have replaced the stages in the "stage select" screen, further supporting evidence to us that all of this trippy shit is Charles' (the Proxy's) doing, and also that he's the one talking to you the whole time.

Upon clicking 'start game', text appears which reads "I will find you instead." Once entering the house, you begin hearing the Proxy's snarling. The reason the Proxy (Charles) is being so noisy, now, is because HE'S not the one hiding; he's the one SEEKING. The reason I say "HE" is because the snarls sound very deep and masculine. The snarling (which, I should mention, sound exactly like the snarling heard from the Proxy in the main game), combined with the Proxy's missing poster replacing the stage selection, make it INCREDIBLY obvious that it's Charles (the Proxy) who you are "playing" with, rather than Slendy.

The second section ends with you being found (by Charles, the Proxy, as you can hear him searching for you in the house). Charles then uses his limited teleportation powers to deliver you outside of the house, to his master (possibly echoing the game's secret ending where Charles appears and teleports you out of the burning building, as Slendy isn't done with Lauren yet and doesn't want her to perish in the flames, sequel potential, yaddayadda. Also worth noting is that the end of the secret level, IS THE FIRST TIME SLENDY IS SEEN ANYWHERE IN THE SECRET LEVEL), where you are consumed. Charles' missing poster appears on-screen, signaling that HE was the one to FIND you, rather than Slendy, whom you were delivered to.


Now, I understand how fun a lot of uF users find it to be "against the current" and believe what you want to believe despite the strong evidence right in front of your face (example: the people on the MH forum who believe Sarah is ToTheArk, or the ones in the EverymanHYBRID thread who refuse to believe the Iteration Theory despite the irrefutable evidence towards it), but please, take from everything I've typed and sourced and see the truth. SEE THE TRUTH, MY CHILDREN! If you believe I'm wrong, PLEASE cite in-game evidence to prove it. Don't just write everything off because it's an Easter Egg; don't say that you flat-out don't care about strong evidence (I'm looking at you, Lithp, my darling); the parallels and coincidences with the main game along with Charles' missing poster appearing everywhere makes it clear that this was put in the game to clue us in to the Proxy's identity: Charles Matheson. What's the evidence for Kate being the Proxy? "Uhh, the Proxy's model looks feminine because hair." No. The Proxy's character model is too covered-up to be a confirmation of gender, and men can have long hair as well, especially if they've been under the influence of an Eldritch Horror for a number of years.

On the other hand, what's the evidence for Charles Matheson being the Proxy?

-The missing poster, showing us the only other named character in the game aside from the main three.

-The note written outside of the mine that's been signed "Charles M."

-The masculine-sounding snarls.

-The contradictions in the game's timeline that make it impossible for Kate to be at the mine at the same time Lauren is. Seriously, the forest fire hadn't been going for that long by the time Lauren got there, or otherwise it would have spread much further; I'd say it started shortly after Lauren woke up after finding the pages. You're telling me that Kate INSTANTLY became a crazy Proxy upon watching CR burn himself, gaining the power of teleportation ON THE SPOT, and was able to get out of that burning building (along with the beginnings of the forest fire) and get down to the mine before Lauren got there? There's just no way in hell that this is possible.

-(Continuation of the above bullet?) - THE FOOTSTEPS. All throughout the game (in all levels), if you stand around for a little bit, you'll hear sneaky footsteps nearby, which are HIGHLY likely to belong to the Proxy (I think of it as being reminiscent of how Masky/Hoody stalk Jay prominently during season 2; always watching, but always just out of sight...). This right here COMPLETELY destroys any chance of Kate being the Proxy, as it's IMPOSSIBLE that she was on your tail the whole game. The forest fire started either shortly before or shortly after Lauren awakened after the Eight Pages section; Kate was present when CR torched himself, as heard in the audio recording. SHE CAN'T BE IN TWO PLACES AT ONCE, PEOPLE!

-Everything in the dang secret level that I've gone in-depth about above.


I've said all that needs to be said.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:16 pm
Last edited by Malckeor on Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:36 am; edited 10 times in total
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Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
Posts: 2058

Quote:
My darling Lithp. Let me just say that I like you. You sided with me a few weeks ago on the Marble Hornets forum when the Pupmaster of Twisty Puppets was being his typical fanboy self. I do not wish for there to be bad blood between us, because I know you are a good person, my son. Don't take my following views negatively, because I haven't taken yours negatively, and I won't be taking them negatively any time soon.




Quote:
For the sake of discussion and finding the TRUE purpose of this level, I'm going to ask that we STOP using the "it was just an easter egg; it means nothing" debunk. That's too easy; this level was put here for a reason.


How convenient, the first step to finding the level's true purpose is to draft a rule that says I'm wrong by default.

Quote:
Now, I understand how fun a lot of uF users find it to be "against the current" and believe what you want to believe despite the strong evidence right in front of your face... don't say that you flat-out don't care about strong evidence (I'm looking at you, Lithp, my darling);


I don't know what you were so worried about, I don't see anything here that could be somehow misconstrued as a blatant insult.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:53 pm
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Shaoken
Veteran

Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 80

Malckeor wrote:
Now, let me begin by saying that there seems to have been quite a bit put into this secret level, development-wise. The chances that this was all done as a "joke" is unlikely,


You are aware what an easter egg is right? And you are aware that some easter eggs have had a lot mroe work put into them then this secret level which, from a design standpoint, didn't have that much work put into it since it is just reusing assets from the game (the level from the first one, the teleporting effect from the end of the second, the fire from the last and sounds from all over the place).

If they had put in assets that were entirely unique to this level you might have a point, but as it stands this level is literally cut and pasted from the rest of the game. It's like if they created a movie, then took some scenes and effects from the movie and made another, shorter movie.

Quote:
as the amount of connections to CM/the proxy seem like a bit too much to write this off as a silly joke.


Let me list the connections:

CM: You see his missing poster, which is literally the only distinguishing collectable outside the house.
Proxy: Their snarling may be heard in the level, although I didn't make it out.

So one to each, the first can be dismissed as "it's the only trigger outside the house" and the latter being asset rusing (which the first also ties into).

Quote:
For the sake of discussion and finding the TRUE purpose of this level, I'm going to ask that we STOP using the "it was just an easter egg; it means nothing" debunk.


You've spent too long on this forum, it seems like it's preventing you from accepting the possiblity that not everything is some mystery that was left there for the fans to solve. Sometimes things are exactly what they see on the surface.

Quote:
That's too easy; this level was put here for a reason.


Yes, to be an amusing easter egg to show off all of the effects they created for the game.

Again, what does there have to be a deeper reason? It's essentially a tech demo demonstrating all of the features and assets for the game...except for the Proxy, who is entirely abscent despite it being absolutely trival to show them.

Quote:
Anyway, as you know, the level is triggered by looking at CM's poster, who has in my opinion been all but confirmed to be the Proxy during the events of main story.


Which is entirely why you think this proves it.

Tell me, have you noticed the fact that only those people who already believed the Proxy is CM took this level as validation of their beliefs? If it really was proof, how come the only people saying so are the same ones who were saying it before the level was discovered?

Quote:
Afterwards, the words "I'm lost, can you find me?" appear on the screen. Keep in mind; when you're trying to find someone, that usually means they're MISSING. This is triggered by looking at CM's MISSING poster. You see what I'm getting at? Charles is the one asking you to find him, and Charles is the one you look for within the house during the first round.


Do you know who else is lost in the game?

1) Kate
2) Lauren
3) CR

Also considering how snarky Slender-speak can be in the game, this could be the same as a serial killer bragging about his victims.


Quote:
In this area, Charles (the Proxy) is keeping quiet, as he's the one hiding from you. You constantly get teleported either by the Proxy or by Slendy assisting him. This section ends unexpectedly without Lauren finding anyone, and the words "I like you, I want to play a game" appear on-screen. I know, this makes it seem like it's all Slendy,


Because as you said there is no evidence of the Proxy being in the house.

Quote:
but we've seen from the secret ending that the Proxy has (likely limited) teleportation powers. There's also other shit that I'll get in to a bit lower down when the time comes.


No we don't. You're taking a near-dead camera's fragments as proof of the Proxy being the one who teleported you and discounting;

- The camera was dying and flicked in and out
- Slendy teleporting you since he was literally right behind you the entire fifth level.

Proxy teleports, but that seems to be more a gameplay mechanic than an actual thing since they only teleport when they're far away from you or on the bridge which doesn't bring up the static cut. So it's less "Proxy is teleporting" and more "Proxy is trying to out manuver you."

Quote:
Now, back in the main menu, some weird things have happened. A bunch of Charles' missing posters have replaced the stages in the "stage select" screen, further supporting evidence to us that all of this trippy shit is Charles' (the Proxy's) doing, and also that he's the one talking to you the whole time.


Okay, now you have offically taken this from speculation into delusion.

This is not Marble Hornets. This is not a story in the framing device of J uploading videos to the internet. This is a game that takes place within the context of Lauren looking for her friend. There is literally no fourth wall breaking in the entire game. Not once.

This is not Charles screwing with the player, this is the developers having fun without having to make new assets.

Quote:
Upon clicking 'start game', text appears which reads "I will find you instead." Once entering the house, you begin hearing the Proxy's snarling. The reason the Proxy (Charles) is being so noisy, now, is because HE'S not the one hiding; he's the one SEEKING. The reason I say "HE" is because the snarls sound very deep and masculine. The snarling (which, I should mention, sound exactly like the snarling heard from the Proxy in the main game), combined with the Proxy's missing poster replacing the stage selection, make it INCREDIBLY obvious that it's Charles (the Proxy) who you are "playing" with, rather than Slendy.


So obvious only those who were already 100% convinced that they were right can see it.

Again, why not just show Proxy before the last jump cut? It's literally the easiest thing to pull off;

1) Use the "turn camera to Slendy" code that plays whenever he catches you.
2) Have the Proxy standing there instead of Slendy with it's pursuit AI turned off.

That is not difficult and in a level made up of reused assets it'd fit right in.

Quote:
The second section ends with you being found (by Charles, the Proxy, as you can hear him searching for you in the house). Charles then uses his limited teleportation powers to deliver you outside of the house, to his master (possibly echoing the game's secret ending where Charles appears and teleports you out of the burning building, as Slendy isn't done with Lauren yet and doesn't want her to perish in the flames, sequel potential, yaddayadda. Also worth noting is that the end of the secret level, IS THE FIRST TIME SLENDY IS SEEN ANYWHERE IN THE SECRET LEVEL), where you are consumed. Charles' missing poster appears on-screen, signaling that HE was the one to FIND you, rather than Slendy, whom you were delivered to.


Or you know, Slendy was following you since there was signs that slendy was in the level; the static is the universal "Slendy is here" signal in the game. And again, there's no evidence that it's Proxy teleporting you with their magic powers they literally never showed any sign of in their level instead of the much more believable Slendy teleporting you since he does posses magic teleporting powers and has spent the entire game showing them off to you because he's secretly lonely and wants to make friends and thinks that by showing off his teleportation skills people will think "hey that's cool, I want to be that guy's friend," but alas people just run away screaming and Slendy is all alone so he kidnaps them to have tea parties at his house.


Quote:
Now, I understand how fun a lot of uF users find it to be "against the current" and believe what you want to believe despite the strong evidence right in front of your face (example: the people on the MH forum who believe Sarah is ToTheArk, or the ones in the EverymanHYBRID thread who refuse to believe the Iteration Theory despite the irrefutable evidence towards it),



Oh for god's sake.

You're accusing everyone whose not you of logical falalcy while spitting in the face of Occaham's razor (the theory that requires the least jumps in evidence is usually correct).

Second, there is no irrefutable evidence, that's why it's call a theory. Fuck I've watched every EverymanHYBRID video and I have no fucking idea what you people are talking about when you mention the Iteration Theory so clearly there's not that much irrefutable evidence if it's not self apparant.

Quote:
If you believe I'm wrong, PLEASE cite in-game evidence to prove it.



I will once you understand what evidence is and stop using speculation in it's place.


Because news flash, you aren't using evidence. You haven't proven jack shit. You've made several not unreasonable assumptions and several crazy ones and resorted to insulting people who disagree with you as being against your poitn of view because they think it's fun.

Quote:
Don't just write everything off because it's an Easter Egg; don't say that you flat-out don't care about strong evidence (I'm looking at you, Lithp, my darling); the parallels and coincidences with the main game along with Charles' missing poster appearing everywhere makes it clear that this was put in the game to clue us in to the Proxy's identity: Charles Matheson.




Again, the only two people who are believe this were the ones who were loudly saying they were right and practically looking down on everyone with a different opinion.

You're commiting the cardinal sin of researching; you started with the conclusion and worked your way backwards.

Quote:
-The contradictions in the game's timeline that make it impossible for Kate to be at the mine at the same time Lauren is. Seriously, the forest fire hadn't been going for that long by the time Lauren got there, or otherwise it would have spread much further; I'd say it started shortly after Lauren woke up after finding the pages. You're telling me that Kate INSTANTLY became a crazy Proxy upon watching CR burn himself, gaining the power of teleportation ON THE SPOT, and was able to get out of that burning building (along with the beginnings of the forest fire) and get down to the mine before Lauren got there? There's just no way in hell that this is possible.


Let's go over the game's timeline and reveal there are no contradictions;

- The fact that CR is no longer smoldering would indicate that the fire that killed him had been out for many hours since you can get close to him without choking on smoke, and considering the shape of that room Smoke would take a long time to vent out.
- The fire couldn't have started after you wake up in the morning, because you would have seen it either before you entired the mine or after you exited it as fire's are not ninjas, you can see the smoke long before hte fire and smell it.
- We don't know how long there was between Kate jumping out her window and Lauren showing up, because the game never specifies when the two events occured. At the very least there is close to 24 hours between the two events (it's dark in the flashback and afternoon in the first level). Assuming the scream you hear in the forest belongs to Kate she would still have around 12 hours to get through the mines, get to the tower and see CR burn himself then double back and enter the mines to run into Lauren before she arrives.
- Lauren has clearly lost a few marbles by the start of the game as result of slendy-stalking and childhood trauma, seeing CR burn himself could easily push her over the edge and into Corpsy mode.
- The forest fire wasn't started by CR's fire, since that fire was in thet heart of the tower building, lacked the fuel sources to leave that dead end and into the forest, there are trees next to the entrance that aren't blazing infernos, you can walk in that building with no health effects despite the fact that any recent fire would at the very least render the area incredibly hot and filled it with smoke which is not conductive to getting a healthy supply of oxygen into the lungs.

Quote:
-(Continuation of the above bullet?) - THE FOOTSTEPS. All throughout the game (in all levels), if you stand around for a little bit, you'll hear sneaky footsteps nearby, which are HIGHLY likely to belong to the Proxy (I think of it as being reminiscent of how Masky/Hoody stalk Jay prominently during season 2; always watching, but always just out of sight...). This right here COMPLETELY destroys any chance of Kate being the Proxy, as it's IMPOSSIBLE that she was on your tail the whole game. The forest fire started either shortly before or shortly after Lauren awakened after the Eight Pages section; Kate was present when CR torched himself, as heard in the audio recording. SHE CAN'T BE IN TWO PLACES AT ONCE, PEOPLE!


You know the all caps just make you sound like a raving lunatic holding an "end is near" sign.

The footsteps don't make a whole lot of sense since you can hear them in places where it's literally impossible for you to not see someone following you. It's there ot make you paranoid, the fact that you hear them after leaving the mines despite the only lift being out of Corpsy's reach .

Quote:
said all that needs to be said.


Which amounted to a lot of speculation and borderline insulting everyone who disagreed with you as only doing it "for funs" and not because there exists people who are not you who have taken in the game and reached a different point of view to you and you lack the solid irrefutable evidence to prove your own points.

Hell at least my "CM is CR" theory was based off the missing poster starting with C and endign with R. A long shot but I'm only making one leap of logic.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:36 am
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Malckeor
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Joined: 28 Feb 2012
Posts: 246
Location: Turkeyland, Land of Gobblers

Shaoken wrote:
-Snippity snip snip-


Hold the turkeyphone, my son. I'm not insulting anyone. This is merely a clean, uF conversation about theories and the like. We all love each other.

First of all, you say that SLENDY was the one behind you in the building at the end of the game? Slendy doesn't produce footsteps, and FFS, SLENDY DOESN'T SNARL. SDIOGNSDOPBOISDFJGVOIDJAVJPADJO You saying that you couldn't make them out, my son, doesn't mean that they're not there, because they clearly are. Then again, you claim to not know anything about EMH's Iteration Theory either, despite watching through it multiple times. I'm guessing you didn't read the Corenthal documents or all of the important crap that makes it irrefutable?... Doesn't that current tire you out, my son? Take a rest...

Second, if you remember, CR listed a type of fuel on the list of things he wanted Kate to bring with her on her way to the tower, which would explain how he started the forest fire; they threw fuel all over the damned place, only CR didn't tell Kate what he was about to do until he did it; she was just convinced that they were going to burn down the building/tower.


It takes a STRONG MAN...to DENY WHAT'S IN FRONT OF HIM... You have strength, my son. I hope you feel at peace knowing that fact. But strength burns if it's misguided. Just ask Pudge.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:17 am
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Malckeor
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Joined: 28 Feb 2012
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Location: Turkeyland, Land of Gobblers

So how about, instead of watching others beat around the Irrefutability Tree, we just...for the sake of my INSANITY...agree to turkeygree? Let's wait for the sequel to give us the much-needed confirmation that we gobblers need.................

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:31 am
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Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
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Man, you are so full of shit. You know for a fact that you're insulting people, otherwise you wouldn't constantly post disclaimers before you went on with the backhanded remarks about people "ignoring the truth." You're basically flipping us the bird & saying you're just waving to us, like it fools anyone.

Also, you were the one who decided to start this debate, making a big show about how you were going to "see both points of view," & we should try to do the same. But then all you did was repeat your previous speculation, dismiss any point that disagreed with it as obviously wrong without giving any reason for why yours was so much better, & then move on to the aforementioned insults. And of course, when someone actually has the patience to respond to you in full, suddenly you want to "agree to disagree." Again, like anyone is fooled.

Also like there's any controversy. You have not proven your theory beyond a reasonable doubt, yet you act like it's the Word of God Himself. You "agreeing to disagree" is basically declaring that you're going to keep doing what you're already doing, but with less words.

And I don't really care what you think, I'm going to say this anyway: The Iteration Theory while, unlike this, having some degree of convincing evidence, is in much the same boat. It is not "irrefutable," there are a number of holes & contradictions with it, & various pieces which can be explained in other ways. As far as I can tell, there's been little real effort to actually attempt to falsify the Iteration Theory, & so how strong can it be, if it's literally never tested?

Also, even if it is true, it's still awful.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:10 pm
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zbeeblebrox
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Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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Man, you guys are wasting a loooot of words on a silly easter egg level

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:39 pm
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Malckeor
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Joined: 28 Feb 2012
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Location: Turkeyland, Land of Gobblers

Lithp wrote:
Snip


I respect your opinions, Lithp.

I'm insulting no-one. You guys are merely misreading my words. And I've provided all of my evidence, cited and all. You've both attempted to counter me by either saying you "couldn't make out" the evidence (which means nothing, as it's clearly there), disregarding the evidence (WHY WOULD THIS BE TRIGGERED BY CM'S MISSING POSTER IF IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM? IT MAKES NO SENSE! DIOSGNOPSIDGJIOPSDJGIOP), by saying that you just don't care about the evidence, or with wrong evidence (the camera clearly teleports as it falls from the top of the tower. How else would it get up there? And how would Lauren, with her camera, be able to get out of the burning building alive, with Charles right behind her? TELEPORTATION.) all for the sake of keeping yourselves grappled to the shot-in-the-dark theory that the Proxy is Kate, based solely on the hair of the Proxy's character model. I will conceit that the timeline in regards to when the fire started is a little weird, but I just don't find it logical that Kate would instantly slip into masculine-snarling madness upon seeing CR torch himself; it would take days to get to that state.

Hell, we ARE human. I can't see what you guys are saying, and you can't see what I'm saying. It's a damned shame that our species is so silly. It looks like this never-ending, bush-beating debate isn't going to stop until we get an official confirmation from the sequel.

Apologies for my apparently insulting you in our conversation; I still can't see it, but I'll apologize anyway. Happiness is a virtue, and I want you both to feel it.

Anyway, yes. I've said all that needs to be said regarding the secret level and the Proxy's identity. Take it for what you will, those who read it.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:25 pm
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Lithp
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Joined: 04 Mar 2012
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Quote:
I'm insulting no-one. You guys are merely misreading my words. And I've provided all of my evidence, cited and all.


Providing evidence is more than taking scenes & creating an explanation for them. I can do that too, watch:

This level is a clue that Charles Masterson is Slenderman. He didn't go missing, he turned into Slenderman. That's why his face appears over Slenderman, & why Slenderman speaks so childlike. Obviously, Charles went missing in the mine & died in a mine fire (hence why Slenderman kills you with fire), & his spirit rose as Slenderman to haunt the area around the mine (which is also near Kate's house). He is driven to find stragglers in the woods, like he once was, to play games like Tag & Hide-&-Go-Seek with, but ultimately kills the victim when he becomes bored. In the same way that he died. With fire. Either by influencing them to burn themselves, or by setting the fire himself. He finds Kate in her house, & burns her, much like he did Lauren in the secret level--but, unlike Lauren, she managed to survive--she wears a mask & hoody to cover the burns. He is so impressed that he decides to use his powers to warp her mind & turn her into a permanent playmate. There is no contradiction in the timeline, because this all happens before Lauren arrives at the house, & any evidence to the contrary is just Kate leading you on.

BAM. Look at that. I "explained" the link to Charles's poster, Slenderman's behavior, all of the fire deaths, & the origin of the proxy. In one "theory." It is full of "citations" to events from both the main game & the secret level.

I also happen to be talking completely out of my ass. Because what I didn't do was show proof of my explanation. For instance, there is no scene where Charles dies in a fire, I simply assume that it happened, because it "could have," & it fits with the narrative so well. Similarly, you never showed that the proxy found you, & not Slenderman, you simply claimed that the snarling meant that's what happened.

Quote:
(which means nothing, as it's clearly there),


I checked a YouTube video. The snarls are there, but--are you ready for the twist:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Those are feminine sounds.


I mean, I guess I don't know enough about sound to prove it, but they are extremely high pitched. Also, Kate whispers in a similar way in the flashback.

Quote:
(WHY WOULD THIS BE TRIGGERED BY CM'S MISSING POSTER IF IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM? IT MAKES NO SENSE! DIOSGNOPSIDGJIOPSDJGIOP),


Again, why does it take place in Kate's house if it has nothing to do with her?

Any way you slice it, you have to admit that there are aspects of this level that MUST be totally meaningless, & therefore the conclusion that it's just an Easter egg isn't such an unbelievable leap at all.

Quote:
(the camera clearly teleports as it falls from the top of the tower. How else would it get up there? And how would Lauren, with her camera, be able to get out of the burning building alive, with Charles right behind her? TELEPORTATION.)


It could be proxyportation.

It could also be that the fire caused a wall to collapse, that the proxy entered through the door & didn't lock it, that Slenderman teleported them out, or that Lauren found an object to break a wall or lock & allow herself to get out.

Like, really, why would Corpsey teleport Lauren to the top of the tower just to drop her off? It makes far more sense to me that they were fighting, ended up there, & Lauren ultimately fell/was pushed off.

Quote:
all for the sake of keeping yourselves grappled to the shot-in-the-dark theory that the Proxy is Kate, based solely on the hair of the Proxy's character model.


See, I knew this is what you were thinking, but I chose not to correct you, because it's a great example of how you based your entire argument on preconceived notions & didn't bother to check them to see if they were factual.

If you go back through my posts, you'll find that I never said that Kate is the proxy. In fact, I said that there is no hard evidence that rules out either of them, that both are problematic to the narrative, & that there is a strong likelihood it was left deliberately ambiguous. I did not say that the Proxy is a girl because of the hair & was, in fact, one of the first people to point out that hair length is a poor indicator of gender. What I DID do is list the Proxy's secondary sexual characteristics--I have a few years of anatomy & anthropology under my belt--& concluded that it has features in line with both genders

But if I had to choose, I lean a bit towards Charles. I oppose your theory simply because it's illogical.

Quote:
I will conceit that the timeline in regards to when the fire started is a little weird, but I just don't find it logical that Kate would instantly slip into masculine-snarling madness upon seeing CR torch himself; it would take days to get to that state.


This is one of the problems with the Kate Theory, a lack of any clear motive beyond "Slender Mind Control."

Quote:
Hell, we ARE human. I can't see what you guys are saying, and you can't see what I'm saying.


I can see what you're saying, it's just that what you're saying is all supposition supported with guesswork. What makes my explanations different, you ask? Philosophical burden of proof. It falls outside of the main game, & therefore is not part of the canon story, unless proven otherwise. This is really no different than saying that the Graphics Options aren't part of the game, until Lauren references them somehow.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:38 pm
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Shaoken
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Joined: 16 Jul 2012
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I'm just going to throw this idea out there; it's equally possible that Corpsy is literally no one else in the game. Considering how cliched the Proxy has become in Slender Man mythos, it would be a refreshing change and the best twist.

Anyway, here is my thoughts on each candidate for Corpsy and identifying what the evidence is and what the speculation is.

1) Lauren
Who is she? The protagonist of the game.
How likely is she to be Corpsy? Unless time travel is a thing like in Tribe Twelve or EverymanHYBRID, nil since she runs into Corpsy.
Motivation? To break her will, Slenderman did the most horrible thing imaginable; whenever she failed to escape in time he would grab her, wipe most of her memory and put all the notes in random locations. She wouldn't remember that she had already tried getting the notes, but a part of her mind would realise it and be driven mad over the many continues. To speed the process up Slendy brought back future Lauren to keep up the pressure in the mines.
Evidence? None.

2) Kate
Who is she? Lauren's childhood friend, owner of the house at the begining, and a talented artist.
How likely is she to be Corpsy? Of all the characters given some amount of characterisation she's the most likely. Granted, that is a grand total of three people.
Motivation? From the first level it's apparant Kate has not been in the best mental health as of late, becoming obsessed with the faceless man stalking her and drawing hundreds of notes relating to him. CR's suicide, sleep deprivation, and years of being stalked by Slendy finally took it's hold and poor Kate snapped, donning the mask and giving herself over to Slender.
Evidence? Circumstantal; she has the same colour hair as Corpsy, could be the same hieght (difficult to gage since we see things from Lauren's perspective, and we don't know how tall she is compared to anyone), corpsy is bundled up enough to render all traditional forms of identifying gender difficult, even the snarls brought up aren't beyond what a female's vocal cords could produce. She is however the only other person besides Corpsy and CR's corpse who we see on screen
Counterpoints? The timeframe of her adventures with CR are entirely undefined. All we can say for certain is that the blaze that killed CR did not start the forest first, because there are plenty of flamable materials in the building that are intact when you pass them, including the camera that recoreded CR's last words. So however far ahead Kate was is undeterminable.

3) Charles M.
Who is he? A missing child hinted to be kidnapped by Slender Man.
How likely is he? Nothing to discount him being Corpsy.
Motivation? Fuck knows, he never shows up on camera.
Evidence? The missing poster in the first episode and a letter from a CM in the third.
Counterpoint? That's literally the only evidence that CM even exists, and both are off the beaten track. The letter itself is impossible to find if you weren't looking for it as it's hidden in a dead-end you wouldn't have any reason to search. Tim's reveal as Masky had a lot more evidence towards it. A reveal should have some punch behind it, but since CM is a non-entity it just falls flat, no different to Corpsy being some random guy.

4) Some random guy
Who is he? Some random guy.
How likely is he? There's nothing to disprove it.
Motivation? Pissed he didn't make the game, he donned a mask and vowed to ensure no one could beat it.
Evidence? None.

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 4:22 am
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Lithp
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Joined: 04 Mar 2012
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I have indeed considered the possibility that Corpsey might just be Corpsey, & nothing else. I wouldn't say it's a good twist, though.

I've also considered the fact that a lot of our evidence hinges on Trosephim not getting the logistics wrong. There could be mistakes in the timeline, or things justified by "magic." I'm looking at you, mysterious flames that burst, fuel-less, out of the ground in front of me.

Also, if you're going to list Lauren-through-time-travel, then let's not forget:

5) CR revived from the dead.
Who is he? Kate's friend, killed himself.
How likely is he to be Corpsey? It's strange that everyone was willing to consider borderline mind control, but not revivification. However, Corpsey is clearly much shorter than CR's dead body, so unless he came back differently for some reason, no dice.
Motivation? Tried to kill himself to get away from Slenderman. Slenderman decided to do the worst possible thing, & bind him to its will forever.
Evidence? None.

I think those 5 things pretty much accurately sum up all of the possibilities (& non-possibilities).

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 7:00 am
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Clairabel
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zbeeblebrox wrote:
Man, you guys are wasting a loooot of words on a silly easter egg level


PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 3:29 pm
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Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
Posts: 2058

Clairabel wrote:
zbeeblebrox wrote:
Man, you guys are wasting a loooot of words on a silly easter egg level


I've moved on. Also, I'm not sure what the implication of that is supposed to be?

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 9:19 pm
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