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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
[VIDEO] Entry #80
Moderators: Giskard, JKatkina, Zarggg
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rkmobius
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Joined: 07 Dec 2013
Posts: 32

 		Still seems hard to tell if Hoody's plan worked in this Entry, or Alex took control of things and Hoody was just a bit late to the party. Seems unlikely, given how omniscient he has seemed to this point.

Another thing, OOG,

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
It'd make sense to drop Troy out of production by sending him to Slendyverse/death, even briefly, for the Entry when Hoody gets unmasked, if he's Future Jay. I'm sure they could make it work to have Both Jays onscreen at the same time, but I would imagine that would be very complicated to produce. And even if Troy was never onscreen twice in the actual shot of them, they wouldn't be able to do one scene (no cuts) that both establishes that Jay is off camera and then unmasks Hoody to reveal Jay (without fancy Multiplicity camerawork).

But if it's Brian, and I suspect it is, there'll have to be a long bit of explanation of just how he did all he did, and why, and when. Future Jay's an easier plot explanation -- if you forget the impossibility of traveling back in time, Alex having to know about Both Jays, and a few other things pointed out already.


Also, do any of these people have families? Or is each character conveniently an independently wealthy loner orphan only child with no friends, that the world would not notice if they dropped out of existence (sometimes literally) for years at a time? It was almost a weird thing to have Tim work for a few months.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:52 pm
Last edited by rkmobius on Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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censura_umbra
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Joined: 13 Aug 2012
Posts: 494

 		POSSIBLY IMPORTANT REALIZATION ABOUT TIM

I re watched the entry and was paying attention to when Tim left Benedict Hall and I noticed something. When he turns back, to look behind him, it isn't the way someone checks behind themselves while running from a threat. It is how someone looks behind themselves to make sure they actually shut the door. Or remembered to turn the light off.

He walks down, looks back, takes a few steps then begins jogging. It gave the impression of someone laying a trap. As if he left the door open on purpose for Jay.

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Granted this can all be explained OOG by bad acting


And remember, he yelled at Hoody "You set this up!" Almost like "This was your idea!" and at the end of the video "This wasn't supposed to happen."

What if Hoody convinced Tim to work with him again? it is clear that Tim (not mask)and Hood have been keeping secrets from Jay.

What if Hoody told Tim the plan and Tim was helping and it all went wrong. (whether Hoody purposely let it go wrong idk)

SERIOUSLY MAKES ME WONDER

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:55 pm
Last edited by censura_umbra on Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SignerJ
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Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 514
Location: Earth

 		(I realize that something like this has been said a couple of times, but I thought that I should still add in my own two cents.)

Wall of text incoming.

I'm going to assume that Quadrant is a response to this video, rather than Entry #79.
I'm also going to assume that Hoody is TTA, or that Hoody at least published Quadrant.

It has already been established that Hoody/TTA is a very smart and scheming person, to the extent where he has manipulated Jay, Tim, and maybe even Alex. It has also already been established that he stalked Jay for quite a while. Thus, I don't think that it is too much of a stretch for him to be able to predict how Jay would react to certain stimuli.

Now, if we look back into the past few videos, we see a lot of events driven by Hoody/TTA.

-He continues his portrayal of Alex as the main villain and threat, something that Tim is only too willing to accept. In "entry 73" Hoody makes eliminating Alex an achievable goal. When Tim and Jay arrive to eliminate Alex (Entry #75), they learn that Alex has been moved to another location and that Alex is probably incapacitated somehow, giving them hope and keeping them focused on eliminating Alex. Again, Tim seems especially dedicated towards this goal.

-Meanwhile, Hoody/TTA keeps pressing the claim that Tim is a liar and shouldn't be trusted (refer to Season 3). He keeps addressing this time and again at Jay ("entry 73", Conversion), until Jay starts believing Hoody/TTA to some extent (Entry #74). By Entry #75, Jay is so convinced that Tim is a liar that Jay won't even listen to Tim's side of the story. Following File, This culminates in Entry #77, when Jay goes to attack Tim and fails, and then is left behind without a camera, which destroys Jay's trust in Tim for good. When Hoody releases Jay in Entry #78, Jay finally sees Hoody as on his side, while he views Tim more as an enemy and a danger. (For example, Jay offers to help Hoody in Entry #79, while he just follows Tim around "sneakily" in the same entry.)

-AbyssalRook hypothesized that the reason Hoody hides his identity is to keep himself distanced and inhuman, and to keep his motives hidden. This lack of humanity probably helps Tim and Jay write off Hoody as irrelevant or not dangerous, furthering his attempts at making Alex the main focus of the pair. This lasts until Hoody directly helps Jay, at which point Jay easily forgets about Hoody's past dangerous acts and embraces him as someone benign (refer to Point 2), maybe(?).

All of this information culminates into the situation at the college. Hoody/TTA tells Jay and Tim that Alex can be found tied-up in Benedict Hall. By this point in time, Jay completely distrusts Tim, ensuring that whenever Jay acts, he will act alone. Moreover, Jay would probably completely ignore Tim's actions, or even go so far as to contradict them.
Furthermore, Tim's and Jay's motives for finding Alex are different. Tim wants to find Alex to hurt him, while Jay just wants to "end it." (I doubt this means hurting Alex, since Jay just is not that kind of person.)

So, when Tim leaves from Benedict Hall in a rush, Jay's first response is to enter the building. He goes in alone, vulnerable, and does not even consider why Tim would be running away. Jay is completely unprepared for a loose Alex with a gun. Cue events of Entry #80.

Here comes the winning question: How did Alex escape, if he was supposedly tied up? And how did Alex get his gun? There is only one simple situation that answers both questions: Hoody/TTA let Alex go. Maybe not while Hoody/TTA was still in the room, or even nearby, but he provided Alex with an opportunity to escape, and even possibly may have told Alex that Tim and Jay were coming. This means that Hoody/TTA set the whole situation up.

This is where Quadrant comes in. The two messages contained were "Who am I -- Am I the third" and "I can not help." Recalling that Quadrant is a response to the events of Entry #80, the two messages can be interpreted in the following way:
"Who am I -- Am I the third?" may be connected to Conversion. There, TTA says, "Who are the liars? Are you one of them? (referring to Jay) Are you both of them? (referring to Tim or Tim and Jay)" I believe that "Am I the third?" may be an addition to this train of thought. It is here that Hoody/TTA finally reveals that he has been manipulating events from the beginning by calling himself a "liar."
"I can not help" has somewhat of a similar bent. This message is telling Tim that events have progressed beyond the point of return, and that Hoody's plans/goals are finally coming to fruition (whatever they may be). He can not help and he will not help.

TL;DR: Hoody/TTA manipulated Tim, Jay, and Alex to set up the whole situation to achieve his goals, and it went well (for Hoody/TTA).


Sorry if this post is a bit confusing -- I lost my train of thought halfway through. (Right at the point where I mentioned AbyssalRook.)

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:59 pm
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AbyssalRook
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SignerJ wrote:

TL;DR: Hoody/TTA manipulated Tim, Jay, and Alex to set up the whole situation to achieve his goals, and it went well (for Hoody/TTA).


I don't know if you saw my earlier-earlier post about my version of the events at the college around the time Tim arrived, but I came to the same conclusion about Hoodie releasing Alex. I also went further and said it was done with the knife that Jay found, in that very room, and that Alex was also left with a key and a gun.

There are only two things I'd really correct about (or add to) this at the moment. One: Tim never saw the note. He was drawn to the manhole from further back in the room, and was interrupted before he had a chance to look at anything else. Therefor, he must have had some other prompt to go into Benedict Hall and lock it behind himself while Jay was still exploring and found the note.

Two: The note did not suggest that Alex would be found tied up, only that he would be found. The pictures of him being tied up seemed more reminiscent of the room that Jay was in at that moment, and I think the knife was left as a clue that Alex would actually be free, rather than restrained. Naturally, there was no hint that he would have a gun.

Other than that, for the most part, I agree with what you're getting at.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:30 pm
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SilentMedusa
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Joined: 04 Jul 2013
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censura_umbra wrote:
POSSIBLY IMPORTANT REALIZATION ABOUT TIM

I re watched the entry and was paying attention to when Tim left Benedict Hall and I noticed something. When he turns back, to look behind him, it isn't the way someone checks behind themselves while running from a threat. It is how someone looks behind themselves to make sure they actually shut the door. Or remembered to turn the light off.

He walks down, looks back, takes a few steps then begins jogging. It gave the impression of someone laying a trap. As if he left the door open on purpose for Jay.

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Granted this can all be explained OOG by bad acting


And remember, he yelled at Hoody "You set this up!" Almost like "This was your idea!" and at the end of the video "This wasn't supposed to happen."

What if Hoody convinced Tim to work with him again? it is clear that Tim (not mask)and Hood have been keeping secrets from Jay.

What if Hoody told Tim the plan and Tim was helping and it all went wrong. (whether Hoody purposely let it go wrong idk)

SERIOUSLY MAKES ME WONDER


Funny, I didn't get that impression at all. Here's what I think happened: at some point Tim saw Alex roaming the place with a gun, but Alex didn't see Tim. Tim managed to sneak out without being caught. He backed down the stairs and onto the foot path to make sure he wasn't about to be ambushed. He turned and ran off when he saw that he wasn't being pursued.

The past few entries show that Hoody did indeed set this up; he was the one who orchestrated all of them being at that place at that time. Although I don't believe he was trying to get Jay killed; this was a plot that backfired.

As for Tim's comment of "this wasn't supposed to happen" he explains in the text. He left Jay tied up on his floor to keep him out of harm's way. If he'd stayed there, this wouldn't have happened. But he got loose, and jumped head first into danger. (Really; he saw Tim running away, and didn't even consider that he was running for a reason) Just like Tim feared he would. Honestly, I don't know why people are looking for a hidden meaning in something that straightforward...

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:44 pm
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ReeseSparrow
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Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Posts: 172
Location: The Dark Margin
Zarggg wrote:
Again, as others have said, if backwards time travel were supposed to be a factor in this series, it would have been presented to us long before now. Yes, that might be meta-gaming the genre, but it's still very valid as far as good storytelling does. Just because The Operator has the ability to make a person or small group of people "lose" time, he does not necessarily have the ability to manipulate where in time someone can "come out". Those are two distinct concepts.

As to the insistence that TTA/Hoody knows Jay's passwords because he is really Jay from the future, keep in mind that TTA has posted many cryptographic puzzles, both in his videos and on Jay's Twitter, some of which we still have not solved. It's not a stretch to also assume that someone so versed in mathematics and cryptography would be able to gain access to Jay's accounts, either through social engineering, intuiting what kinds of passwords Jay would use, or brute force cracking.

AbyssalRook wrote:
The more I look at this future Jay thing, the more points that come up that it could fit into.

That's not the way we should be going about it. Theories should be changed to fit situations, rather than situations being picked to support a theory. The events in the series are the constant factors, not the theories we come up with.


QFT

Seriously, I love you for speaking sense Zarggg.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:13 pm
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The Happy Madman
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 		Did anyone else notice the distortion after Alex shoots Jay? I thought it could've been Alex talking.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:16 pm
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Master of Octopi
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Joined: 05 Sep 2013
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 		Wanted to catch up on the thread before posting anything, and I have, so here goes:

SilentMedusa wrote:
Something that struck me about Alex: he waited. Much has been made of the fact that this time he didn't say anything to Jay at all; just aimed and fired. But he waited. He gave Jay enough time to turn around, see him, and even call out to him before firing. Why would Alex do that when he just as easily could've shot Jay in the back?

Here's my theory on Tim's actions this entry: Tim saw Alex, but Alex didn't see him. That's why he was backing away from the door before he turned and ran. I believe he went straight to his car and went home, because Alex was an active threat again, and Jay would've been a sitting duck. Only instead of a pissed-off insane Jay, Tim found a knife, cut zip ties, and Hoody's little 'love note'. Realizing there was only one place Jay would've gone, Tim races back to the college. He probably retraces his steps. By the time he finds that room it's been long enough for the sun to have gone down. I'm sure he saw the the bloody hand print and the abandoned camera and just knew. But he watched the footage anyway in hopes he was wrong. He was disappointed. He starts frantically searching for Jay (seriously; he sounds as scared and desperate here as he did in #72) even though he must've known how hopeless it was, and encountered Hoody. We all saw what happened from there.


If Tim did indeed return to his house before coming back to find Jay, maybe Hoody left the "Last Chance" note on the mirror for Tim, not Jay. As in, "Jay is literally going to die if you do not get back here, dude."

My opinion on the whole "Hoody is Jay from the Future!" theory: I don't like it. It's sloppy, has no precedent, feels entirely out of place, would require far too much exposition, and just genuinely doesn't make sense. To shoehorn time travel into something like this is just... I don't want to say "stupid," but I'm having trouble finding a more appropriate adjective. For those who have proposed the Operator's ability to distort time as a vehicle for time travel: changing a subject's perception of time is not time travel. Else, every time you sleep without dreaming, you're time travelling! After all, you wake up in the future. Clocks lose approximately 100 nanoseconds every 70 years if elevated one foot above another clock. This is not time travel, it is relativity; a different perspective of time is not equivalent to traveling through it. This is all the Operator has been depicted doing; teleportation and altering perception of time. Not bashing anyone here, just proposing a counter argument. If those who prescribe to the theory are still inclined to do so, provide evidence that it is possible within the context of the series, and I will concede the point. Until then, I'm forced to treat it as a case of groupthink.

On Jay's fate:
Who's to say that Jay is still wherever it is the Operator sends his/her/its victims? Tim was thrown in there in Entry #65, and managed to claw his way out. In fact, he was spat back out close to his car. Also recall that he was dragged through that place for a portion of his nightmarish stay there. (I'm going to use technological terms for illustrative purposes in the following idea to make the concept easier to grasp).
Perhaps the Operator nabbed Jay and... uploaded him, in a sense, to his cloud server (the OperatorVerse). Then he downloaded him to another location where he could receive medical attention, like near a hospital or a back alley doctor who won't question him about bullet wounds? We could still go a while without seeing Jay, because the Operator stripped him of his precious camera, but Jay could still be alive.
(Seems weird and unceremonious to compare the Operator to a DropBox user, but it's the closest analogy I could come up with).

Tim's behavior seems peculiar when he recovers Jay's camera. We get Alex picking it up and turning it off (nice of him to save the battery life) followed by a black screen. Then, Tim apparently has the camera; he starts recording, then stands up and starts saying, "No, no, no Jay, JAY!" Why in the world did he start recording right then? It doesn't make any sense to me. If he indeed sat down and watched the footage, it means that he flipped the camera from playback to record, stood up and then started his search. He never seemed to be as obsessed about recording everything as Jay has been. Taking that into account, it came off to me as... a show. That Tim deliberately waited to act as the concerned friend for us, to act as though Hoody was to blame. Maybe Tim set the thing up and left the note for Jay-- it's possible that that's what he was doing when Jay followed him. I like Tim, and I hope it's not true, but it's got me wondering.

Also, to those who wondered why Alex bothered with the camera if he didn't want to destroy evidence: who's to say that he didn't? He could have edited parts of the tape right there on the camera; take a spot you don't like in the footage, queue the tape to that point, cover the lens with your hand and press "REC." Rinse and repeat. Remember, Tim edited this together, so he could very well have cut long periods of black screen with no audio.

Finally, when Hoody peeked around the corner in that balaclava, did anyone else think of this? http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-43WddBgZ5oI/ULzvwwaV9cI/AAAAAAAAAqE/zKSgAx3rfNk/s1600/MORT-bazooka_recent.recent_news.jpg
[/i]

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:47 am
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The Happy Madman
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 		Maybe Tim noticed Jay's bloody handprint after he picked up the camera. Until then, he might have just thought that Jay was hiding or knocked out somewhere, but that handprint suggested that he was wounded as well. That should be a good enough reason to panic.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:51 am
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The7kproductions
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 		[note: the following is meant to be read in a dumb redneck semi-gangster accent] allu peeople who thank hudy is frum teh futurez is all stupid IMO

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:02 am
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Armentitron
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 		What I can't understand is if in Entry #64 when Tim and Jay were in the tunnel Alex called them and told them to get out, why did he shoot Jay to encounter TO now?

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:30 am
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device
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 		When will Jay ever learn to put down the camera when someone is trying to shoot him?

In Tim's own words..."I've seen it myself. Alex points a gun at you and your first instinct is to film it, you psychopath!"

No self-preservations skills for our Jay.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:50 am
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kiar
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 		For those that wanted Tim to take over the account again
http://img.pandawhale.com/86822-not-like-this-gif-perfect-loop-pD6b.gif

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:53 am
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SilentMedusa
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 		And on that note: well, people wanted to see Alex in the present-day...

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:15 am
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Ascalondion
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Master of Octopi wrote:

Tim's behavior seems peculiar when he recovers Jay's camera. We get Alex picking it up and turning it off (nice of him to save the battery life) followed by a black screen. Then, Tim apparently has the camera; he starts recording, then stands up and starts saying, "No, no, no Jay, JAY!" Why in the world did he start recording right then? It doesn't make any sense to me. If he indeed sat down and watched the footage, it means that he flipped the camera from playback to record, stood up and then started his search. He never seemed to be as obsessed about recording everything as Jay has been. Taking that into account, it came off to me as... a show. That Tim deliberately waited to act as the concerned friend for us, to act as though Hoody was to blame. Maybe Tim set the thing up and left the note for Jay-- it's possible that that's what he was doing when Jay followed him. I like Tim, and I hope it's not true, but it's got me wondering.


Yeah, I've wondered about the picking up of the camera from ground by Tim too and like your thought. As I've already stated, I was unhappy with how much easy people were to agree on "Oh hey, Hoody totally set him up." Though SignerJ has some very valid points.

So for this looks like either Hoody or Tim must have been in a secret alliance with Alex. But who, and why? Hoody seems both very plausible and totally unlikely. Very plausible, because he is linked in a yet unknown way to the operator, has erratic behaviour and as well all the things from SignerJ's post. On the other Hand, Hoody seemed to be main antagonist of Alex. Alex, for the most part, looked like he was "on term" with TO, yet Hoody was a danger, threat and opposing force to him still. (He tried to kill him more than once!)

On the other Hand, why would Tim align himself with Alex? Maybe his masky persona could be a partner of Alex of the above mentioned reasons Hoody could also be. But then again, especially when under influence of his anti-operator pills seemed to be the more sane and sensible character to stop Alex.
However, as I am typing this, what comes to my mind is my earlier observation, that we know only of two characters that had contact to the TO before the filming of Marble Hornets: Tim and Alex. Don't know if it's relevant, but that's my thought process so far.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:03 am
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