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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Slender Man Mythos
On Slendyvlog Crossovers
Moderators: ChildOfAtom, Cougar Draven, DavFlamerock, Dixie_Wolf, ndemeter
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JosiahMiller
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Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Posts: 53
Location: Scary-ass location, Washington

Lithp wrote:
Quote:
Well to be fair, the DarkHarvest/Tribe Twelve crossover increased my interest for DarkHarvest so that isn't true at all.


But that's not going to mean shit if DarkHarvest can't keep your interest without crossing over. A crossover may cause a surge of activity, but after a while, it will regress back to the average.


I can tell you on authority that has not happened. The crossover opened up another series for me to enjoy. That's just fact.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:18 am
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awakeasaurusrex
Entrenched


Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 1099

But then you weren't a Dark Harvest follower before the crossover, so the crossover simply promoted one of the series in question, it didn't make you go from disliking Dark Harvest to following it.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:15 am
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Oransel
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Joined: 18 Jul 2012
Posts: 69

awakeasaurusrex wrote:
Then I don't think we're going to be able to usefully agree, Oransel, because I think they have already ruined several.


In the end it's all about the matter of different tastes. Some people like oranges, some don't like them and/or have allergy to them. Some people like crossovers, some people hate them and/or have allergy to web structure of Slenderverse.

I personally don't think that TT made EMH worse. In fact, I believe (sorry, Lithp) that TT revitalized EMH a bit and gave them more tools to work with.

Strictly indpendent storylines are as good as crossovered. Marble Hornets are good, but IMO TT is just as good.

JosiahMiller has a good point about promotion - I, like a lot of people, have not heard about DH before famous crossover and - who knows? - maybe we could lose one of the best series out there if it wouldn't be promoted.

Crossover-following audience is just as big as purists who watch only one brand for whatever reason. Even more people are content with just reading information about crossing series on wiki's and timelines and not being bothered too much.

Sure, some people hate following other series out of neccessity, I understand that. However, there is a reason for why creators of so many series choose to go this way and why so many people like crossovers or don't hate them at least.

Slendervlog genre is built around one character. His traits vary from series to series, but they have the same core. It's logical that people making/watching series about Slenderman make subconscious connections between so many series with same character and similiar plotlines (cliches, even). People subconcsiously and consciously want to unify the same story, which is just broken in parts. Yet they want to see it from different perspectives: that's why we have cult stories, creepypasta monster stories (reminds me of Kaiju films in some way), character/family stories, government conspiracies etc. I think that's the main reason for crossover fever aside from obvious reasons like promotion benefits, fun factor and good relations between various creators.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:20 am
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Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
Posts: 2058

JosiahMiller wrote:
Lithp wrote:
Quote:
Well to be fair, the DarkHarvest/Tribe Twelve crossover increased my interest for DarkHarvest so that isn't true at all.


But that's not going to mean shit if DarkHarvest can't keep your interest without crossing over. A crossover may cause a surge of activity, but after a while, it will regress back to the average.


I can tell you on authority that has not happened. The crossover opened up another series for me to enjoy. That's just fact.


You watch Dark Harvest even though you don't like it, because it might cross over again?

Quote:
JosiahMiller has a good point about promotion - I, like a lot of people, have not heard about DH before famous crossover and - who knows? - maybe we could lose one of the best series out there if it wouldn't be promoted.


I did specify "established series" for a reason. If people just haven't heard of you, well that's different, & not really "because" of the crossover, as any form of sufficient advertising would achieve the same effect.

Quote:
I personally don't think that TT made EMH worse. In fact, I believe (sorry, Lithp) that TT revitalized EMH a bit and gave them more tools to work with.


Well, here's another problem: The pro-crossover arguments all conflict with each other. Some people are telling me not to worry because this stuff isn't going to matter so I won't have to play catch up on anything, & others are telling me that they're going to be really beneficial & important to the story.

If this crossover actually does turn out to be important, it's going to be spun as, "See, we told you that this wasn't just irrelevant," & the part about alienating people who don't give a shit about Tribe Twelve is going to be either downplayed or ignored.

So, if I'm not really clear here, I'm saying that I don't know how to address the argument of Crossover Importance, because it's like hitting a moving target.

Quote:
It's logical that people making/watching series about Slenderman make subconscious connections between so many series with same character and similiar plotlines (cliches, even). People subconcsiously and consciously want to unify the same story, which is just broken in parts.


Is it? I didn't have to watch much of Tribe Twelve before realizing that it made no sense at all that it was in the same universe as EverymanHYBRID. There's not really any robust discussion about how these series could share the same world, just a few isolated things like "can the Severance Symbol be used on HABIT?" Someone said, "You have to ignore what doesn't make sense & focus on what can work." Well, people seem to be ignoring a lot, & focusing on a few things taken out of context.

And if we take this outside of the Slendervlogs, who is trying to connect Underworld & Buffy the Vampire Slayer, just because they are both stories featuring vampires in modern settings? Vampires have about as much in common between those 2 series as Slenderman has throughout the various vlogs.

It seems to me that most people, in most situations, have an understanding that different continuities are just that--different. The expectation of a crossover seems to be artificially created by a group of writers which encourage crossovers, such as in comics & fan fictions. Maybe this desire is PARTLY ingrained, but it must be a small part, because many writers don't ever cross over, not even with other stories that they wrote.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:24 am
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lachesis
Decorated


Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 225

awakeasaurusrex wrote:

This being the case, who in their right mind would deliberately alienate and piss off a section of their audience for the sake of giving a different section of their audience a little treat that that section of the audience would be perfectly happy if the crossover had never come to pass? Provided you don't actually announce a crossover then cancel it, nobody can be disappointed or angry that you didn't provide one - at least, nobody reasonable enough that their opinion is worth bothering with in the first place.


Dude, I'm with you. I've always been adverse to crossovers, mainly because I think it makes the narrative weaker and pokes huge plot holes into all kinds of important parts.
I really think the only reason anyone does it is to either share and expand fanbases or just for the personal novelty of pulling an already established character in without having to give them much backstory. (And honestly, most of them ARE done because the creators are just friends and near each other for however-long-enough-amount-of-time).
It's just weak sauce.

I've always been drawn by the way this universe is developed by groups of disparate people experiencing the same stuff hundreds of miles away from each other, without knowing one another. That was what made it scary for me. Now that the 'verse has expanded to the point of exploding, and 5 main series are taking a lead and running it up and over every shark they can find while hundreds of smaller series come and go like little farts in the the night, I'm just bummed that they're (the big 5) starting to meld into one thing.

It's almost like the death of a star.
"Stars expand as they grow old. As their core runs out of hydrogen and then helium, the core contacts and the outer layers expand, cool, and become less bright. This is a red giant or a red super giant (depending on the initial mass of the star). It will eventually collapse and explode."

But basically, the crossover hype has been driving me away from interest in most series.

just one man's opinion.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:55 pm
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SilentMedusa
Entrenched

Joined: 04 Jul 2013
Posts: 904

My own personal opinion is that if you can't tell your story without telling someone else's story, there's something wrong with your story.

Also, the number of creators (in any genre/medium) who think they can do a crossover well is significantly smaller than the number who actually can.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:32 pm
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Argoz
Greenhorn

Joined: 09 Mar 2014
Posts: 8

There's not a single crossover to my knowledge that has worked, and I've seen over 100 series in the past 2 years. Most of the time the creators throw out logic to make them work. They often do this for popularity, fanservice, or just because they fucking can. Yeah... I have a serious bias against crossovers and series who choose to do them. I'd just recommend to avoid them completely, just stick to the references instead.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:13 am
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Clairabel
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Joined: 13 Apr 2013
Posts: 177
Location: Birmingham, UK

Each creator has a reason for wanting to crossover - if it means altering the story to fit the crossover then they are the gods of their own universes and have the right to do whatever they damn well please with their own work.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:50 pm
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awakeasaurusrex
Entrenched


Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 1099

You've got the right to do what you like with your own work, but you don't have the right to insist that people agree that it was a good idea. Sometimes creators make bad decisions, and viewers have every right to point it out when creators are flushing their own creations down the toilet.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:14 pm
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JosiahMiller
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Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Posts: 53
Location: Scary-ass location, Washington

awakeasaurusrex wrote:
You've got the right to do what you like with your own work, but you don't have the right to insist that people agree that it was a good idea. Sometimes creators make bad decisions, and viewers have every right to point it out when creators are flushing their own creations down the toilet.

Yes. Some people don't want crossovers. Other people like myself do.
Creators will do them. Or they won't.
That's the ultimate point.
That's it.
Boom.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:16 pm
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Carnahan
Decorated

Joined: 28 May 2010
Posts: 215
Location: NJ

JosiahMiller wrote:
awakeasaurusrex wrote:
You've got the right to do what you like with your own work, but you don't have the right to insist that people agree that it was a good idea. Sometimes creators make bad decisions, and viewers have every right to point it out when creators are flushing their own creations down the toilet.

Yes. Some people don't want crossovers. Other people like myself do.
Creators will do them. Or they won't.
That's the ultimate point.
That's it.
Boom.

I think that's a solid way of putting it.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:09 am
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Oransel
Boot

Joined: 18 Jul 2012
Posts: 69

Quote:
I did specify "established series" for a reason. If people just haven't heard of you, well that's different, & not really "because" of the crossover, as any form of sufficient advertising would achieve the same effect.


Well, crossover is really the most efficient way of advertisement for this genre. Any other way would require lot's of money or a long period of time.

Quote:
Well, here's another problem: The pro-crossover arguments all conflict with each other. Some people are telling me not to worry because this stuff isn't going to matter so I won't have to play catch up on anything, & others are telling me that they're going to be really beneficial & important to the story.

If this crossover actually does turn out to be important, it's going to be spun as, "See, we told you that this wasn't just irrelevant," & the part about alienating people who don't give a shit about Tribe Twelve is going to be either downplayed or ignored.


Well, it's common thing to make conflicted arguments for the same thing if you have no idea on what to expect next.

Quote:
Is it? I didn't have to watch much of Tribe Twelve before realizing that it made no sense at all that it was in the same universe as EverymanHYBRID. There's not really any robust discussion about how these series could share the same world, just a few isolated things like "can the Severance Symbol be used on HABIT?" Someone said, "You have to ignore what doesn't make sense & focus on what can work." Well, people seem to be ignoring a lot, & focusing on a few things taken out of context.

And if we take this outside of the Slendervlogs, who is trying to connect Underworld & Buffy the Vampire Slayer, just because they are both stories featuring vampires in modern settings? Vampires have about as much in common between those 2 series as Slenderman has throughout the various vlogs.

It seems to me that most people, in most situations, have an understanding that different continuities are just that--different. The expectation of a crossover seems to be artificially created by a group of writers which encourage crossovers, such as in comics & fan fictions. Maybe this desire is PARTLY ingrained, but it must be a small part, because many writers don't ever cross over, not even with other stories that they wrote.


Your arguments make sense, of course. I'd apply your reasoning to absolute majority of all stories in all mediums (99%). However, Slendervlogs are different. It's not really Buffy & Vampire Slayer. It's the same character with same appearance and same abilities (including shapeshifting) with very minor variations and no backstory. There is literally no real barrier between different stories. I actually don't see how EMH and TT directly conflict each other.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:13 am
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Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
Posts: 2058

It's not really the same character, it's just the same type of monster, just like vampires are a type of monster with minor variations in different series. Slenderman runs the gambit. In some stories--& I'm speaking mainly of Creepypasta, here--he eats people, in others he's an extra-dimensional horror, in some there are more than 1 of him, in some he's a plant, etc.

Slenderman's MO differs in EMH as opposed to Tribe Twelve. In Tribe Twelve, he has a cult of followers, frequently uses his tentacles, can change his size, & I'm told he's referred to as "The Administrator." In EMH, these things are never used, & instead we get the addition of the trash bags & the black vomit. The Tribe Twelve Slenderman also seems to be more aggressive, but it's hard to tell.

Now, people usually tell me that there's nothing that explicitly says that he only has a single MO, but I think that's a lazy excuse. It doesn't prove that this is the same character so much as tell me to pretend that the differences do not exist. Also, if that's the justification that they're going with, then it implies that we won't get answers on things like the Sigma radiation, because Slenderman having a backstory would restrict the freedom to do crossovers.

That's just what I can glean without watching Tribe Twelve. It would be simply miraculous if they somehow avoided having dozens of inconsistencies, despite not synchronizing their writing styles from the beginning. Let alone for all of the series that are crossing over to work perfectly in this fashion. Shit, half of the time you can't rely on authors not to contradict themselves. And I'm talking professional, critically acclaimed, popular, & all that jazz.

As for advertisement, I found Marble Hornets through word of mouth & EverymanHYBRID through TV Tropes. The crossovers, assuming that they don't just piss me off, usually don't tell me anything that make the series stand out from others. Some kind of Slendervlog directory would be nice. If people will really watch something just because of a crossover, why would the Suggested Videos function of YouTube not be sufficient advertising? Is it some kind of rationale like, "If the Hybrids think it's good, then it must be"?

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:25 pm
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Clairabel
Decorated


Joined: 13 Apr 2013
Posts: 177
Location: Birmingham, UK

Carnahan wrote:
JosiahMiller wrote:
awakeasaurusrex wrote:
You've got the right to do what you like with your own work, but you don't have the right to insist that people agree that it was a good idea. Sometimes creators make bad decisions, and viewers have every right to point it out when creators are flushing their own creations down the toilet.

Yes. Some people don't want crossovers. Other people like myself do.
Creators will do them. Or they won't.
That's the ultimate point.
That's it.
Boom.

I think that's a solid way of putting it.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:55 am
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Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
Posts: 2058

It's the most literally true assessment of the situation, but not terribly informative.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:22 am
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