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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
Chronologically first entry?
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Sha Noran
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 		Yeah, now that we have it, 84 seems pretty conclusively the first footage chronologically. Alex is acting like a completely normal nervous film student, albeit socially awkward and dorky. Brian is acting like the chill, nice guy goofball we take him for prior to the events of 51. Tim is the only one acting strange, but due to what we know of his background, it makes sense that he's shy and awkward and willing to take the trusty sidekick role in his and Brian's friendship.

If we agree that this is the earliest tape, then the first ever chronological appearance of visual tearing occurs while Tim is on camera, just before the jump cut during his audition. The camera later malfunctions, and Alex can tell, so it is the camera itself, not just the tape or footage. As the camera malfunctions, it seems that TO appears, and again if this is the first tape chronologically, then this would be the first TO appearance.

TO stalked Alex because it was in his camera, and he got out of Tim somehow or has to do with filming Tim.

...holy SHIT, that would be why Alex blames Jay and also why TO started stalking Jay, because he interviewed Tim and filmed him, possibly releasing again in '09 what they had barely escaped in '06.

Also this explains some of Tim's later mannerisms, the incessant smoking, the facial hair, the aloofness, the too cool for school attitude. Sure, its possible he got his memory erased and just kept the style because he thought that's who be was, but to me its equally as possible that poor socially awkward Tim in his random ugly shirt kind of "learned to be cool" and "one of the guys" over the next few months and kept his persona from the film because he quite literally used that as a template for how to seem "cool".

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:08 pm
Last edited by Sha Noran on Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Geneaux486
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 		^This. All of this.

One thing that's still on my mind is the timing of totheark. Did Jay simply mentioning a "guy in a suit" to Tim back in season 1 actually restart all of this proper? Didn't totheark start posting videos after the interview with Tim?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:14 pm
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Sha Noran
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Geneaux486 wrote:
^This. All of this.

One thing that's still on my mind is the timing of totheark. Did Jay simply mentioning a "guy in a suit" to Tim back in season 1 actually restart all of this proper? Didn't totheark start posting videos after the interview with Tim?


No the first TTA was after Entry 9 I think. The interview was in the early teens.

This makes me wonder again about the ark. If TO can sort of live or exist in a camera, does that mean the camera from 84 (which by the way I think is the same camera as 26), Alex's own camera, is the ark? Jay's S1 camera broke in 23, but now in S3 many cameras have filmed Tim, though many are broken by now - maybe why they killed off the chest cam?

Aside from cameras being arks for TO, what about Tim himself? Looking at 84, it seems filming Tim either corrupted the camera or allowed TO to come out of Tim and infect the camera in a way. Perhaps Tim can simply deny TO's existence hard enough and it will return to Tim's head, where it belongs - ala Entry 72?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:32 pm
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Geneaux486
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Sha Noran wrote:
No the first TTA was after Entry 9 I think. The interview was in the early teens.


Then I wonder what triggered it. Did Tim and Brian somehow relapse when Jay started posting videos? Or were they suffering from these fugue states from the summer of 06 clear into Jay's youtube postings?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:44 pm
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Sha Noran
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Geneaux486 wrote:
Sha Noran wrote:
No the first TTA was after Entry 9 I think. The interview was in the early teens.


Then I wonder what triggered it. Did Tim and Brian somehow relapse when Jay started posting videos? Or were they suffering from these fugue states from the summer of 06 clear into Jay's youtube postings?


Well Masky jumped Jay in Brian's House of Horrors in '09, but I dunno about the 3 years in between.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:27 pm
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Ascalondion
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 		I agree with a lot of things, and although I do not like the idea that TO lives inside of cameras, it has some merit. Except for some TTA related questions (Who filmed Exit, and why?), I feel as if TO should be more of a wide-spread problem if it would be transferred by filming Tim. TO also cannot be "sealed" inside a camera, because then he would have been trapped in Amys/Alexs house until #26.

And I'm still disappointed that the chronological first TO appearance is so … random. Yes, it's the same day as he filmed Tim for the first time. But still, I had hoped we would understand the whole situation better if only we knew why TO was stalking Alex. Now we seem to know: Wrong place, wrong time. From there on Alex is merely the victim of TO's influence (I wonder why he acts differently to Alex than to Tim) TTA/Hoody/Brian is just pissed at Alex because he took him out too. This is so...unspectacular.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:31 pm
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lonsumtravlr
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Ascalondion wrote:
I agree with a lot of things, and although I do not like the idea that TO lives inside of cameras, it has some merit. Except for some TTA related questions (Who filmed Exit, and why?), I feel as if TO should be more of a wide-spread problem if it would be transferred by filming Tim. TO also cannot be "sealed" inside a camera, because then he would have been trapped in Amys/Alexs house until #26.

And I'm still disappointed that the chronological first TO appearance is so … random. Yes, it's the same day as he filmed Tim for the first time. But still, I had hoped we would understand the whole situation better if only we knew why TO was stalking Alex. Now we seem to know: Wrong place, wrong time. From there on Alex is merely the victim of TO's influence (I wonder why he acts differently to Alex than to Tim) TTA/Hoody/Brian is just pissed at Alex because he took him out too. This is so...unspectacular.


Well, it's unclear whether that actually is TO in that shot (looked like it in the still to me). Maybe TO comes to Alex when he gets inside that house (if he is going inside that house)?

I don't like the idea of TO "living inside" cameras either, but he could somehow have connection with those that capture either him or those he's stalking and then can use those to find others (as if they're his "eyes," as I've long seen on these boards).

Something's going on with that tape.

EDIT: Do we really need to know "why" TO came to stalk Alex if we come to know HOW and get some sort of revelation about what Alex has actually been doing since coming under TO's influence? We still don't have a full picture of that. But "why" and "how" are related though separate questions.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:49 pm
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lonsumtravlr
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Sha Noran wrote:
Yeah, now that we have it, 84 seems pretty conclusively the first footage chronologically. Alex is acting like a completely normal nervous film student, albeit socially awkward and dorky. Brian is acting like the chill, nice guy goofball we take him for prior to the events of 51. Tim is the only one acting strange, but due to what we know of his background, it makes sense that he's shy and awkward and willing to take the trusty sidekick role in his and Brian's friendship...

Also this explains some of Tim's later mannerisms, the incessant smoking, the facial hair, the aloofness, the too cool for school attitude. Sure, its possible he got his memory erased and just kept the style because he thought that's who be was, but to me its equally as possible that poor socially awkward Tim in his random ugly shirt kind of "learned to be cool" and "one of the guys" over the next few months and kept his persona from the film because he quite literally used that as a template for how to seem "cool".


Yeah. Tim's acting strange because he's likely new-ish to school and still unsure of himself. This is what I was trying to suggest (and apparently did a pisspoor job on the Entry #84 thread) when I said that this tape gave potential clues into the nature of Brian and Tim's friendship that are fairly benign now but could possibly be corrupted into an exploitative and possibly abusive relationship later when Brian and Tim adopt their Hoody and Masky personae.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:53 pm
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TheJoker
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 		Re: the post about it being "unspectacular"

Just because it's chronologically first that we've seen doesn't mean there aren't earlier encounters we haven't seen. We don't actually know for sure that it was just "wrong place, wrong time", nor do we know its motives for its apparent change in focus from Tim to Alex (although considering 37, it's always possible that they were *both* the focus to begin with).

And as for Brian, the idea that TTA is simply out for revenge has always been a likely theory. Though let's not forget, there's still the matter of Exit to be accounted for- someone who by all accounts seems to be Brian was filming Jay and Alex even before Alex attacked Brian or anyone else, so it's possible that Brian took on the identity of TTA before being attacked and there was more to his motives than simple revenge.

Basically, while 84 does seem to give some concrete answers, they're not confirmed beyond a shadow of a doubt.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:06 pm
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lonsumtravlr
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TheJoker wrote:
And as for Brian, the idea that TTA is simply out for revenge has always been a likely theory. Though let's not forget, there's still the matter of Exit to be accounted for- someone who by all accounts seems to be Brian was filming Jay and Alex even before Alex attacked Brian or anyone else, so it's possible that Brian took on the identity of TTA before being attacked and there was more to his motives than simple revenge.


It could have come after the events of Entries #51, 56, and 57. Jay may have been the last to be taken by TO and the last MH crewmember who Alex tried to "get rid of." (I haven't watched it in a while, so I don't remember the entry that Exit was a response to in some time, though I do remember the entry in its creepness.)

OR maybe it's third-party footage that TTA somehow got hold of. Which means... someone else found out about what was going on with Alex and got knocked off and Brian/Hoody/TTA somehow came across it?

This just makes everything worse, doesn't it?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:23 pm
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Ascalondion
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lonsumtravlr wrote:
TheJoker wrote:
And as for Brian, the idea that TTA is simply out for revenge has always been a likely theory. Though let's not forget, there's still the matter of Exit to be accounted for- someone who by all accounts seems to be Brian was filming Jay and Alex even before Alex attacked Brian or anyone else, so it's possible that Brian took on the identity of TTA before being attacked and there was more to his motives than simple revenge.


It could have come after the events of Entries #51, 56, and 57. Jay may have been the last to be taken by TO and the last MH crewmember who Alex tried to "get rid of." (I haven't watched it in a while, so I don't remember the entry that Exit was a response to in some time, though I do remember the entry in its creepness.)

OR maybe it's third-party footage that TTA somehow got hold of. Which means... someone else found out about what was going on with Alex and got knocked off and Brian/Hoody/TTA somehow came across it?

This just makes everything worse, doesn't it?


Yup, pretty much.

Although we have no way to tell, from the way Alex behaves I would say this one takes place before #51 etc. Alex seems so more focused and determined to get Brian and Tim to some TO-locations, whereas in #13 he really seems to scout the area out for himself, even sending Jay away to be alone.*
That would point to #13 taking place before #51. And that would point to the fact that whoever actually is, or is a part of, TTA has started to film TTA stuff before the events of #51. That either means Brian was TTA before Alex attacked him, or Brian was not a "founding member" of TTA, if it were the case that TTA is group of people.

But I think those thoughts derail the thread. Unless we can show by reasoning in this manner that some other entries (like #5 for example) actually take place even earlier. I do not see, however, what the explanatory gain of that would be.

*If I am correct, (please point out if I'm not) then #13 also features Jay's first visual appearance. Is that of any importance?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:11 pm
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MistrPibb
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 		On a sort of unrelated note, does anyone else get the vibe that Brian is related to Tim's years in the hospital? Maybe Brian is just the kind of guy who is everybody's friend, but he seems like someone hired to help Tim adjust to be more social.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:46 pm
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lonsumtravlr
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Ascalondion wrote:
Although we have no way to tell, from the way Alex behaves I would say this one takes place before #51 etc. Alex seems so more focused and determined to get Brian and Tim to some TO-locations, whereas in #13 he really seems to scout the area out for himself, even sending Jay away to be alone.*


That's a good point. In fact, this seems to be the only time in which he goes out to scout an area by himself (in the daytime at least) and is shocked, even frightened, by TO's appearance. I think it does too. I was spewing ideas out and probably should have controlled the spigot a bit more.

Ascalondion wrote:
That would point to #13 taking place before #51. And that would point to the fact that whoever actually is, or is a part of, TTA has started to film TTA stuff before the events of #51. That either means Brian was TTA before Alex attacked him, or Brian was not a "founding member" of TTA, if it were the case that TTA is group of people.


Yep, you're right, though it could just as likely be the case that there was not so much a TTA organization but someone else for whom the TTA we know and love took over. (I admit that the only real evidence for that is "Exit," and I don't really support it.)

Ascalondion wrote:
But I think those thoughts derail the thread. Unless we can show by reasoning in this manner that some other entries (like #5 for example) actually take place even earlier. I do not see, however, what the explanatory gain of that would be.


Not at all trying to derail the thread, and my apologies if I have. I think that sometimes I should think things through a bit better before responding to an entry (this actually is the first entry I've responded to on Unfiction on the night of its posting). I don't entirely agree that each of these thoughts is a penny on the track, but I probably should do a better job referencing entries when possible.

Ascalondion wrote:
*If I am correct, (please point out if I'm not) then #13 also features Jay's first visual appearance. Is that of any importance?


I believe you're right, but I'm not sure it's so important. (It seems to me that if anything his first actual appearance, which is Entry #5, is more important, because it shows that he's present during significant audio distortion and visual tearing and is also near the Red Tower and the Gazebo where Alex melts down.) The only thing it actually does is make his appearance on "Exit" less jarring, because the viewers get to see what he actually looks like before the TTA video is posted (so from a storytelling perspective, it's capably done).

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:29 pm
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lonsumtravlr
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MistrPibb wrote:
On a sort of unrelated note, does anyone else get the vibe that Brian is related to Tim's years in the hospital? Maybe Brian is just the kind of guy who is everybody's friend, but he seems like someone hired to help Tim adjust to be more social.


That's something I also thought. I went a different way in my post on the Entry #84 thread: I said that the tape Tim got from Hoody seemed to show that Brian had some sort of strong brotherly or other surrogate presence. I don't mean controlling or authoritarian; I just mean that he seemed to be helping to balance Tim somehow and to give him something that he'd lacked. But maybe he was a volunteer counselor or Big Brother or something like that and the friendship lasted? Might be.

My other point is that I could see how what seems to be a very benign relationship could be perverted into one of domination and submission after whatever the hell happened when TO took interest in Alex's movie project.

Thing is, though, Tim tells Jay in Entry #66 that he met Brian in college. But his memory of things isn't perfect. (EDIT: And this doesn't preclude his being hired or volunteering to help Tim out, and maybe a friendship grew?)

One of those things that we may never know for sure, but there might be something to that.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:38 pm
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Sha Noran
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 		... or maybe they had classes together and some common interests so they started chillin and became friends. Not that weird, lol.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:39 pm
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