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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
[VIDEO] Entry #80
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GnomonRose
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Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Posts: 164
Location: Taiwan

Tim's appearance in Benedict Hall

I haven't noticed anyone mentioning this before, but I think we can assume that Jay was more or less glued to the window vantage point pretty steadily until he saw Tim come OUT of Benedict Hall. Meaning that he never saw Tim go IN.
This suggests to me that Tim was able to find another entrance to the Hall, found something that disturbed and frightened him inside it, and in fear went out the main door, leaving that door open for Jay to use. (As it turns out, I mean).
I still think the manhole we saw in the other building might be that way of getting in from an alternative place. I don't think it is of primary concern now when Jay's zapped away and Tim's hands are figuratively tied, but still, I wanted to point it out. What do you think?
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:14 am
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GnomonRose
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Joined: 25 Jan 2010
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Location: Taiwan

The "Bad Guy"
and also a thought about tunnels

I've been thinking about how this series has the Operator as the ultimate "boogeyman" and someone who possibly cannot be killed or understood fully even at the end of the series. To give the series more resonance and human relatability The Operator is not therefore really the main "bad guy" figure in the story, as there's nothing we can get our minds around with that creature. In the first season, maybe, he was the menace that everyone feared but by now we mostly have a confusing palette of possibly hostile figures with unclear motivations...but at least a sampling of various semi-reasonable motives for being hostile. Mostly it's Jay as a clear threat, even though he may have some explanation in the end for why he's acting like this, and others with possible motivations for being dangerous. Jay is our own stand-in mostly. But I just wanted to express gladness that we don't have just the Operator to hate and fear here; he's too ineffable and mysterious to have as an enemy figure.

Also tunnels, most of which are connected with water...one in the pump room. One tunnel in Rosswood. One manhole in the other college Hall. Maybe there is one more, comprising a 'quadrant' sort of thing. Maybe tunnels go between our world and Slendervania... Maybe that one Tim went through before is the fourth.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:36 am
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Ztakk
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Joined: 09 Jan 2013
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Master of Octopi wrote:
changing a subject's perception of time is not time travel.


He's also manipulating time itself as evidenced by the camera. If he were just changing people's perception of time, then the camera would be dead by the time it went to night (I hope this makes sense). Pretty much we've seen it go from day-night on camera, so TO is DEFINITELY manipulating time. This still doesn't prove anything on that whackjawed theory as manipulation of time isn't the same as time travel, just thought I'd clear this up for you.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:04 am
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Jibbles
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Joined: 20 Aug 2013
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but TO has been fucking with cameras since entry 1

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:39 am
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Marble Hornets
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Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 946

Point is, we've seen over 5 times now where the operator shoots people forward in time. Never has he done it backwards. If he were capable of doing it backwards, we would have seen it. They aren't holding that back until the last few entries, and it would be incredibly hard to explain at this point.

There is no reason to think any kind of time travel exists outside of traveling into the near future. The operator most likely advances day to night so it's easier for him/alex to stalk their prey.

Advancing from day to night should, like a user above said, affect the camera's battery. However, you have to suspend your disbelief in that regard. It's most likely that he instantaneously teleports people to his "4th dimension world" where time stands still, until time in the real world advances to night, and then teleports them back.

Tim's escapade in entry 65 was able to be shown because the operator didn't mess with the camera before teleporting tim. I know it's a crap explanation but really, you just have to have an imagination here. If backwards time travel was an option we'd have surely known about it by now as it would be a huge deal.


I can think of a great parody where people's amnesia occurred because of health related issues due to their body's weren't getting any sleep due to the above mentioned deception. Any time they went to sleep he would pull an entry 44 and teleport them to the 4th dimension world where time didn't move, then put them back in real time like 8 hours later. They would think they slept for 8 hours but in reality they only slept for a few seconds.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:17 am
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Sha Noran
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Joined: 29 Apr 2013
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Master of Octopi wrote:
My opinion on the whole "Hoody is Jay from the Future!" theory: I don't like it. It's sloppy, has no precedent, feels entirely out of place, would require far too much exposition, and just genuinely doesn't make sense. To shoehorn time travel into something like this is just... I don't want to say "stupid," but I'm having trouble finding a more appropriate adjective. For those who have proposed the Operator's ability to distort time as a vehicle for time travel: changing a subject's perception of time is not time travel. Else, every time you sleep without dreaming, you're time travelling! After all, you wake up in the future. Clocks lose approximately 100 nanoseconds every 70 years if elevated one foot above another clock. This is not time travel, it is relativity; a different perspective of time is not equivalent to traveling through it. This is all the Operator has been depicted doing; teleportation and altering perception of time. Not bashing anyone here, just proposing a counter argument. If those who prescribe to the theory are still inclined to do so, provide evidence that it is possible within the context of the series, and I will concede the point. Until then, I'm forced to treat it as a case of groupthink.

On Jay's fate: Who's to say that Jay is still wherever it is the Operator sends his/her/its victims? Tim was thrown in there in Entry #65, and managed to claw his way out. In fact, he was spat back out close to his car. Also recall that he was dragged through that place for a portion of his nightmarish stay there. (I'm going to use technological terms for illustrative purposes in the following idea to make the concept easier to grasp). Perhaps the Operator nabbed Jay and... uploaded him, in a sense, to his cloud server (the OperatorVerse). Then he downloaded him to another location where he could receive medical attention, like near a hospital or a back alley doctor who won't question him about bullet wounds? We could still go a while without seeing Jay, because the Operator stripped him of his precious camera, but Jay could still be alive. (Seems weird and unceremonious to compare the Operator to a DropBox user, but it's the closest analogy I could come up with).


Wow. You just claimed it was illogical and unprecedented for backwards time travel to happen and therefore unlikely, then immediately suggested that The Operator teleported Jay to a hospital to get help? ROFL you gotta be fucking kidding me bro.

All you guys saying that just because they've shown forward time travel doesn't mean backwards is possible sound pretty ridiculous in my opinion, no offense. We're talking about a show with a 8 foot+ faceless teleporting suit wearing monster who can abducted people into a pocket dimension that has a PRECEDENT of manipulating time itself and yet you argue with complete sincerity that just because they haven't shown backwards time travel, its not possible. Sorry, but that makes you sound pretty dumb haha, if you wanna argue the merits of a theory you should come up with some counter evidence, not just toss out a "meh I don't like that idea, so its probably wrong". Fuckin unfiction logic is baffling... I mean no offense, but damn.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:42 am
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Jibbles
Boot

Joined: 20 Aug 2013
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think about your theory from a story perspective

it sounds like a bad twilight zone episode and does not fit marble hornets at all, which is a very realistic and gritty take on tall suit monsters

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:21 am
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Ark is watching
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Sha Noran wrote:
Master of Octopi wrote:
My opinion on the whole "Hoody is Jay from the Future!" theory: I don't like it. It's sloppy, has no precedent, feels entirely out of place, would require far too much exposition, and just genuinely doesn't make sense. To shoehorn time travel into something like this is just... I don't want to say "stupid," but I'm having trouble finding a more appropriate adjective. For those who have proposed the Operator's ability to distort time as a vehicle for time travel: changing a subject's perception of time is not time travel. Else, every time you sleep without dreaming, you're time travelling! After all, you wake up in the future. Clocks lose approximately 100 nanoseconds every 70 years if elevated one foot above another clock. This is not time travel, it is relativity; a different perspective of time is not equivalent to traveling through it. This is all the Operator has been depicted doing; teleportation and altering perception of time. Not bashing anyone here, just proposing a counter argument. If those who prescribe to the theory are still inclined to do so, provide evidence that it is possible within the context of the series, and I will concede the point. Until then, I'm forced to treat it as a case of groupthink.

On Jay's fate: Who's to say that Jay is still wherever it is the Operator sends his/her/its victims? Tim was thrown in there in Entry #65, and managed to claw his way out. In fact, he was spat back out close to his car. Also recall that he was dragged through that place for a portion of his nightmarish stay there. (I'm going to use technological terms for illustrative purposes in the following idea to make the concept easier to grasp). Perhaps the Operator nabbed Jay and... uploaded him, in a sense, to his cloud server (the OperatorVerse). Then he downloaded him to another location where he could receive medical attention, like near a hospital or a back alley doctor who won't question him about bullet wounds? We could still go a while without seeing Jay, because the Operator stripped him of his precious camera, but Jay could still be alive. (Seems weird and unceremonious to compare the Operator to a DropBox user, but it's the closest analogy I could come up with).


Wow. You just claimed it was illogical and unprecedented for backwards time travel to happen and therefore unlikely, then immediately suggested that The Operator teleported Jay to a hospital to get help? ROFL you gotta be fucking kidding me bro.

All you guys saying that just because they've shown forward time travel doesn't mean backwards is possible sound pretty ridiculous in my opinion, no offense. We're talking about a show with a 8 foot+ faceless teleporting suit wearing monster who can abducted people into a pocket dimension that has a PRECEDENT of manipulating time itself and yet you argue with complete sincerity that just because they haven't shown backwards time travel, its not possible. Sorry, but that makes you sound pretty dumb haha, if you wanna argue the merits of a theory you should come up with some counter evidence, not just toss out a "meh I don't like that idea, so its probably wrong". Fuckin unfiction logic is baffling... I mean no offense, but damn.


Okay, the idea that the operator would take Jay to a doctor to fix his wounds is probably one of the least operator-esque behavior theories you could make.

Time travel to the past hasn't been shown as possible, and they've had good instances to use it, having Jay return to his house the previous day would be a great way to use it, or even sending Alex backwards through time to see himself as a kid being stalked. Its arguable that time travel to the future isn't shown either, merely time freezing. I know you will probably argue that "cause its a faceless entity, its possible" but that's not the precedent to a theory.

Yeah I know we haven't seen it so it's possible, but like I said, we haven't seen jay play a pipe organ, for all we know when he does it could project an operator proof force field.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:23 am
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AbyssalRook
Boot

Joined: 04 Dec 2013
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Ascalondion wrote:
Master of Octopi wrote:

Tim's behavior seems peculiar when he recovers Jay's camera. We get Alex picking it up and turning it off (nice of him to save the battery life) followed by a black screen. Then, Tim apparently has the camera; he starts recording, then stands up and starts saying, "No, no, no Jay, JAY!" Why in the world did he start recording right then? It doesn't make any sense to me. If he indeed sat down and watched the footage, it means that he flipped the camera from playback to record, stood up and then started his search. He never seemed to be as obsessed about recording everything as Jay has been. Taking that into account, it came off to me as... a show. That Tim deliberately waited to act as the concerned friend for us, to act as though Hoody was to blame. Maybe Tim set the thing up and left the note for Jay-- it's possible that that's what he was doing when Jay followed him. I like Tim, and I hope it's not true, but it's got me wondering.


Yeah, I've wondered about the picking up of the camera from ground by Tim too and like your thought. As I've already stated, I was unhappy with how much easy people were to agree on "Oh hey, Hoody totally set him up." Though SignerJ has some very valid points.

So for this looks like either Hoody or Tim must have been in a secret alliance with Alex. But who, and why? Hoody seems both very plausible and totally unlikely. Very plausible, because he is linked in a yet unknown way to the operator, has erratic behaviour and as well all the things from SignerJ's post. On the other Hand, Hoody seemed to be main antagonist of Alex. Alex, for the most part, looked like he was "on term" with TO, yet Hoody was a danger, threat and opposing force to him still. (He tried to kill him more than once!)

On the other Hand, why would Tim align himself with Alex? Maybe his masky persona could be a partner of Alex of the above mentioned reasons Hoody could also be. But then again, especially when under influence of his anti-operator pills seemed to be the more sane and sensible character to stop Alex.
However, as I am typing this, what comes to my mind is my earlier observation, that we know only of two characters that had contact to the TO before the filming of Marble Hornets: Tim and Alex. Don't know if it's relevant, but that's my thought process so far.


I don't believe that Tim is lying to us. The audience is coincidental in all of this, and as such he has no reason to lie to us. For another thing, if he were trying to hide something, then showing us any footage at all is absolutely stupid. If he wanted to lie to the audience, then we wouldn't be seeing any of this stuff.

Furthermore, if he were lying about how he felt, the text at the end of 80 "I don't know what to do," would have been something much more definite, and would have led to whatever end goals he has to get us on his side. Even if it were something like "I have to put an end to this" or "I have to find that guy in the hood" or "I have to stop Alex." Claiming that he doesn't know what to do would force him to put his intentions on hold in order to keep up the lie.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:35 am
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Master of Octopi
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Joined: 05 Sep 2013
Posts: 115

Ark is watching wrote:
Sha Noran wrote:
Master of Octopi wrote:
My opinion on the whole "Hoody is Jay from the Future!" theory: I don't like it. It's sloppy, has no precedent, feels entirely out of place, would require far too much exposition, and just genuinely doesn't make sense. To shoehorn time travel into something like this is just... I don't want to say "stupid," but I'm having trouble finding a more appropriate adjective. For those who have proposed the Operator's ability to distort time as a vehicle for time travel: changing a subject's perception of time is not time travel. Else, every time you sleep without dreaming, you're time travelling! After all, you wake up in the future. Clocks lose approximately 100 nanoseconds every 70 years if elevated one foot above another clock. This is not time travel, it is relativity; a different perspective of time is not equivalent to traveling through it. This is all the Operator has been depicted doing; teleportation and altering perception of time. Not bashing anyone here, just proposing a counter argument. If those who prescribe to the theory are still inclined to do so, provide evidence that it is possible within the context of the series, and I will concede the point. Until then, I'm forced to treat it as a case of groupthink.

On Jay's fate: Who's to say that Jay is still wherever it is the Operator sends his/her/its victims? Tim was thrown in there in Entry #65, and managed to claw his way out. In fact, he was spat back out close to his car. Also recall that he was dragged through that place for a portion of his nightmarish stay there. (I'm going to use technological terms for illustrative purposes in the following idea to make the concept easier to grasp). Perhaps the Operator nabbed Jay and... uploaded him, in a sense, to his cloud server (the OperatorVerse). Then he downloaded him to another location where he could receive medical attention, like near a hospital or a back alley doctor who won't question him about bullet wounds? We could still go a while without seeing Jay, because the Operator stripped him of his precious camera, but Jay could still be alive. (Seems weird and unceremonious to compare the Operator to a DropBox user, but it's the closest analogy I could come up with).


Wow. You just claimed it was illogical and unprecedented for backwards time travel to happen and therefore unlikely, then immediately suggested that The Operator teleported Jay to a hospital to get help? ROFL you gotta be fucking kidding me bro.

All you guys saying that just because they've shown forward time travel doesn't mean backwards is possible sound pretty ridiculous in my opinion, no offense. We're talking about a show with a 8 foot+ faceless teleporting suit wearing monster who can abducted people into a pocket dimension that has a PRECEDENT of manipulating time itself and yet you argue with complete sincerity that just because they haven't shown backwards time travel, its not possible. Sorry, but that makes you sound pretty dumb haha, if you wanna argue the merits of a theory you should come up with some counter evidence, not just toss out a "meh I don't like that idea, so its probably wrong". Fuckin unfiction logic is baffling... I mean no offense, but damn.


Okay, the idea that the operator would take Jay to a doctor to fix his wounds is probably one of the least operator-esque behavior theories you could make.


How dare you force me to look into a mirror and face my own hypocritic illogicality!

Yeah, I had already taken my sleeping pills before writing that. Waking up and rereading it is pretty embarrassing. So no, I don't think that the Operator teleported Jay to a hospital, though under the influence of Lunesta™, it made perfect sense. (Honestly, I'm impressed that my grammar didn't appear to suffer from the medication. It's like a drunk beautifully playing Chopin while insisting he's playing Bach.) Still, I don't think that Jay is necessarily trapped in the OperatorVerse The Operating Room; Tim managed to get out (he didn't have fun doing it, but he still got out). The only person we know for a fact hasn't escaped the Operating Room is the dead guy. We didn't see Jessica, Brian, Seth, or anyone but a dead body there (which understandably made no escape attempt). Jay'd have a harder time of it than Tim, possibly because he hasn't had a steady diet of Tim's pills for a while, and you know, having .38 lead poisoning. Point is that he could still be alive, which I think is likely. 'Course, he could be alive in a bunch of other ways, too.

Also, Sha Noran, no offense taken. Always happy to have my bullsh*t and/or idiocy called out Smile.

And I don't think that Tim was aligned with Alex, even temporarily; I think he had his own plan that got messed up, or had some kind of understanding with Hoody that didn't involve Jay getting ventilated. Not sure what exactly was going on with him, but my suspicions are aroused.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:15 am
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Sha Noran
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Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 919

Master of Octopi wrote:
Also, Sha Noran, no offense taken. Always happy to have my bullsh*t and/or idiocy called out .


Hey man, cool. Not really idiotic; I was pretty amused by the way the two passages lined up though haha. "Your crazy idea can't be right, its too crazy! ...so anyway, about my crazy idea..." Razz

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:38 am
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TheOperator
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Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 711
Location: You don't wanna know

Armentitron wrote:
What I can't understand is if in Entry #64 when Tim and Jay were in the tunnel Alex called them and told them to get out, why did he shoot Jay to encounter TO now?


I believe Alex has lost his humanity since then. Notice Entry #68 is the last entry chronologically that we see Alex speak and show any restraint in. Right after, the birthday after Alex's "last birthday" passes and Hoody asks if Alex is gone. Then in #73, Alex is completely silent and here he's completely silent again and doesn't think twice about shooting Jay. Even after shooting him, he coldly marches forward, prepared to shoot again if necessary!

My personal theory is that in a sense, Alex really did have his last birthday. His body carries on but his humanity is gone. He is now just TO's puppet. I think something happened in the maintenance tunnel at the end of #68. Hoody intentionally led Alex down there, perhaps hoping to finish him off but instead, it allowed TO to completely destroy Alex's soul. And Hoody isn't doing so hot right after that entry either.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:56 pm
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Kraehtot
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Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 438
Location: Hoody Hut

[quote="TheOperator"]
Armentitron wrote:


My personal theory is that in a sense, Alex really did have his last birthday. His body carries on but his humanity is gone. He is now just TO's puppet. I think something happened in the maintenance tunnel at the end of #68. Hoody intentionally led Alex down there, perhaps hoping to finish him off but instead, it allowed TO to completely destroy Alex's soul. And Hoody isn't doing so hot right after that entry either.



That would make a lot of sense, yes. I thought that something happened down there too.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:11 pm
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Master of Octopi
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Man, I'm thinking about it more now, and I'm kind of freaking out over Hoody's plan-- assuming, of course, that it was indeed his plan. If he intended for Jay to be taken, why? Can he somehow track Jay to the Operating Room? Is Jay like a beacon or something? (That'd be kind of interesting). Or is it just a method of manipulating the other players? I mean, assuming Tim wasn't complicit, he's going to be pretty upset over his friend getting shot and then kidnapped. Maybe it'll trigger a Masky episode, and we'll get an entry or two from Masky's perspective. Either way, I find it likely that Tim/Masky is going to be out for Alex's blood now.

(The above also assumes that Hoody is ToTheArk, and that this is the culmination of ToTheArk's assertion that "You will lead me to death... You will lead me to the ARK,").

Some have postulated that Jay posted the recent Tweets (I still feel ridiculous using words like "tweet" in a sentence, no matter how prevalent it is) that were encoded in Base64, after he was taken by the Operator. Some took it a step further and applied Jay's current state to one similar to those in the Collective of TribeTwelve. Maybe Hoody intends to track Jay that way, if it's true.

Maybe Jay's able to communicate from that plane because of his exposure to the pills? If so, why wouldn't Tim work just as well? Though Hoody may have intended for Tim to be taken rather than Jay.

I don't know, man. I wish this had an update schedule I could plan for.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:20 pm
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awakeasaurusrex
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Sha Noran wrote:
Wow. You just claimed it was illogical and unprecedented for backwards time travel to happen and therefore unlikely, then immediately suggested that The Operator teleported Jay to a hospital to get help? ROFL you gotta be fucking kidding me bro.

I think it's a huge stretch to apply such a benign motive to the operator too, but at least actual teleportation has been shown on-camera, unlike backwards time travel.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:34 pm
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