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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
[VIDEO] Entry #71
Moderators: Giskard, JKatkina, Zarggg
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Ztakk
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Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Posts: 868

 		I understand what you're saying about the entries about finding tapes is more exciting as long as that's not the whole entry.

I liked the set up with Jay stealing the tape from Alex's house. The whole breaking in thing and then suddenly he's in a tight spot hiding from Alex and then the Operator shows up, and Jay has to break back in later. It was all just really exciting to me.

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 7:18 pm
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bdhuffman42
Greenhorn

Joined: 21 May 2013
Posts: 5

 		While I agree that these episodes are very exciting and would love more like them, I'd like to point out that you can't have nothing but "action" entries or the whole thing would seem too unrealistic. I know that using realism as an excuse could open up another bag of worms, but it's true none the less.

If we had action heavy entries all the time it would take away from how good this is overall.

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 8:27 pm
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Ztakk
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Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Posts: 868
bdhuffman42 wrote:
While I agree that these episodes are very exciting and would love more like them, I'd like to point out that you can't have nothing but "action" entries or the whole thing would seem too unrealistic. I know that using realism as an excuse could open up another bag of worms, but it's true none the less.

If we had action heavy entries all the time it would take away from how good this is overall.


That is true, but at the same time we've had an influx of entries that don't do anything it seems. It doesn't move the plot forward at all, nobody seems to do a whole lot, raises more questions than they answer, and all they've been doing is finding tapes (that in turn either don't show much, or raise even MORE questions)

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:20 am
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CraicIsMighty
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Joined: 03 Aug 2011
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 		Yeah...I'd be lying if I said I didn't think season 3 has been a little disappointing thus far. It started out pretty promising too. Entry 53 was hilarious with Jay's awkward interactions with Tim and Entry 54 was pretty good but after that it started to get really repetitive and every entry only seems to move the plot forward by an inch.

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 2:02 pm
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paladin181
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Joined: 14 Nov 2011
Posts: 502
bdhuffman42 wrote:
While I agree that these episodes are very exciting and would love more like them, I'd like to point out that you can't have nothing but "action" entries or the whole thing would seem too unrealistic. I know that using realism as an excuse could open up another bag of worms, but it's true none the less.

If we had action heavy entries all the time it would take away from how good this is overall.
Spoiler for OOG and Off Topic discussion:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Suspension of disbelief is funny like that. I liken it to Skyrim. People on the mod forum were complaining that having no hunger or hypothermia just took them out of the game, that those factors made it too unrealistic.... I scoffed and said "But shooting fire out of your hand ad a 40 foot long Lizard that is shouting death at you makes you feel right at home?"

People will never get their own irony.

However, I understand what you mean about the whole realism part. Our minds are willing to suspend disbelief in certain fashions for extended periods of time. Creepy weird things, we can get into. Totally alien concepts, sure. Physics and laws that have a basis in nature? Sure. People exhibiting too much stupidity or too much action? WTF? IT's weird like that.


PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 10:58 pm
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Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
Posts: 2058
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
That is not ironic. No, literally, that is not an example of irony.

Furthermore, that's not really hard to believe at all. Magic & dragons are what you might call "acceptable departures from reality." Going in, you know that certain things exist in the world. You assume that everything else is supposed to function based on conventional physics.

These assumptions are important to establishing the conflict.

Of course, you are ALSO talking about conservation of detail--not including things because they are unimportant & boring. What things you can exclude really depend on the genre. It is unsurprising that there is a dispute about what details should be conserved in Marble Hornets, because there is an ongoing dispute as to whether it's a webseries/movie, or if it's an ARG/interactive/real time thing.


PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:39 pm
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Ztakk
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Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Posts: 868

 		It's a real-time web series. It's definitely not an ARG, as there's nothing the fans do that impact the story, and there's not anything that brings the fans in as integral and necessary to the story itself

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 12:31 am
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Marble Hornets
Entrenched


Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 946
bdhuffman42 wrote:
While I agree that these episodes are very exciting and would love more like them, I'd like to point out that you can't have nothing but "action" entries or the whole thing would seem too unrealistic. I know that using realism as an excuse could open up another bag of worms, but it's true none the less.

If we had action heavy entries all the time it would take away from how good this is overall.



This is a complaint I keep reading on here. I for one, appreciate story and action roughly equally. However, I think it's wrong to assume people are saying season 3 is worse than 1 or 2 due to it being mostly story and not so much action. I personally think most of the story entries were pretty lackluster (not to say there weren't good moments. Tim realizing he may be the one to blame was a great scene)

Ultimately, I just feel like season 3, when I compare it to 1 and 2, feels like less work went into it. Whether it be time constraints or writers block, it just doesn't come off as fleshed out as 1 or 2 did. I get that some people may hold them to a higher standard of quality (as i myself do), but I disagree with the notion that the reason some people dislike s3 bc there are less action entries.

As far as people having "different expectations" - i disagree with that notion as well. I think that you have to judge the series as a whole, not dividing it into action and non-action entries. As a result, someone with higher expectations will expect the story scenes to have more content, and the action scenes to have more impact, not biasing one over the other. Different expectations would work in a case where someone has admitted to only wanting action entries, but I don't think most fans fit that criteria. Without story, not nearly as many people would have watched this far.

I think that we will all have to hold our judgment until after the series is confirmed to be over. Many people probably have higher expectations bc we're assuming we're near the end, but we may only be halfway for all we know.

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 1:24 pm
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paladin181
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Joined: 14 Nov 2011
Posts: 502
Lithp wrote:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
That is not ironic. No, literally, that is not an example of irony.

Furthermore, that's not really hard to believe at all. Magic & dragons are what you might call "acceptable departures from reality." Going in, you know that certain things exist in the world. You assume that everything else is supposed to function based on conventional physics.

These assumptions are important to establishing the conflict.

Of course, you are ALSO talking about conservation of detail--not including things because they are unimportant & boring. What things you can exclude really depend on the genre. It is unsurprising that there is a dispute about what details should be conserved in Marble Hornets, because there is an ongoing dispute as to whether it's a webseries/movie, or if it's an ARG/interactive/real time thing.


Spoiler (Rollover to View):
The irony here is people complaining about realism in a medium designed to exist in a fantasy realm. About everything else, yeah, that was so much my point, the way our brains work to suspend disbelief in a chosen story or interaction.


PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:07 pm
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George G
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Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Posts: 115
paladin181 wrote:
Lithp wrote:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
That is not ironic. No, literally, that is not an example of irony.

Furthermore, that's not really hard to believe at all. Magic & dragons are what you might call "acceptable departures from reality." Going in, you know that certain things exist in the world. You assume that everything else is supposed to function based on conventional physics.

These assumptions are important to establishing the conflict.

Of course, you are ALSO talking about conservation of detail--not including things because they are unimportant & boring. What things you can exclude really depend on the genre. It is unsurprising that there is a dispute about what details should be conserved in Marble Hornets, because there is an ongoing dispute as to whether it's a webseries/movie, or if it's an ARG/interactive/real time thing.


Spoiler (Rollover to View):
The irony here is people complaining about realism in a medium designed to exist in a fantasy realm. About everything else, yeah, that was so much my point, the way our brains work to suspend disbelief in a chosen story or interaction.


I am not 100% sure I understand you correctly, so maybe what I will say will not actually contradict the point you are trying to make, but here's the thing: just because a story is set in a universe that features fantastic elements does not mean that this story can't be legitimately criticized for being unrealistic. When applied to a fantastic story the word 'realistic' means that it follows its own internal logic, once accept the fantastic premise and the world 'unrealistic' means that the internal logic is being violated. For example, if you write a story set in a world that has dragons and a story features a scene where the dragons attack people and the people run away, there is nothing at all unrealistic about it, because that is how things would happen in the real world if dragons actually existed. On the other hand if there's a scene, where a dragon attacks people, and people start break-dancing and then gradually dissolve into strawberry yoghurt, that would be extremely unrealistic, even for a story set in a fantastic world and it would be perfectly understandable for the readers to complain about it. (Unless the author provided an actual logical explanation for the scene, yoghurt, break-dancing and all.)

Maybe we actually are in agreement here, but it really gets on my nerves when I see somebody trying to criticize, say, Harry Potter books saying something like: "This scene is unrealistic, teenagers don't really act/speak/behave that way!" and somebody else says: "Ha, ha, silly person, complaining about the lack of realism in a book that has magic wands in it!" This makes my blood boil. What makes the story realistic/unrealistic is not the presence/absence of fantastic elements, it's whether or not the story correctly describes how the world would look if those fantastic element actually existed, whether or not it gets the logic right. It's about consistency/inconsistency. The presence of the fantastic does not grant the story immunity.
_________________
Imagine four balls on the edge of a cliff_____________________OOOO

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:47 pm
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paladin181
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Joined: 14 Nov 2011
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Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Actually, my statement was about people complaining about not having to eat/sleep/drink/poo in a game and that, being unrealistic, was ruining their realism simulation experience. My counter argument was about extreme realism in a world where you yell about fire and things ignite, similar to the one that upsets you. But then, the people in your example weren't complaining about the lack of every possible mundane action whilst playing a video game. You missed my point by a hairsbreadth.


PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:58 pm
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George G
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Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Posts: 115
paladin181 wrote:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Actually, my statement was about people complaining about not having to eat/sleep/drink/poo in a game and that, being unrealistic, was ruining their realism simulation experience. My counter argument was about extreme realism in a world where you yell about fire and things ignite, similar to the one that upsets you. But then, the people in your example weren't complaining about the lack of every possible mundane action whilst playing a video game. You missed my point by a hairsbreadth.


Spoiler (Rollover to View):

The thing with Skyrim is that even though you don't have to eat, farmers are still growing crops and selling them. Even though it's impossible to freeze to death, there are still fireplaces in people's houses. Even though you don't have to poop there are... wait, actually there are no toilets in Skyrim, I guess there is no problem there. So, technically speaking those things are unrealistic, because they create contradictions. Magic and dragons, by comparison, mostly behave how you would expect them to. (Well, except when the dragons are flying backwards and glitching all over the place.) But this is an acceptable kind of un-realism, the kind that makes the game more fun, so I have no problem with it. In computer games realism often goes out the window, which is to be expected.

_________________
Imagine four balls on the edge of a cliff_____________________OOOO

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 4:28 pm
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twistedpuppet
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Joined: 18 Feb 2012
Posts: 950
Location: New avatar based on art made by @TheGinky for me for my birthday.

 		I find it funny that people think Season 1 had more thought put into it than Season 3 since Troy and company have already said they were just making shit up as they went in Season 1. For Season 3, they even had an outline.

I'm going to be honest. I don't know where you guys are getting that something most of the entries are filler, or that they don't move the plot and aren't interesting. I wouldn't keep watching this unless it was interesting. I have stopped watching shows in the past because I just lost interest. I just don't see the things you guys are complaining about. Maybe it's my prior interests in how the movie making process works. Maybe it's my own prior experiences majoring Mass Communications emphasis on Radio and Television Broadcasting. Maybe it's my own weird outlook on movies, tv, an literature. I don't know, but I don't see any of the complaints you guys make as being valid because I watch the same entry and I get more out of it than you claim you're getting. So, I get frustrated when you sit here, claiming to be a fan, and then you completely trash the very thing you claim you're a fan of.

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 4:52 pm
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Marble Hornets
Entrenched


Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 946
twistedpuppet wrote:
I find it funny that people think Season 1 had more thought put into it than Season 3 since Troy and company have already said they were just making shit up as they went in Season 1. For Season 3, they even had an outline.

I'm going to be honest. I don't know where you guys are getting that something most of the entries are filler, or that they don't move the plot and aren't interesting. I wouldn't keep watching this unless it was interesting. I have stopped watching shows in the past because I just lost interest. I just don't see the things you guys are complaining about. Maybe it's my prior interests in how the movie making process works. Maybe it's my own prior experiences majoring Mass Communications emphasis on Radio and Television Broadcasting. Maybe it's my own weird outlook on movies, tv, an literature. I don't know, but I don't see any of the complaints you guys make as being valid because I watch the same entry and I get more out of it than you claim you're getting. So, I get frustrated when you sit here, claiming to be a fan, and then you completely trash the very thing you claim you're a fan of.



To be fair, I've never seen you make a complaint about the series in all of the topics i've read over the past few weeks. You've even gone so far as to defend the series in the rage topic. Even hardcore fans like myself can find things wrong with the series.

To say that a lot of the entries don't move the plot along isn't wrong, but it's not right either. I think some people just expect it to move more than it actually does. Sure there's no real filler entries, but some of the entries move the plot along so minisculely (entry 55, for example) that they might as well be labeled that.

I don't mean to start anything and I hope you don't take that in offense. I can't read your mind, I can only read what you post. A lot of your argumentative posts are defending things that are clearly problems with the series in my eyes. I'm not calling you a fanboy, I'm just saying if you want me to not immediately think you're defending something for the wrong reasons, show me you can actually be critical of the series. I may be overlooking these critical posts of yours, but your userpicture is one that stands out to me, and i always associate it with defending the series til death


Also I didn't mean to say season 1 had more thought put into it than season 3. I meant that season 1 had more of an impact on me than season 3 has had. Rewatching the entire series in one shot, season 1 to me is a little more enjoyable and less bland. I think one of my main issues with most of season 3 is that Tim is the only character we see in a lot of the entries (since jay is behind the camera) and it felt like there was very little diversity in the cast until alex came back

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 6:43 pm
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twistedpuppet
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Joined: 18 Feb 2012
Posts: 950
Location: New avatar based on art made by @TheGinky for me for my birthday.
Marble Hornets wrote:



To be fair, I've never seen you make a complaint about the series in all of the topics i've read over the past few weeks. You've even gone so far as to defend the series in the rage topic. Even hardcore fans like myself can find things wrong with the series.

To say that a lot of the entries don't move the plot along isn't wrong, but it's not right either. I think some people just expect it to move more than it actually does. Sure there's no real filler entries, but some of the entries move the plot along so minisculely (entry 55, for example) that they might as well be labeled that.

I don't mean to start anything and I hope you don't take that in offense. I can't read your mind, I can only read what you post. A lot of your argumentative posts are defending things that are clearly problems with the series in my eyes. I'm not calling you a fanboy, I'm just saying if you want me to not immediately think you're defending something for the wrong reasons, show me you can actually be critical of the series. I may be overlooking these critical posts of yours, but your userpicture is one that stands out to me, and i always associate it with defending the series til death


Also I didn't mean to say season 1 had more thought put into it than season 3. I meant that season 1 had more of an impact on me than season 3 has had. Rewatching the entire series in one shot, season 1 to me is a little more enjoyable and less bland. I think one of my main issues with most of season 3 is that Tim is the only character we see in a lot of the entries (since jay is behind the camera) and it felt like there was very little diversity in the cast until alex came back



Probably the biggest reason I'm not too critical of the series is because I know it's low budget. I know these guys aren't professionals, but what they do with what they have amazes the fuck out of me. Sure, there are entries that don't blow me away, but for some reason, I find it harder to trash the series for a few amateur mistakes. Maybe this is because I take into account what goes into making a video of any sort because I've been there. I've taken classes where we had to go out and film something and when we started doing non-linear editing, that's where stuff really takes a long time. You'd think it be really quick, but then you sit there and take 6 to 8 hours on a 90 second news story, and you begin to see that it's not as easy as it looks. Not to mention, it took a good 2 or 3 hours just to film everything you needed for that 90 second news story.

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:22 pm
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