Return to Unfiction unforum
 a.r.g.b.b 
FAQ FAQ   Search Search 
 
Welcome!
New users, PLEASE read these forum guidelines. New posters, SEARCH before posting and read these rules before posting your killer new campaign. New players may also wish to peruse the ARG Player Tutorial.

All users must abide by the Terms of Service.
Website Restoration Project
This archiving project is a collaboration between Unfiction and Sean Stacey (SpaceBass), Brian Enigma (BrianEnigma), and Laura E. Hall (lehall) with
the Center for Immersive Arts.
Announcements
This is a static snapshot of the
Unfiction forums, as of
July 23, 2017.
This site is intended as an archive to chronicle the history of Alternate Reality Games.
  

The time now is Wed Nov 13, 2024 2:00 am
All times are UTC - 4 (DST in action)		 View posts in this forum since last visit
View unanswered posts in this forum
Calendar
 Forum index » Meta » Puppetmaster Help
Present or Future in ARGs?
Moderators: imbri
View previous topicView next topic
Page 1 of 1 [12 Posts]  
Author Message
Varin
I Have No Life


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 2456
Location: South of where I used to be

 		Present or Future in ARGs?
Without revealing too much - in discussions about the Mini-ARG the issue of having an ARG set in the future rather than the present came up.

So I'm trying to broaden my horizons here and expand my narrow view of what an ARG is here. I came onto the scene after the Beast. From what I've been told and have read, it was set in the future. How was this handled? Were there limitations on what could be done with player interaction? Snail Mail? Chats? Was it hard to suspend belief when interacting with a character of the future. The only experience I've had with this sort of thing was in Acheron, but Jake had a time machine so it was pretty much explained.

Is there a preference for you - past, present or future? Or doesn't it matter?
_________________
"I still miss him to this day and probably always will." - Todd Keeler, Chasing the Wish

"meta meta meta, I made you out of play..." ~ j5

PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 11:07 pm
Last edited by Varin on Mon Mar 22, 2004 1:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
 View user's profile Visit poster's website AIM Address
 Back to top 
Simulacra
Veteran


Joined: 17 May 2003
Posts: 123
Location: Down the rabbithole

 		Re: Present or Future in ARGs?
Varin wrote:
Is there a preference for you - past, present or future? Or doesn't it matter?


I think that extremely "unreal" stuff can distrupt the immersive experience. This includes people from the future, but not necessarily people from the past (who might have left documents etc. behind). I have more of a problem with believing in the internet, since there is so much wierd stuff and spoofs there already. I wish more ARGs used other mediums such as radio, letters and physical meetings.
_________________
The truth is out there, but it's keeping itself well hidden.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:54 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
jamesi
Sentient Being


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 2195
Location: Canadia

 		Re: Present or Future in ARGs?
Varin wrote:
Without revealing too much - in discussions about the Mini-ARG the issue of having an ARG set in the future rather than the past came up.

So I'm trying to broaden my horizons here and expand my narrow view of what an ARG is here. I came onto the scene after the Beast. From what I've been told and have read, it was set in the future. How was this handled? Were there limitations on what could be done with player interaction? Snail Mail? Chats? Was it hard to suspend belief when interacting with a character of the future. The only experience I've had with this sort of thing was in Acheron, but Jake had a time machine so it was pretty much explained.

Is there a preference for you - past, present or future? Or doesn't it matter?


I think the suspension of disbelief was quite high, as many players (myself included) stepped into their world when I was participating in the game itself. This was very important when it came time for the Mike Royal live telephone chat. The game was sucessful not in how it meshed with current day affairs, but in how it remained consistent with its own timeline. In short, it wasn't that the characters came back in time to involve us, but rather, we went forward in time to be involved.

Makes no sense, I know... but it's the best way I can explain it.
_________________
Digital Trail | Twitter | Retired ARGFest-o-Con 2012 Project Manager

PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 1:27 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website
 Back to top 
vpisteve
Asshatministrator


Joined: 30 Sep 2002
Posts: 2441
Location: 1987

 		You know, looking back on it, The Beast got away with a surprising amount of stuff that really required a hefty suspense of disbelief on the players' part. The phone call, faxes, all the interaction with people and things in the future, was never really explained. I mean, how am I able to call someplace in the future???

Jamesi put it well when he said that we, as players, basically stepped into the world they created. It didn't matter that it didn't make sense. It didn't matter that there would be a meeting of people in the future, but it was at a bar in the present, or that there were puzzles that didn't necessarily have a logical reason for being there.

I can't put my finger on exactly why these things didn't matter, they just didn't. Confused Very Happy

Maybe it was because the game established its own rules along the way. All I know is it worked. And it worked well.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 2:20 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
 Back to top 
Flynn
Decorated


Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Posts: 240
Location: UK
vpisteve wrote:
All I know is it worked. And it worked well


I guess the question is, would it work now? The genre has evolved since then, as far as I can tell, so would it still work?

PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 7:54 pm
 View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger
 Back to top 
jamesi
Sentient Being


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 2195
Location: Canadia
Flynn wrote:
I guess the question is, would it work now? The genre has evolved since then, as far as I can tell, so would it still work?


Anytime you can get a dedicated group of game players together, willing to immersive themselves into another world, you can make things work. Even with a game like Lockjaw, which was timecoded in real time 21st century, there was a degree of the 'suspension of disbelief' menatliy, as people found out rather quickly that there was no Moreland, West Virginia, or that the GNMD stock was not actually readily available to pruchase on the NYSE. So, whether the disbelief comes from the setting, the characters, or the science involved, as long as the players are willing to play along (which, incidentally, seperates the 'good' games from the 'bad' ones -- the players must want to continue to play), your game will be successful.
_________________
Digital Trail | Twitter | Retired ARGFest-o-Con 2012 Project Manager

PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:05 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website
 Back to top 
Sunny du Pree
Unfettered


Joined: 01 Jan 2003
Posts: 636
Location: Push, Nevada
jamesi wrote:
Flynn wrote:
I guess the question is, would it work now? The genre has evolved since then, as far as I can tell, so would it still work?


Anytime you can get a dedicated group of game players together, willing to immersive themselves into another world, you can make things work. Even with a game like Lockjaw, which was timecoded in real time 21st century, there was a degree of the 'suspension of disbelief' menatliy, as people found out rather quickly that there was no Moreland, West Virginia, or that the GNMD stock was not actually readily available to pruchase on the NYSE. So, whether the disbelief comes from the setting, the characters, or the science involved, as long as the players are willing to play along (which, incidentally, seperates the 'good' games from the 'bad' ones -- the players must want to continue to play), your game will be successful.


I look at ARGs as a Novel that is unfolding around me and because of me...
I can take that leap and accept the fact that I will be taken to new worlds and realities without being bogged down with the real life day to day details...this is taking "dress up" and "lets pretend" to a whole new level.
You just agree to the suspension of disbelief
No matter how good you are at creating a diff reality there is always going to be someone out there to disprove it.
It is the ones that want to play that have the most fun.
_________________
Grace and Peace
Sunny Du Pree
I dreamed a dream and now that dream has come for me

PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:00 am
 View user's profile AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
 Back to top 
rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

 		Good Question
Is the essence of "suspension of disbelief" the concept that the PM's remain hidden? As long as the player's don't see the hidden people creating the world, the actual setting of the game in time and place may not be critical for a player to believe that it is real. Or at least, as jamesi said, "play along."

For me, a more difficult question to overcome is the obvious need to work puzzles into the game. Outside of the people I know here, I haven't met anyone who communicates information through puzzles. At my firm, the tech guys are constantly complaining about passwords being too easy to guess, even though we have lots of sensitive information to protect. No need to make puzzles for hints!

PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:11 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website
 Back to top 
bill
Unfettered


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 614
Location: Tampa

 		PM Anonyminity is not the essence of suspension of disbelief, but I think it certainly makes it easier. To 'lose yourself' in an obviously false world, it tends to be helpful if you don't keep seeing blatant reminders of it being false.

For some people, meta conversation blows the game. For others, contrived puzzles do it.

The more outlandish the premise for the game (e.g. time travel, future setting), the more important it is (I think) to make the other elements believable.

I find it interesting that not one game has dealt with a completely ficitional, but 100% plausible premise. There has always been some supernatural or scientifically absurd core premise. It makes the suspension of disbelief mandatory and really heightens the need for good storytelling skills to get the audience truly immersed.
_________________
Bill
http://deaddrop.us/
Dedicated to Alternate Reality Gaming

PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:37 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
 Back to top 
Varin
I Have No Life


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 2456
Location: South of where I used to be

 		Thanks for the feedback guys. I guess for me, I can for some reason I can believe that there are mystical beings running around in the game or I can believe that we are all in the Matrix because it can fit nicely into my life. I mean, I don't know everything about the world so theoretically those things are possible. My real life could go on as normal and I could still be helping Dale battle mystical beings.

With the future setting though, I can't really pretend that my real life is a part of the future. All that would have to happen is that I get that piece of mail from someone in the future with that 2004 stamped on it. I don't want to have to overlook details like that. I want to be fully immersed. (Man, I'm starting to sound like a headcase here Wink )

Now, I could see a future setting if these sorts of inconsistencies were explained. Like... the mail was sent in 2004 (during the character's past) knowing that I would be needed to help the character in the future. Or something like that, you know what I mean Rolling Eyes

Man I wish I was a part of this scene earlier Crying or Very sad
_________________
"I still miss him to this day and probably always will." - Todd Keeler, Chasing the Wish

"meta meta meta, I made you out of play..." ~ j5

PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:41 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website AIM Address
 Back to top 
MageSteff
Pretty talky there aintcha, Talky?


Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 2716
Location: State of Denial

 		Re: Good Question
rose wrote:
Is the essence of "suspension of disbelief" the concept that the PM's remain hidden? As long as the player's don't see the hidden people creating the world, the actual setting of the game in time and place may not be critical for a player to believe that it is real. Or at least, as jamesi said, "play along."

For me, a more difficult question to overcome is the obvious need to work puzzles into the game. Outside of the people I know here, I haven't met anyone who communicates information through puzzles. At my firm, the tech guys are constantly complaining about passwords being too easy to guess, even though we have lots of sensitive information to protect. No need to make puzzles for hints!


We have the "suspension of disbelief" any time we read a novel or short story or any work of fiction. Does having the writer's name on the cover change your ability to immerse yourself in the book?

I agree with Bill, that it is the mundane items that surround the fantastic ones, the truthfulness of the known science that backs up the premise, fully realized characters, and a sense that there is more to the fictional universe than the part that is on display.

Puzzles are not my thing, but there are those who live for them. It is part of the ARG genre, it's expected, much like a hard bitten detective in pulp novels. No, I guess we do not have to make puzzles for hints at passwords, but players may not be able to get the information that one can glean in real life from looking a person's office decor. Players do not have the same level of interaction with characters that you might get from talking to someone on a daily basis or overhearing a conversation in the hallway. So in one sense, the puzzles are an abstract representation of that. The other aspect is, while it might be possible to do some geocaching of physical clues, such as a computer CD, or artworks, the games are open to players from around the globe and many do not have the resources to fly, drive or boat to a different continent in search of clues. That having been said, I do believe that they nature of the puzzles must reflect the nature of the game and not just be randomly placed for their own sake.
_________________
Magesteff
A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead


PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 5:34 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
 Back to top 
Simulacra
Veteran


Joined: 17 May 2003
Posts: 123
Location: Down the rabbithole

 		Re: Good Question
Magesteff wrote:
The other aspect is, while it might be possible to do some geocaching of physical clues, such as a computer CD, or artworks, the games are open to players from around the globe and many do not have the resources to fly, drive or boat to a different continent in search of clues.


I don't think that every ARG has to be global, because while you gain reach you lose interaction possibilities. A local can be so much more immersive, since you can not only hide objects but also have intense real-life interaction. I don't believe half the stuff I read on the web anyway, so having a meeting with an actual person (for example) could be so much more immersive. I think it's time for some PMs to stop hiding behind that curtain and come out in full disguise.
_________________
The truth is out there, but it's keeping itself well hidden.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 7:46 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 1 of 1 [12 Posts]  
View previous topicView next topic
 Forum index » Meta » Puppetmaster Help
Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
You cannot post calendar events in this forum



Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group