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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
Alex's game.
Moderators: Giskard, JKatkina, Zarggg
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Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
Posts: 2058

 		Actually, I meant leaving a tape indicating, "Hey, Alex didn't give you all of the tapes."

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:33 am
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Toadbert
Decorated


Joined: 11 Mar 2012
Posts: 292

 		Oh, I see

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:08 pm
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Grumplestiltskin
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Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 362
Location: East of Eden, South of Hell

 		What if TO is not the instigator?
...bear with me for a bit here.
Both of Ben's original theories presuppose that Alex is either TO's victim and/or protégé. But what if that's the wrong premise?

I have for a long time now felt deep in my gut that Alex is thoroughly, entirely evil -- always has been, always will be. People will point to happy, smiling, early-filming Alex as proof that he wasn't always like this, but sociopaths can be very charming when they want to. And if the filming was merely a pretext to get some of his victims into the woods, well, pretty clever of him, wasn't it?

I think that TO is a physical manifestation of Alex's rage. Call it psychic energy solidified, or Jungian synchronicity, whatever, but I think Alex creates TO himself, and not in a "here let me make this fake-looking mannequin bogeyman" way. I do think that he made the tapes that became J's first entries as a way of making it seem that he's a victim, but only in the sense that he's covering himself in case what he's done (killing his friends) should later be found out. I think he burned the most incriminating of the tapes, left the "Seth" tape in the tower as insurance, and kept the "Brian" tape as a trophy (something serial killers have been known to do).

I think he gave J the remainder of the tapes thinking that J would be intrigued and look at them right away, giving Alex yet another excuse to lead someone else into the woods when J came to ask him about what was on the tapes. When that didn't happen, he got bored, took off, and restarted his life elsewhere, going into a period of latency in his killings.

I think TO is a symptom -- not a cause -- of Alex's issues.


:: waits patiently for someone with a saw to cut off the limb onto which I've ventured ::

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:06 am
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Toadbert
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Joined: 11 Mar 2012
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 		That doesn't explain Tim's early issues with the Operator though

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:13 am
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Grumplestiltskin
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Joined: 05 Apr 2013
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Location: East of Eden, South of Hell
Toadbert wrote:
That doesn't explain Tim's early issues with the Operator though


We don't really know if Tim's issues (assuming you're meaning childhood here for 'early') are with TO or not -- even Tim himself doesn't know. Entry #66 is full of Tim saying "I don't know what I saw," "I can't remember," and "what if [TO] is my fault?" -- nothing definite.

Tim might just have been a disturbed child, which in turn might have made him more susceptible to believe that TO is the cause of his mental illness. Finding a story we can tell to ourselves to explain the unexplainable is something we all do; it gives us a measure of sense in the face of terrible chaotic facts.

Tim also has sustained at least one major head-trauma as an adult that we know of (because we saw Alex do it, [and then saw TO show up, incidentally]), which would have been enough to cause seizures, memory loss, fugue states, and hallucinations. And there may have been more injuries/attacks from Alex, who knows?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:53 am
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Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
Posts: 2058

 		Possible, I suppose, but not really consistent with a lot of things. There are no real signs of Alex having a troubled life before this, or anything that would make him want to kill his friends. He hardly seems to act like a serial killer even now, as he hesitates to shoot Jessica. Then there's the fact that The Operator seems to have an existence outside of Alex, it doesn't bring him victims for instance, & the question of why only Alex forms this thing when there are plenty of worse killers? Also, there is the statement that The Operator does not have an origin story.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:59 am
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Grumplestiltskin
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Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 362
Location: East of Eden, South of Hell

 		The only thing we know for certain about Alex's childhood is that he once had a birthday party, nothing else (TTA certainly wanted with enttry 37 to imply something about TO being linked to Alex early on, but it's not clear what exactly). People who are later found to have committed horrible crimes are usually described as "quiet," "normal," etc., by their stunned neighbors, so the absence of evidence of Alex being an evil child is not evidence that he wasn't.

I think he was ready to shoot both J and Jessica, but Masky tackled him. He certainly was willing to insist that she come along on the walk in the woods...

I don't know if Alex is in control of what TO does once he manifests or not, but I suspect he probably isn't. He may even have been frightened of TO in the beginning, not knowing what it was. But TO does seem to show up clearly when Alex is killing/trying to -- hitting Tim with the rebar and crushing "Bruce's" head with the rock come immediately to mind. But if Alex does create TO, then the energy burst it might take could theoretically interfere with electronics; he might get angry somewhere miles or states away and TO shows up where J is, I dunno. The thing about an ARG is that their reality contains possibilities ours doesn't.

I'm not familiar with the "statement that The Operator does not have an origin story" -- is this Mouth of Trosephim?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:23 am
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Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
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 		Yes it is.

It is strange of him to say, "I didn't want Jessica to be involved!" Why would he fake feeling guilty?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:26 am
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paladin181
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Joined: 14 Nov 2011
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Lithp wrote:
Yes it is.

It is strange of him to say, "I didn't want Jessica to be involved!" Why would he fake feeling guilty?
You mistake killer with the ability to feel affection and remorse. He could like Jessica. She was his girlfriend's roommate for a while. He liked Amy until she uncovered his camera. Jessica was truly an "innocent bystander" whom Alex hadn't targeted when this all started.maybe he wanted her for himself, but since she knew things she had to be disposed of like Amy. These aren't great leaps of logic or anything.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:52 am
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Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
Posts: 2058
paladin181 wrote:
Lithp wrote:
Yes it is.

It is strange of him to say, "I didn't want Jessica to be involved!" Why would he fake feeling guilty?
You mistake killer with the ability to feel affection and remorse. He could like Jessica. She was his girlfriend's roommate for a while. He liked Amy until she uncovered his camera. Jessica was truly an "innocent bystander" whom Alex hadn't targeted when this all started.maybe he wanted her for himself, but since she knew things she had to be disposed of like Amy. These aren't great leaps of logic or anything.


I'm working off of Grumple's characterization, which includes the phrases "wholly evil" & "a sociopath only pretending to be normal."

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:45 pm
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DarKWolF90
Boot

Joined: 17 Oct 2012
Posts: 22

 		I'm just a lurker and i don't post much. But I think this whole TO is alex' rage physical manifestation has some big flaws.

Technically if this was true, then TO would constantly be "Living" inside alex' mind.... which brings the following questions.

1- Why doesn't the camera get distortion whenever alex is being put on screen? TO is inside him apparently.

2- If it's from Alex' rage, why did it show up all of a sudden when alex had moved on with Amy?

3- Why did it even show up during MH shooting? When there was no paranoia nor rage at all?


Something else comes to mind. If Alex was in full rational control of himself, i figure he would've burnt ALL OF THE TAPES. I mean, if you burn some, why not just burn them all? Why leave a lot of them aside? It's not coherent, and typical from someone who isn't being himself.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:41 pm
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Grumplestiltskin
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Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 362
Location: East of Eden, South of Hell
DarKWolF90 wrote:

1- Why doesn't the camera get distortion whenever alex is being put on screen? TO is inside him apparently.

2- If it's from Alex' rage, why did it show up all of a sudden when alex had moved on with Amy?

3- Why did it even show up during MH shooting? When there was no paranoia nor rage at all?


Something else comes to mind. If Alex was in full rational control of himself, i figure he would've burnt ALL OF THE TAPES. I mean, if you burn some, why not just burn them all? Why leave a lot of them aside? It's not coherent, and typical from someone who isn't being himself.


I think it's a good theory, one I've been pondering for a while, but I'm obviously biased. Wink And these are good questions. First, I think it's important to make a distinction that I probably haven't made clear: "evil" and/or "sociopath" (two terms I use interchangeably but really shouldn't, but more about that below*) versus "rage."

Sociopaths are like other humans except for lacking what is characterized variously as a conscience, empathy, or the ability to see other people as humans like themselves. Otherwise, they have a pretty normal range of emotion -- they can like things, feel pleasure, feel pain, get angry, etc. They are also able to make and carry out plans, often terribly complicated ones. They aren't necessarily out-of-control homicidal maniacs 24/7. If anything, the thing that makes them so sinister and dangerous is their ability to appear normal.

1) & 3). If TO were Alex's rage manifesting physically, it would only be produced if he was angry, so if he was feeling relatively calm, it might not produce any filming distortion, or very little. If he was perturbed, it might produce something more; really pissed off, a lot -- you get the idea.

2). I think Amy made Alex really angry, really abruptly by getting out his camera and catching him in a lie ('we don't have a camera'). She didn't seem terribly accusatory about it, almost kind of teasing, but she noticed right away that Alex was in an "odd mood."

But if Lithp is right (and I have no reason to believe that untrue Smile ) that the BroTrin have said TO has no origin story, then this is all moot, and I am standing down.


* "Evil" is a philosophical concept, and a cultural value judgement. "Sociopath" refers to a mental health condition, generally considered incurable.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:57 pm
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paladin181
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Joined: 14 Nov 2011
Posts: 502

 		So James just wants to punish himself through the Red Pyramid Thing?

Or in this case, Alex just wants to punish others through the big faceless thing?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:42 pm
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Grumplestiltskin
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Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 362
Location: East of Eden, South of Hell
paladin181 wrote:

Or in this case, Alex just wants to punish others through the big faceless thing?


Dude, I already admitted I've been mooted by Lithp. Embarassed I cede any claim to the thread. But if you want to continue to listen to me argue my patently-daft theories about Alex, I'm willing to take this to PM, but I'm not going to waste anyone else's time...

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:54 pm
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paladin181
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Grumplestiltskin wrote:
paladin181 wrote:

Or in this case, Alex just wants to punish others through the big faceless thing?


Dude, I already admitted I've been mooted by Lithp. Embarassed I cede any claim to the thread. But if you want to continue to listen to me argue my patently-daft theories about Alex, I'm willing to take this to PM, but I'm not going to waste anyone else's time...
It's not a completely daft idea. Don't be so harsh. There's even a fair amount of evidence to support it. I was just pointing out a similarity between your hypothesis and another story.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:58 pm
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