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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Slender Man Mythos
What are the reasons for unsuccessful Slender Man series?
Moderators: ChildOfAtom, Cougar Draven, DavFlamerock, Dixie_Wolf, ndemeter
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Corvus42
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In my case, I planned it out, then realised trying to do it entirely on your own when you've got exams coming up doesn't really work.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:21 pm
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Peppercorn
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A lot of people, myself included, are reluctant to try new series because even though plenty of scary new directions can be taken with Slender Man, a lot of series just stick to cliches and cannot make a name for themselves. There comes a point where it gets so tiresome to sift through the victims of Sturgeon's Law that you just give up and only look at the popular stuff.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:30 pm
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zbeeblebrox
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Even with talented creators, though, youtube isn't the friendliest place for this kind of thing, ironically enough. If you aren't uploading on a predictable schedule, you'll vanish. If you're not willing to brave months or years of obscurity while posting video after video right on time for a low 3-digit audience, before finally being noticed, you'll vanish. If you need to delay uploads because you want to put more effort into the quality of your videos, you'll vanish.

The reason a "Big 3" even exists is because they all became popular before these rules needed to be followed. They broke the threshold for needing new viewers, so they can get away with doing that stuff. But everyone trying to emulate them is trying to emulate a deprecated strategy. So the Big 3 coast on what they have, and everyone else gets washed away.

Getting views on Youtube today, no matter your content, means following two rules above all else: consistency and frequency. Uploading must be consistent. Uploading must be frequent. Every new Slenderman series I've observed recently - regardless of quality - has broken both of those rules within an average of five to ten videos. An amount that should eventually account for about 1%-10% of total uploads on a completed series. 1%-10% of disciplined uploading behavior before impatience kicks in, or misjudged expectations derail their efforts. Of course they're unsuccessful.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:45 am
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xemnasvii
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Is two per month cool
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:45 pm
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Lithp
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I'd be happy with a 2-digit audience.

One thing I'd note, it's a pretty consistent pattern that most resources & attention go to a handful of successful competitors. The term "Big 3" also exists in shonen manga fandom for the same reason. There are a million other political parties in America besides Democrat & Republican. A network will most often air its most successful 2 or 3 shows, & give them the best time slots. Child of Atom mentioned the example of comic book publishers. And so on. It's a pretty consistent pattern.

So what I think you're going to see is that, once the current "Big 3" end, there will be a lot of competition, & then another small group of series will be elevated to that status, while everything else sinks back to the status quo.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:24 am
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Checkmite
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Peppercorn wrote:
A lot of people, myself included, are reluctant to try new series because even though plenty of scary new directions can be taken with Slender Man, a lot of series just stick to cliches and cannot make a name for themselves. There comes a point where it gets so tiresome to sift through the victims of Sturgeon's Law that you just give up and only look at the popular stuff.


I'm not sure it's true that there's plenty of new directions that can be taken with SM. There seems to be this consensus that he's a community-owned character, and that you can't do anything with him that would ruin him as a character for other peoples' stories. Basically what this means is, he can never be defeated, or even be given a specified vulnerability. Not without considerable complaints, and people boycotting the series over it.

But how many directions does that actually leave? Not many, if we're interested in keeping to that "community-owned" edict; a character stalked by SM must either 1) die, 2) be perpetually stalked by SM forever, or 3) eventually stop being stalked by SM for no readily discernible reason (since defeating SM is not permitted). Choice 1 is cliche'; no matter how many different ways you can kill a character, dying is still dying and the end result is the same. Choice 3 makes the entire exercise pointless and alienates audience and artist alike, so is never considered.

I think Choice 2 is the problem faced by most failed SM series, whose writers decide they don't want to kill their characters - there's no other credible resolution, so the stalking just continues and continues until the series loses any suspense or dramatic tension, since it's increasingly difficult to keep believing the character is in any kind of danger no matter how many times old no-face shows up to stand at a distance and do nothing. I think most people who start a SM vlog don't actually have a larger story in mind. What they have is a gimmick - they've thought up what they believe is a neat or clever way to start a SM series, but that's the only trick they ever had up their sleeve, and once it's played there's really nothing left.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:00 am
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MC_Loki
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Checkmite wrote:

I'm not sure it's true that there's plenty of new directions that can be taken with SM. There seems to be this consensus that he's a community-owned character, and that you can't do anything with him that would ruin him as a character for other peoples' stories. Basically what this means is, he can never be defeated, or even be given a specified vulnerability. Not without considerable complaints, and people boycotting the series over it.

But how many directions does that actually leave? Not many, if we're interested in keeping to that "community-owned" edict; a character stalked by SM must either 1) die, 2) be perpetually stalked by SM forever, or 3) eventually stop being stalked by SM for no readily discernible reason (since defeating SM is not permitted). Choice 1 is cliche'; no matter how many different ways you can kill a character, dying is still dying and the end result is the same. Choice 3 makes the entire exercise pointless and alienates audience and artist alike, so is never considered.

I think Choice 2 is the problem faced by most failed SM series, whose writers decide they don't want to kill their characters - there's no other credible resolution, so the stalking just continues and continues until the series loses any suspense or dramatic tension, since it's increasingly difficult to keep believing the character is in any kind of danger no matter how many times old no-face shows up to stand at a distance and do nothing. I think most people who start a SM vlog don't actually have a larger story in mind. What they have is a gimmick - they've thought up what they believe is a neat or clever way to start a SM series, but that's the only trick they ever had up their sleeve, and once it's played there's really nothing left.


Someone who cared about the content they make and had their own story to tell wouldn't be afraid to buck trends and take their SM stuff in a new direction and/or actually defeat SM, and I feel this is why there's so many unsuccessful vlogs. Whether it's because they think imitation=views or they just get so excited about making a project and rush into things without a gameplan, they fall apart or are unwatchable after the first couple entries.

Too much of the same thing = blah.

I started watching a lot of the smaller series during the last big MH/TT/EMH drought, and while a few came with pleasant surprises, most were uninspired drek. For every one that I still keep up with, there's another that I unsubscribed from and another where I want to choke out the creators and tell them to get their boat back on course.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:15 pm
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knifebladepresents
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Can anyone suggest a UNIQUE, new series for me to watch? I love all the replies to this thread, its speaking my mind.

So, if you had to kill Slendy, how would you do it?

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:08 pm
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MC_Loki
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knifebladepresents wrote:
Can anyone suggest a UNIQUE, new series for me to watch? I love all the replies to this thread, its speaking my mind.

So, if you had to kill Slendy, how would you do it?


As far as brand-spanking-new goes, there's not a whole lot I'd recommend. Would definitely tell you to check out Keratin Garden if you haven't yet. I could take or leave the Whispered Faith connection, but she's definitely steering things a little off the beaten path.

Every Slenderman series always features some sort of distortion on film, implying it interferes with electrical equipment, which implies it is either an energy-based life form or it generates some sort of EM field (also, if you're a Surge-ist, there's the whole connection with fire). Figure out a way to trick it into walking into a trap where you flood it out.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:59 pm
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Peppercorn
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Checkmite wrote:


I'm not sure it's true that there's plenty of new directions that can be taken with SM. There seems to be this consensus that he's a community-owned character, and that you can't do anything with him that would ruin him as a character for other peoples' stories. Basically what this means is, he can never be defeated, or even be given a specified vulnerability. Not without considerable complaints, and people boycotting the series over it.

But how many directions does that actually leave? Not many, if we're interested in keeping to that "community-owned" edict; a character stalked by SM must either 1) die, 2) be perpetually stalked by SM forever, or 3) eventually stop being stalked by SM for no readily discernible reason (since defeating SM is not permitted). Choice 1 is cliche'; no matter how many different ways you can kill a character, dying is still dying and the end result is the same. Choice 3 makes the entire exercise pointless and alienates audience and artist alike, so is never considered.

I think Choice 2 is the problem faced by most failed SM series, whose writers decide they don't want to kill their characters - there's no other credible resolution, so the stalking just continues and continues until the series loses any suspense or dramatic tension, since it's increasingly difficult to keep believing the character is in any kind of danger no matter how many times old no-face shows up to stand at a distance and do nothing. I think most people who start a SM vlog don't actually have a larger story in mind. What they have is a gimmick - they've thought up what they believe is a neat or clever way to start a SM series, but that's the only trick they ever had up their sleeve, and once it's played there's really nothing left.


Mostly, the "new directions" I was referring to were re-tooling old cliches into something more original (for instance, treating things like distortion and slendersickness like they actually matter, rather than just throwing them in for the hell of it). You make a good point about the endings, although I think they can be handled well if given a good reason... and why not take a fourth option of leaving it up to interpretation? That can easily bomb, but it can also be done really, really well.

I personally think that defeating Slender Man doesn't need to be taboo, as long as a certain condition is met- that condition being that he doesn't go down easily or without a fight, so that we can still be afraid of him. If done right, this could actually benefit the Mythos, because who wants a vaguely invulnerable monster to become a boringly invulnerable one?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:52 pm
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knifebladepresents
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Quote:
I personally think that defeating Slender Man doesn't need to be taboo, as long as a certain condition is met- that condition being that he doesn't go down easily or without a fight, so that we can still be afraid of him. If done right, this could actually benefit the Mythos, because who wants a vaguely invulnerable monster to become a boringly invulnerable one?


EXACTLY.

But there's also a way you can fail at this. Have any of you guys seen the movie IT (1990)? It was good, the monster was very creepy and it took a whole two-part miniseries to defeat him. Did the monster go down with a fight? Yes. But the fight sucked...you'd have to see the film to figure out what I mean by that. But it was...bad.

You gotta make it a GOOD fight. And it has to be a long, yet thrilling climax. I always thought the best way you could defeat him is via fire. Like burning a house down. But then again, the main problem is that not everyone can afford that...any suggestions?

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:01 pm
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TheOperator
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Killing him with fire seems too easy... if anything I want to see him set on fire but continuing to go after the protagonists, acting as if the fire doesn't affect him at all.

It'd make sense to "banish" him somehow, like destroying all the assumed conditions for him being able to stalk anyone again. Also leaves a sense of doubt and worry about whether that'll really keep him from ever returning.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:10 am
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xemnasvii
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knifebladepresents wrote:
Can anyone suggest a UNIQUE, new series for me to watch? I love all the replies to this thread, its speaking my mind.

So, if you had to kill Slendy, how would you do it?


Um.. Well the series in my signature is unique in the sense that it isn't a slenderman series and that it doesn't follow many cliches. At least, not in the newer things and things planned.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:51 pm
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Checkmite
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Peppercorn wrote:


I personally think that defeating Slender Man doesn't need to be taboo, as long as a certain condition is met- that condition being that he doesn't go down easily or without a fight, so that we can still be afraid of him. If done right, this could actually benefit the Mythos, because who wants a vaguely invulnerable monster to become a boringly invulnerable one?


Oh absolutely; don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating for that whole community-owned edict; I'm just recognizing that it's there, and a lot of series writers appear to be following it, which leaves for very little to do with Slendy after he starts stalking a protagonist. That's why so many series have to create "proxies", human Slender-helpers that the protagonist can fight and defeat; because conflict is the stuff of a good story, but only when there's some kind of resolution.

I too would love to see Slendy defeated. I don't think it would ruin my enjoyment of other series where SM may not have the same vulnerability (or even the same nature).

But you are right, it would be perilously easy to screw up. I would probably not be too happy to see Slender Man defeated by the Power of FRIENDSHIP AND LOVE! for example. Of course, maybe somebody somewhere would.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:09 pm
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knifebladepresents
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Quote:
But you are right, it would be perilously easy to screw up. I would probably not be too happy to see Slender Man defeated by the Power of FRIENDSHIP AND LOVE! for example. Of course, maybe somebody somewhere would.


You scared me there. For a second I thought you were talking about My Little Pony.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:12 pm
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