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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
[VIDEO] Entry #77
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chimichanga
Greenhorn

Joined: 18 Oct 2013
Posts: 4
Marble Hornets wrote:
TheJoker wrote:
Marble Hornets wrote:
SilentMedusa wrote:
I thought of an upsetting scenario: Alex goes to Tim's house to kill Jay. The Operator shows up, but protects Jay, because it wants Jay as a puppet, and has no use for Alex any more.


if alex wanted to kill jay he could have shot him during entry 64 easily (although given alex's aim probably not)

...In entry 64? Are you suggesting that Alex could have shot him through the phone?

We have no way of knowing exactly how far away Alex was from them when he phoned them or whether he really was in a position to kill them at all at the time, so that's not a strong enough argument.

A better one would be the fact that Alex either isn't too interested in hunting them down or is awful at it, based on how few times he's actually caught up with them so far. Assuming he's actively hunting them and doesn't have something else that he's prioritizing, he'd probably never find Jay even with his location being advertised all over YT.
]

alex saw them there, they didn't see him. he could have moved closer without them hearing if he truly was that far away. using the element of surprise, yes he could have easily killed them both in a heartbeat, esp with tim down on the floor and jay dragging him


But was Alex actually there though? I thought maybe he was just telling them to leave Rosswood Park in general. He wouldn't have had to actually be following them to know that they were there either, since Jay had tweeted beforehand when they would be there because he's just a genius like that.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:05 am
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SilentMedusa
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Joined: 04 Jul 2013
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 		This entry -particularly the end- has created a problem. From fairly early on, we -the audience- have been trained to only believe what the camera shows us. But now that Tim's running the show (pun fully intended; I regret nothing Very Happy) we can't even trust that. Why? Because it's now proven fact that Tim will lie if he thinks he's justified, and he can do at least basic editing. If he would lie to Jay, why wouldn't he lie to us?

With those thoughts in mind, I re-watched this entry, and noticed something that disturbs me. In the space between Tim taking Jay to the ground, and where we see Tim tying Jay's hands while Jay yells at him to "GET OFF!" there's a span where there's no picture -and no sound either. It's just black. Almost like someone did a sloppy job of cutting something out Shocked . Now Jay doesn't seem to be acting like anything more than we're aware of happened, but I have to ask: what might Tim have done (or said) to Jay that he chose not to show us?

You know, I didn't think I was a conspiracy theorist, and then I joined Unfiction Twisted Evil .

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:31 am
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Marble Hornets
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Joined: 29 Apr 2013
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chimichanga wrote:
Marble Hornets wrote:
TheJoker wrote:
Marble Hornets wrote:
SilentMedusa wrote:
I thought of an upsetting scenario: Alex goes to Tim's house to kill Jay. The Operator shows up, but protects Jay, because it wants Jay as a puppet, and has no use for Alex any more.


if alex wanted to kill jay he could have shot him during entry 64 easily (although given alex's aim probably not)

...In entry 64? Are you suggesting that Alex could have shot him through the phone?

We have no way of knowing exactly how far away Alex was from them when he phoned them or whether he really was in a position to kill them at all at the time, so that's not a strong enough argument.

A better one would be the fact that Alex either isn't too interested in hunting them down or is awful at it, based on how few times he's actually caught up with them so far. Assuming he's actively hunting them and doesn't have something else that he's prioritizing, he'd probably never find Jay even with his location being advertised all over YT.
]

alex saw them there, they didn't see him. he could have moved closer without them hearing if he truly was that far away. using the element of surprise, yes he could have easily killed them both in a heartbeat, esp with tim down on the floor and jay dragging him


But was Alex actually there though? I thought maybe he was just telling them to leave Rosswood Park in general. He wouldn't have had to actually be following them to know that they were there either, since Jay had tweeted beforehand when they would be there because he's just a genius like that.


timing of the call was too specific for him not to be right there

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:20 am
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Beidah
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Joined: 02 Aug 2011
Posts: 702
Location: Floating in the Void
Marble Hornets wrote:
chimichanga wrote:
Marble Hornets wrote:
TheJoker wrote:
Marble Hornets wrote:
SilentMedusa wrote:
I thought of an upsetting scenario: Alex goes to Tim's house to kill Jay. The Operator shows up, but protects Jay, because it wants Jay as a puppet, and has no use for Alex any more.


if alex wanted to kill jay he could have shot him during entry 64 easily (although given alex's aim probably not)

...In entry 64? Are you suggesting that Alex could have shot him through the phone?

We have no way of knowing exactly how far away Alex was from them when he phoned them or whether he really was in a position to kill them at all at the time, so that's not a strong enough argument.

A better one would be the fact that Alex either isn't too interested in hunting them down or is awful at it, based on how few times he's actually caught up with them so far. Assuming he's actively hunting them and doesn't have something else that he's prioritizing, he'd probably never find Jay even with his location being advertised all over YT.
]

alex saw them there, they didn't see him. he could have moved closer without them hearing if he truly was that far away. using the element of surprise, yes he could have easily killed them both in a heartbeat, esp with tim down on the floor and jay dragging him


But was Alex actually there though? I thought maybe he was just telling them to leave Rosswood Park in general. He wouldn't have had to actually be following them to know that they were there either, since Jay had tweeted beforehand when they would be there because he's just a genius like that.


timing of the call was too specific for him not to be right there


My assumption was that the Operator alerted him to the fact that there were people in the tunnel, using voodoo, and Alex made the correct assumption that it was Jay. He was probably at the grocery store, honestly.
_________________
How can I help but use your eyes as a means for self-asphyxiation?

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:45 am
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Amethyst.64
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Joined: 27 Aug 2013
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SilentMedusa wrote:
With those thoughts in mind, I re-watched this entry, and noticed something that disturbs me. In the space between Tim taking Jay to the ground, and where we see Tim tying Jay's hands while Jay yells at him to "GET OFF!" there's a span where there's no picture -and no sound either. It's just black. Almost like someone did a sloppy job of cutting something out Shocked . Now Jay doesn't seem to be acting like anything more than we're aware of happened, but I have to ask: what might Tim have done (or said) to Jay that he chose not to show us?


That is unsettling, I put it down to the camera being dropped, but the timing is a little off. Also I find it interesting that the camera moves in that few moments, I hope this is something, not nothing.

OOG
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
The cut could have just been used because they decided the fight scene wasn't great, or it was tough for Tim to tie Troy's legs together, on camera, while he was resisting.
I hope this isn't the case though


PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:27 am
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Jordan
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Joined: 19 Oct 2011
Posts: 845

 		Did anyone else feel a bit...disconnected from this entry? Maybe it's just me and I'm tired, but Jay's my favourite character and having him tied up and out of his mind should have been very emotionally affected, but I just felt...well disconnected from this entry somehow.

Very intrested to see where it will go and my love of Marble Hornets is still very much alive, but...I just didn't connect to this entry for some reason.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:49 am
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Camero
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 		Anyone else notice the distortion, and thus conclude that TO mind raped Jay the second Tim left?

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:50 am
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Amethyst.64
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Joined: 27 Aug 2013
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 		@Jordan, I know what you mean, but I think that was my conscience knowing it was the correct thing to do from Tim's point of view, so I suppressed my emotions.

@camero, I think generally people assume Jay causes the distortion (a la Alex) so I don't TO turned up right after

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:20 am
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Jordan
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Joined: 19 Oct 2011
Posts: 845
Camero wrote:
Anyone else notice the distortion, and thus conclude that TO mind raped Jay the second Tim left?


Hey mate, maybe back off on the 'r' word?

And no, I didn't think about that.

God.

Jay is going to be a complete blank slate.

COMPLETLY GONE.

MY FAVOURITE CHARACTER.

Shackled.

Not even knowing what that cold feeling agasint his wrists IS.

Or anything.

Not even the 'A' to 'Z'.

SWEET FUCK.

NOT MY JAY.

WHY DID YOU MAKE ME THINK THAT? WHHHHHHHHHHHHHHY?

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:48 am
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Jordan
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 		[quote="Amethyst.64"]@Jordan, I know what you mean, but I think that was my conscience knowing it was the correct thing to do from Tim's point of view, so I suppressed my emotions.

Hmmm... no, it wasn't that for me. Just something about this entry just didn't click - and it should have. I did laugh at Jay's crazy man logic, though: "I'm going to show Tim my knife, but it's going to be a small one, so it's NOT too threatening, just enough to let him know I mean bussiness."

Jay's my favourite character in the series, him crazy and out of his mind and shackled and Tim having to lock him up should have got to me, it just didn't (in retrospect, it does, but not when I was watching the entry)

I don't trust Tim. I just can't shake the feeling he and Hoody are playing a long game with him. I'm guessing we'll see Jay back behind the camera, but Hoody and Tim will be rationing out pills to him in exchange for his co-operation.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:58 am
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420Goku
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Joined: 19 Sep 2013
Posts: 109
Jordan wrote:
I did laugh at Jay's crazy man logic, though: "I'm going to show Tim my knife, but it's going to be a small one, so it's NOT too threatening, just enough to let him know I mean bussiness."


I doubt that's what Jay was thinkin. Homeboy brought zip ties after all... I think that's supposed to show to us that Jay didn't just wanna talk.

I think it's pretty clear Tim ain't working wit hoody anymore. We've seen the evidence of that all throughout season 3, no reason to doubt it. I also think Tim lying about entry 76 is more like the one exception than anything else.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:22 am
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Amethyst.64
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Joined: 27 Aug 2013
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Location: UK

 		[quote="Jordan"]
Amethyst.64 wrote:
@Jordan, I know what you mean, but I think that was my conscience knowing it was the correct thing to do from Tim's point of view, so I suppressed my emotions.

Hmmm... no, it wasn't that for me. Just something about this entry just didn't click - and it should have.


Fair enough, well I think there was a little of that for me, but I still know what you mean, re-watching this it kinda feels like we don't know the characters like we have in the past.
My reaction is much more "oh... shit" than in other entries (even as recently as 75/76)

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:34 am
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CraicIsMighty
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Joined: 03 Aug 2011
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Sha Noran wrote:
CraicIsMighty wrote:
How has Jay betrayed Tim? It looked like the other way around to me. Tim's been keeping this secret from Jay and yet still acting like Jay is totally irrational not to trust him. Even though Tim's been dangling Jessica like a carrot in front of Jay this whole time despite apparently believing that Jessica "needs to be dead to them".


Well, he jumped him in 75 and brought a knife to hug it out with Tim in 77. It seems everyone and even Jay himself are forgetting Tim's heroic rescue in 72. I say who cares about Tim holding back 76? As Tim and Jay both even acknowledge, the footage isn't conclusive. Holding back the footage probably WAS the best move, as evidenced by Jay freaking out just as expected.


That's like a little kid saying he was justified in not telling his parents he was doing poorly in school because his parents would "freak out". Yeah, they'd probably be upset but if he told his parents that his grades were slipping right away they could get together with teachers right away to figure something out. But if the kid lies about his grades and keeps it secret until his parents find out he's failing at teacher conferences, not only do his parents lose faith and trust in him but the situation will just be that much harder to fix. So yeah, that's just a piss poor excuse that doesn't even deserve serious consideration. Jay got upset BECAUSE Tim kept it a secret.

If Tim had told Jay about the tape as soon as he found out, Jay probably would have been upset for a little while yes, but as long as Tim stuck to his story and swore he didn't remember it Jay probably would've believed him. But because Tim kept it a secret, Jay found out about it at the worst possible moment and had no idea whether or not he could trust Tim any longer. If Tim was truly innocent, why would he hide this tape? His story is just full of holes. If he really did just find it in his pocket, why didn't he tell Jay about it as soon as he found it? And how did he even watch it? Tim said he didn't have a camera that could play those kind of tapes. That means he must've snuck Jay's camera in order to watch it, assuming he didn't already know what was on it. Why would he do that if he was innocent and had no idea what was on it? He had no reason to watch the tape in secret if he was truly innocent. In conclusion, Tim is a liar and Jay would be a gullible fool to trust a word he says.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:48 am
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geekgirlinthefedora
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CraicIsMighty wrote:
Sha Noran wrote:
CraicIsMighty wrote:
How has Jay betrayed Tim? It looked like the other way around to me. Tim's been keeping this secret from Jay and yet still acting like Jay is totally irrational not to trust him. Even though Tim's been dangling Jessica like a carrot in front of Jay this whole time despite apparently believing that Jessica "needs to be dead to them".


Well, he jumped him in 75 and brought a knife to hug it out with Tim in 77. It seems everyone and even Jay himself are forgetting Tim's heroic rescue in 72. I say who cares about Tim holding back 76? As Tim and Jay both even acknowledge, the footage isn't conclusive. Holding back the footage probably WAS the best move, as evidenced by Jay freaking out just as expected.


That's like a little kid saying he was justified in not telling his parents he was doing poorly in school because his parents would "freak out". Yeah, they'd probably be upset but if he told his parents that his grades were slipping right away they could get together with teachers right away to figure something out. But if the kid lies about his grades and keeps it secret until his parents find out he's failing at teacher conferences, not only do his parents lose faith and trust in him but the situation will just be that much harder to fix. So yeah, that's just a piss poor excuse that doesn't even deserve serious consideration. Jay got upset BECAUSE Tim kept it a secret.

If Tim had told Jay about the tape as soon as he found out, Jay probably would have been upset for a little while yes, but as long as Tim stuck to his story and swore he didn't remember it Jay probably would've believed him. But because Tim kept it a secret, Jay found out about it at the worst possible moment and had no idea whether or not he could trust Tim any longer. If Tim was truly innocent, why would he hide this tape? His story is just full of holes. If he really did just find it in his pocket, why didn't he tell Jay about it as soon as he found it? And how did he even watch it? Tim said he didn't have a camera that could play those kind of tapes. That means he must've snuck Jay's camera in order to watch it, assuming he didn't already know what was on it. Why would he do that if he was innocent and had no idea what was on it? He had no reason to watch the tape in secret if he was truly innocent. In conclusion, Tim is a liar and Jay would be a gullible fool to trust a word he says.


The only problem with your analogy is that usually the parents aren't slowly having their sanity sucked out through their navels. You can't count on what someone who's coming unhinged will do. A normal, sane person will probably be a little upset but then will talk it out and all's well. A not so normal, not so sane person is just as likely to talk it out with a knife. Not the best possible resolution.

I do kinda wonder if Tim was really trying to protect Jay from the truth or protect himself from the fallout of Jay finding out the truth though. He had to know what Jay's reaction was going to be like or he would have not just unlocked the door and hid the way he did. So was he trying to keep himself from getting a knife to the back or was he trying to keep Jay as sane as possible?

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:02 am
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CraicIsMighty
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Joined: 03 Aug 2011
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geekgirlinthefedora wrote:
CraicIsMighty wrote:
Sha Noran wrote:
CraicIsMighty wrote:
How has Jay betrayed Tim? It looked like the other way around to me. Tim's been keeping this secret from Jay and yet still acting like Jay is totally irrational not to trust him. Even though Tim's been dangling Jessica like a carrot in front of Jay this whole time despite apparently believing that Jessica "needs to be dead to them".


Well, he jumped him in 75 and brought a knife to hug it out with Tim in 77. It seems everyone and even Jay himself are forgetting Tim's heroic rescue in 72. I say who cares about Tim holding back 76? As Tim and Jay both even acknowledge, the footage isn't conclusive. Holding back the footage probably WAS the best move, as evidenced by Jay freaking out just as expected.


That's like a little kid saying he was justified in not telling his parents he was doing poorly in school because his parents would "freak out". Yeah, they'd probably be upset but if he told his parents that his grades were slipping right away they could get together with teachers right away to figure something out. But if the kid lies about his grades and keeps it secret until his parents find out he's failing at teacher conferences, not only do his parents lose faith and trust in him but the situation will just be that much harder to fix. So yeah, that's just a piss poor excuse that doesn't even deserve serious consideration. Jay got upset BECAUSE Tim kept it a secret.

If Tim had told Jay about the tape as soon as he found out, Jay probably would have been upset for a little while yes, but as long as Tim stuck to his story and swore he didn't remember it Jay probably would've believed him. But because Tim kept it a secret, Jay found out about it at the worst possible moment and had no idea whether or not he could trust Tim any longer. If Tim was truly innocent, why would he hide this tape? His story is just full of holes. If he really did just find it in his pocket, why didn't he tell Jay about it as soon as he found it? And how did he even watch it? Tim said he didn't have a camera that could play those kind of tapes. That means he must've snuck Jay's camera in order to watch it, assuming he didn't already know what was on it. Why would he do that if he was innocent and had no idea what was on it? He had no reason to watch the tape in secret if he was truly innocent. In conclusion, Tim is a liar and Jay would be a gullible fool to trust a word he says.


The only problem with your analogy is that usually the parents aren't slowly having their sanity sucked out through their navels. You can't count on what someone who's coming unhinged will do. A normal, sane person will probably be a little upset but then will talk it out and all's well. A not so normal, not so sane person is just as likely to talk it out with a knife. Not the best possible resolution.

I do kinda wonder if Tim was really trying to protect Jay from the truth or protect himself from the fallout of Jay finding out the truth though. He had to know what Jay's reaction was going to be like or he would have not just unlocked the door and hid the way he did. So was he trying to keep himself from getting a knife to the back or was he trying to keep Jay as sane as possible?


But if Tim is telling the truth about getting it back at the beginning of the season, Jay was still in a decent mental state back then. If Tim had told him then, he probably would have been met with a more favorable outcome. But since he waited and kept it secret, Jay found out at the worst possible time, when his mental state was strained and deteriorating. And keeping secrets from such a person just seems like a really unwise move. And that still doesn't answer the question of why Tim even watched the tape in secret in the first place.

The whole situation just mirrors the shit Alex pulled in season 2, manipulating Jay and leading him along while keeping him in the dark. Alex also tried to keep a tape that made him look bad secret from him, but even after Jay saw entry 51 he still trusted Alex enough to give him the benefit of the doubt to follow him into Rosswood-and almost got himself and jessica killed. So when Tim pulled the same shit with keeping a suspicious tape secret, it's only natural imo that Jay would react more aggressively. For all Jay knows, Tim had just as nefarious things planned for him as Alex did.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:15 am
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