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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
[VIDEO] Entry #71
Moderators: Giskard, JKatkina, Zarggg
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Grumplestiltskin
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Marble Hornets wrote:
KTsteve wrote:
...I think we may see if Jay is "immune" to slendy rape or whatever soon here. Though I'm a big fan of the theory Jay's personality split at this point, and he now has a masked persona. It's not hoody or masky, but TTA.


We've seen TTA film Jay numerous times before. Jay can't be TTA, unless it's a future version of himself (in which case the series would be jumping the shark)


We've never actually seen TTA, that we know of. I mean, we may have seen TTA, but he/she was not identified as such at that time. What would have prevented say, Masky from filming Jay-as-Jay, but giving the tapes to Jay-as-TTA, who then worked his mad cryptological and editing skillz on the tapes, "sending" them to Jay later? Time travel is not necessary to make this option work.

PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 12:53 am
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sweetgums
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 		Did anyone catch what Jay said right after Alex attacks him? I think I hear an interrupted "what are you doing?"

PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 1:17 am
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EmeraldWind
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Joined: 20 May 2012
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Malckeor wrote:
Marble Hornets wrote:
KTsteve wrote:
I wonder if the years between Jay getting the tapes from Alex and his post on something awful are relevant?

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought Jay turned into sad panda.

About the "couple of bags" someone mentioned earlier, in the states we don't necessarily use words like "couple" or "few" correctly. They're pretty much interchangeable. i.e. If my grandma asked me to go to the store for a couple eggs, I'd grab a dozen. If she told me to grab a couple of eggs from the fridge, I would ask how many she needed, and it would probably be like 5.

I think we may see if Jay is "immune" to slendy rape or whatever soon here. Though I'm a big fan of the theory Jay's personality split at this point, and he now has a masked persona. It's not hoody or masky, but TTA.


We've seen TTA film Jay numerous times before. Jay can't be TTA, unless it's a future version of himself (in which case the series would be jumping the shark)


Yeah, this is the problem I have with Tribe Twelve. Time travel, paradoxes, alternate realities and all that crap, usually don't come off as very good plot devices, at least to me. Bioshock Infinite, Steins Gate and (most of) Doctor Who are exceptions, along with other things I can't remember right now.

Anyway,

brianlane723 wrote:
This entry has made me think seriously about an answer I've been pondering to the question of why Jay posted no entries and no tweets during the "lost" seven months between season 1 and season 2. What if Jay DID post entries and tweets, and we all watched them unfold, but when TO wiped Jay's memory, he also erased the entries and tweets and erased ALL OUR MEMORIES? I'm not sure how they would reveal that, but it would be a great twist at the end of the series.


I really like this. This would be a gloriously amazing mindfuck, but unfortunately, I wouldn't be included as I didn't get into Marble Hornets/the Mythos until around the time Entry 46 came out. Sad

...Or maybe I DID, and just can't remember? GLORIOUS!


Though Jay can still be TTA and get footage of himself without time travel. Firstly, we are pretty sure TTA had accomplices which is a far simpler explanation than a future Jay coming back in time to make things hard on himself. Not saying I believe Jay is TTA... but rather pointing out that complicated theories aren't necessary to explain the inconsistency.

What really bothers me though is like the previous attacks... I have this odd feeling that the victim literally died. I've had a theory that the Op can somehow revive the dead... but they come back weird. But there isn't any evidence for my theory, so I don't hold much in it myself. It is just weird that it fits to an extent. The biggest problem being Bruce, who may have been damaged beyond repair. Even then this doesn't fill a lot of the gaps. I'm just reminded of this theory every time we see an attack.

That said though when reading the transcript of Jay's original forum post...
I was struck by the initial summary of the Marble Hornets film.
"It was called Marble Hornets and I think it was about a twenty something returning to his childhood home and recalling events that happened there."
Perhaps MH has some relevance after all. Writers write what they know. Perhaps what we know about The film can shed some light on Alex. We know he didn't always live in the area. And his confession in 22 seems to say he ran from something and now needs to return home. Maybe MH was Alex subconsciously recalling something about his own past... did Alex return home before to find it different than he remembered or perhaps memories better left lost were recovered.

PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 1:27 am
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Marble Hornets
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Grumplestiltskin wrote:
Marble Hornets wrote:
KTsteve wrote:
...I think we may see if Jay is "immune" to slendy rape or whatever soon here. Though I'm a big fan of the theory Jay's personality split at this point, and he now has a masked persona. It's not hoody or masky, but TTA.


We've seen TTA film Jay numerous times before. Jay can't be TTA, unless it's a future version of himself (in which case the series would be jumping the shark)


We've never actually seen TTA, that we know of. I mean, we may have seen TTA, but he/she was not identified as such at that time. What would have prevented say, Masky from filming Jay-as-Jay, but giving the tapes to Jay-as-TTA, who then worked his mad cryptological and editing skillz on the tapes, "sending" them to Jay later? Time travel is not necessary to make this option work.


I don't get what you're trying to say. If you're going to say that TTA is Jay, you're going to have to take Exit and Return into consideration, both of which are TTA filming Jay in past and present. If TTA was made of multiple people, they would have surely been introduced by now (not just by being shown in a TTA video, I mean Jay/Tim/Alex should have ran into them by now - all they've ran into is Hoody). Also if TTA were multiple people including Jay, they'd have surely clued him in on his presence in the group by now.

PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 2:05 am
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Oransel
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Joined: 18 Jul 2012
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gazza wrote:
Actually, the tape where Alex speaks of Jay being "gone" ISN'T one of the tapes Alex gave to Jay. It's the tape that Jay found in the red tower three years later.


Ah, thanks for the reminder. Yes, it makes sense now.

PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 2:35 am
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Grumplestiltskin
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Marble Hornets wrote:
I don't get what you're trying to say. If you're going to say that TTA is Jay, you're going to have to take Exit and Return into consideration, both of which are TTA filming Jay in past and present. If TTA was made of multiple people, they would have surely been introduced by now (not just by being shown in a TTA video, I mean Jay/Tim/Alex should have ran into them by now - all they've ran into is Hoody). Also if TTA were multiple people including Jay, they'd have surely clued him in on his presence in the group by now.


I don't know if TTA is necessarily a group of individuals or not, but if we assume that TTA is just one person, there's nothing to prevent him from working with other people to make his creations, nothing to prevent him from using other people's existing films to make his own products (we've seen this plenty in those instances when he uses old educational films, old home movies, etc.), so why would it be impossible for TTA to use film that someone else might have shot (of Jay) and given to him (TTA).

Crazy Alter Ego Theory Ahoy:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
The larger idea is that Jay, Tim, and the Hoody person (I'm inclined to believe that this is Brian) are all possessed of different minds -- however you wanna call it: multiple personality disorder, fugue state, alter ego, whatever -- they each have a side that is attempting to absorb the unbearable reality of their knowledge of eldritch abomination TO. This frees up the "original" Jay, Tim, and (?)Brian to have normal-ish lives, to not have to try to bear up under these awful stresses and pains. So Tim has Masky, Hoody is the alter ego of whoever is under that ski mask, and Jay has TTA (whom, as paladin181 wisely pointed out to me, we have never actually seen as TTA -- his face is a mystery).

Jay and Tim are trying to find the truth of their situation, but they don't have reliable memories. TTA and Masky have those memories, but are not able to articulate them very well (possibly as a side effect of trauma) 0100111001101111001011000010000001110010011001010110000101101100011011000111100100111111, so they attempt to leave clues for Jay and Tim, clumsy clues, to be sure, but attempts to communicate.

I am aware that this is a highly speculative theory and I totally own my part in developing it to possibly ridiculous ends. I'd love to claim entire credit for it, but as with most things on these boards, it grew organically from a discussion between several people tossing around ideas late, late at night. The seed of it came from Little_Socrates, Lucifox and I twigged on the same idea almost simultaneously, and Jsor and Coolbro Swaggins provided counterarguments. And there're probably some people I'm forgetting, my apologies. Look around page six of this thread, that's where the meandering line of thought starts.

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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 4:03 am
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Lytrigian
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Grumplestiltskin wrote:
We've never actually seen TTA, that we know of. I mean, we may have seen TTA, but he/she was not identified as such at that time. What would have prevented say, Masky from filming Jay-as-Jay, but giving the tapes to Jay-as-TTA, who then worked his mad cryptological and editing skillz on the tapes, "sending" them to Jay later? Time travel is not necessary to make this option work.

It's not, but that makes for a needlessly complicated arrangement, arrived at for no better reason than to make it possible for Jay to somehow still be TTA, when there are no real clues pointing us in that direction. Yes, Jay does not seem particularly "damaged" other than the holes in his memory, but we already know that not everyone is affected by being Operated on in the same way. Masky and Hoody are very different types. It's reasonable for Jay to be a third type yet, who has assumed the role he has in all this precisely BECAUSE of how he's been affected.

But honestly -- I thought the graphic at the end was putting a bit of a lampshade on it all. Yes, Jay. We know there are holes in your memory. Like -- most of Season 2, for instance. Like all the work you personally did on the original MH project. Like those times when you teleported and vanished from your room in Season 1. Yes, Jay. Thank you for telling us you've forgotten something AGAIN. It's a bit late in the game to be shocked by it.

PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 4:26 am
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Beidah
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Lytrigian wrote:
Grumplestiltskin wrote:
We've never actually seen TTA, that we know of. I mean, we may have seen TTA, but he/she was not identified as such at that time. What would have prevented say, Masky from filming Jay-as-Jay, but giving the tapes to Jay-as-TTA, who then worked his mad cryptological and editing skillz on the tapes, "sending" them to Jay later? Time travel is not necessary to make this option work.

It's not, but that makes for a needlessly complicated arrangement, arrived at for no better reason than to make it possible for Jay to somehow still be TTA, when there are no real clues pointing us in that direction. Yes, Jay does not seem particularly "damaged" other than the holes in his memory, but we already know that not everyone is affected by being Operated on in the same way. Masky and Hoody are very different types. It's reasonable for Jay to be a third type yet, who has assumed the role he has in all this precisely BECAUSE of how he's been affected.

But honestly -- I thought the graphic at the end was putting a bit of a lampshade on it all. Yes, Jay. We know there are holes in your memory. Like -- most of Season 2, for instance. Like all the work you personally did on the original MH project. Like those times when you teleported and vanished from your room in Season 1. Yes, Jay. Thank you for telling us you've forgotten something AGAIN. It's a bit late in the game to be shocked by it.


It's not just that he's forgotten something here. He remembers that night, he remembers getting tapes from Alex and going home, but he doesn't remember being attacked. This is less a hole in his memory and more of a different memory.

PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 4:46 am
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Grumplestiltskin
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Lytrigian wrote:
It's not, but that makes for a needlessly complicated arrangement, arrived at for no better reason than to make it possible for Jay to somehow still be TTA, when there are no real clues pointing us in that direction.


Someone (sorry, I can't recall who, and I'm too bleary-eyed at this point to seek it out) pointed out that TTA has a remarkable facility for breaking in to Jay's YouTube & Twitter accounts. Now, several options to explain this exist: 1) Jay could just be making it waaay too easy by using a password easily guessed -- whereisjessica123, whatever, or 2) TTA could be an aspiring hacker, and is spending much of his time in trying to secure Jay's channels for his own use in spite of the fact that he has his own platforms from which to speak, or 3) TTA is Jay, and Jay is the personality that is unaware of this situation, and TTA is trying very hard to get his attention.

To my mind, this beats the hell out of time-travel as a plot option. But I can see why you might object to it.
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Like ['spoiler'], except ['deadpan']: would that make it obvious enough?

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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 4:50 am
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Lytrigian
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Grumplestiltskin wrote:
To my mind, this beats the hell out of time-travel as a plot option. But I can see why you might object to it.

I don't really object to it so much as see it as unnecessary. The "hackings" happen rarely enough that if TTA *did* have direct access to Jay's accounts, you'd think it'd happen more often.

It does provide an explanation for why TTA seems to know things about Jay that Jay has not yet revealed, such as the fact he'd been taping himself in "Messages" -- but TTA has taped Jay often enough that this weird dance of exchanging tapes seems a bit much.

PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 5:26 am
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censura_umbra
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Grumplestiltskin wrote:
Lytrigian wrote:
It's not, but that makes for a needlessly complicated arrangement, arrived at for no better reason than to make it possible for Jay to somehow still be TTA, when there are no real clues pointing us in that direction.


Someone (sorry, I can't recall who, and I'm too bleary-eyed at this point to seek it out)


It was me who went on the Jay = TTA rant It's a theory I've held since TTA first uploaded something on the MH channel. Back then it was dismissed as nonsense. But as TTA "Hacked" Jay more and more I couldn't let it go. Think about it, when someone you know claims to be hacked, what REALLY happened? They forgot to sign out. Jay falls asleep, TTA wakes up, goes to the computer, and opens YouTube. Which is why it doesn't matter how many times Jay changes his password.

For those saying "But TTA filmed Jay!!!"
No.
TTA used a clip of Jay being filmed. We don't know who was holding the camera, it could have easily been Hoody or Masky. It is fairly obvious that TTA is working with Hoody after the video posted on Alex's Birthday. TTA isn't a group of people, TTA is one person, the YouTube channel operator and leader. Masky and Hoody are just accomplices. Yes I know that in a TTA video it said "Come find me" and was referring to Masky, but that doesn't mean Masky made the video. It is just another way of saying go find him. Like the opposite of speaking in Third Person. For example, like when you talk for your pet or baby (Is that just me? o.o)

Also, the personality makes sense out of other things that I mentioned before.

A major thing is, Where did Jay sleep walk to when he teleported? How did he wake up outside Brian's house? If that happened to Tim, we would instantly blame it on Masky. Why do we not blame Jay's alter ego?
Also, it can explain easily how TTA had MH tapes that Jay didn't (he just took them from the plastic bag before Jay saw them). And how that file was on Jay's hard drive. (It was a little cryptic for Jay to just to have forgot he put it there)

Also, how is Jay not "gone"? How is Tim not "Gone"? Their alter egos took on most of the slendy mind rape. That is how they survived.

I think it there is anything this season is showing us is 1) Tim's history with TO (why? to show what exposure does) 2) Alex's change from TO (I would argue another alter ego, albeit a violent angry one) 3) Jay has more in common with Tim and Alex than we first thought.

In previous seasons, Jay seemed like an innocent bystander, whose only purpose was to be a witness to the strange happenings. But now, we see Jay was involved much more than he or we initially thought. We've seen direct correlations between Alex and Jay.

It would not be out of place for this all to be leading to a reveal the Jay is just as fucked up as Tim and Alex. Remember, Tim probably thought he was normal (except for some memory loss and sleep walking) until Jay showed him the truth.

I would not be surprised to eventually see a Tim filmed entry where he is attacked by a new masked man, who is demasked and revealed to be Jay. Similar to how Tim was revealed.

PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 5:48 am
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aidansean
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Bernie Buddy wrote:
aidansean wrote:
If Alex is going to knock Jay out then hide the tapes I doubt he'd have footage of Jay conscious in there.


I don't think he was concious. That scene mirrored that one scene in #Entry 52, along with that one ToTheArk video where Jay is sitting and staring up as the Operator walks past him.


Jay definitely moves his head at 4:29. Even if he's in a fugue state or something, why would Alex knock him out, call the operator for some fuguing, and then deposit Jay and the tapes at home? I think the only way that can make sense is if a) Jay wakes up on the ride home and needs to be unconsciousified again, or if b) the operator shows up without Alex expecting it and does its thing. I think that the makers would have shown us more if something like this had happened.

PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 5:55 am
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Lithp
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Quote:

TTA used a clip of Jay being filmed. We don't know who was holding the camera, it could have easily been Hoody or Masky. It is fairly obvious that TTA is working with Hoody after the video posted on Alex's Birthday.


Implying that ToTheArk isn't Hoody or Hoody + Masky.

PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 6:30 am
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Sha Noran
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 		I'm sad I could only post a bit before work and now I'm back to post some other things to consider.

First of all, to Lithp, who was the only one to comment on my post directly. I think you may be right that Bruce was on concrete in 65, but I still think there was the same vibe in the scene: the way Jay was in this entry when he was left, sort of in a spotlight that seemed out of place. My first thought was of Bruce from 65. That someone might roll up on Jay laying there, roll him over, and be like oh SHIT this guy is dead! Kind of the way Alex ran from the body was very similar to how Tim fled from the Brucecorpse. Remember, the distortion WE saw is not necessarily something Alex noticed in real time, as the distortion in clips does not seem to register with the character who is filming usually.

Which brings me to another point. I really felt like Jay died. I think the Jay that posted the entries and spoke with us on Twitter just isn't the same Jay from this tape, or from the original MH filming at all. Call it wacky, but that's how it felt. Maybe Alex didn't finish him off, but for Jay to simply not recall this and DEFINITIVELY STATE that this is not how he remembers it... Ok for example, after the beating and relocation Alex clearly put him through, even if he woke up in bed with no memories... Wouldn't he have bruises? A black eye? A sore neck from being roughly strangled? A brutal headache? I mean, he doesn't remember any of this, and as derpy as Jay might be, he doesn't seem like a stupid guy. Like, at least not retarded. And once again I reinforce that you guys are ignoring the interesting aspect of lack of THE MEMORY EXISTING versus a person simply forgetting or lying.

And I'm simply sad you guys aren't talking about the Operator's shadow rolling up on an awed/dumbstruck looking Jay just before the film gets really creepy distorted. That was the best part of the entry to me. Like come on guys, at that point, Jay is OWNED! What happened here?! And its not Alex's shadow because SOMEONE filmed the clip... Come on now, the tall shadow is TO.

Also what is the clip at the moment after we see Alex setting up the camera but super distorted? Lemme review the Entry again and get the exact moment from the clip. It looked like someone walking? Checking now for time.

PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 7:22 am
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aidansean
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Sha Noran wrote:
And once again I reinforce that you guys are ignoring the interesting aspect of lack of THE MEMORY EXISTING versus a person simply forgetting or lying.


Yeah, this is interesting. We know the operator can go back and wipe memories, and I think that's what happened here. If Alex was the one who wiped the memories he would have had to drugged Jay at some point, which would have the same effect, only not retroactively like the operator's wiping. It's probably the operator though because:

Sha Noran wrote:
And its not Alex's shadow because SOMEONE filmed the clip... Come on now, the tall shadow is TO.


This part very much reminded me of Return. It's definitely the operator, operatin'.

PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 7:34 am
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