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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
[SPEC] Themes/Motifs in Marble Hornets/ToTheArk
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evanx275h
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 		[SPEC] Themes/Motifs in Marble Hornets/ToTheArk
Eyes, Fire, Water, and More!
I made this thread because, while there's a lot of discussion entry-to-entry about this, I have yet to find a hub where all of this info is collected together in an organized fashion, much like the "Who is TTA?" and Infographics threads.

So, here's this: THEMES in MH/TTA.

Basically, anything that pops up far too often throughout the series and response videos are, in my eyes, related to some form of theme, or at least an idea that could have some form of deeper meaning behind it. When such consistencies occur, one might start to believe that they hold more significance than previously thought. I figured, here, we can share these theories and ideas.

For #1, EYES, I wrote:
Eyes are constantly used as the obvious symbol of TTA "watching" whomever he/she/they are talking about in their responses. The eyes appear in different forms however, so maybe their relevance is a little bit more?

#1: The "Human" Eyes
These appear less frequently in TTA's videos, so I feel like they have less relevance outside the whole "watching you" message. Regardless, it doesn't hurt to name their locations:

-Isolation
-Surveillance
-Decay


#2: The Glowing Eyes
These have been much more frequent in seasons 2 and 3, and didn't seem to start until then. Such examples of the glowing eyes are:

-Memories (1)
-Memories (2)
-Classified
-Decay
-Display
-Decline
-Conversion
-File (maybe)
-Null

It can also possible be argued that the drawing of Hoody in Intermission might be a use of the eyes in that way, but that's going a bit too far, I think.


Also, as a much more pressing idea that these "glowing eyes" are significant is that, for the first time ever, they were present during the distortion in an Entry, Entry #83. This makes me think that they symbolize something. Maybe it symbolizes ToTheArk, but I have no idea how that would make sense, considering their appearance on several faces throughout the response videos... UNLESS, as an old theory, ToTheArk really does consist of several people.


For #2, THE ARK, I wrote:
The Ark is the most frustrating theme/occurance in my eyes, mainly because it's recently become this unspoken answer to the plot as a whole. It seems to be this "destination" that nobody can seem to arrive at. Or at least, we can assume that no one has yet.

The Ark was referenced, in order:

- ToTheArk's channel name (obviously)
- In Exit, at the end: "Whereis theark".
- Jay mentioning TTA's channel in Entry #19.
- Entry #####; "You will lead me to the ark."
- In Decay: "Lead me to the ark."
- The sign in Entry #79: "Find Alex, Find the Ark."
- In Null: "Ark Awaits".
- In Entry #83 (Paper that says "the ark")

That's all I can remember at the moment.
Funny, how something that seems so plot-relevant while being shrouded in mystery has been physically mentioned a total of six times (by my count, at least).


For #3, FIRE/WATER, I wrote:
So today I wanted to list MarbleHornets mentions of the water and fire motifs.

Depending on how much water might actually mean to the plot, it can be argued that water can be a theme as well, but only when compared to fire and how both are used as contrasting forces in the series.

Fire has been used in the following ways:
- Alex burned a big portion of the Marble Hornets tapes.
- Jay's house was burned down in Entry #25.
- Alex's "non-cannon origin story" discussing the burning of bodies on trees.
- Tim's old room was the epicenter of the Hospital fire.
- In Entry #83, Tim is shown the events of his room burning (speculation).

That's all I can think of for fire.

Water has been used in the following ways:
- Mostly in ToTheArk videos including Purity, Program, Broadcast, Display, and Null.
- Tim is teleported into water in Entry #65 by the Operator.
- The "recurring water bottle", appearing in Entry #16, Entry #17, and Entry #68.
- Benedict hall was flooded (Entry #81).

Surprisingly, that's all I can think of at almost 4 AM. I'll add more as I remember them, but what do you guys think? What significance does fire and water have?


For #4, LIARS, I wrote:
Lying/liars/lies seems to be both a theme and a motif, as they appear in multiple forms, including imagery (IM) as well as the form of an actual lie. (L)

The concept of someone being a liar was implied or mentioned in the following moments:
- In Messages, while TTA never directly calls Jay a liar, he does imply that Jay "has been keeping secrets". (IM)
- Alex may have lied to Seth to take him to the B.O.D. in Entry #22. (L)
- Jay lied to Jessica three times about the nature of his staying in the hotel, in Entries #28, 30, and 32. (L)
- As a controversial piece, enttry #37 might be one big lie altogether. (L)
- Alex lied to Jessica in Entry #44, reassuring her that Amy was fine. (L)
- Alex lied to Jessica and Jay in order to lead them out into the woods to kill them in Entry #52. (L)
- Jay lied to Tim about working on Marble Hornets again, in Entry #15 and throughout the beginning of Season 3. (L)
- In Session, TTA states that there are "liars everywhere". (IM)
- Alex lied to Tim about location-scouting by the abandoned hospital in Entry #56, and attacked him. (L)
- The message "He is a Liar" appeared on a wall in the abandoned hospital in Entries #60, 65, and 83. (IM)
- In Reference, TTA says "truth with light", possibly suggesting that someone is lying. (IM)
- Tim saying "No more secrets" in Entry #66. I'll go deeper into that a few bullets down. (L)
- TTA says "have you made me a liar?" in Decline.
- Alex lied to Amy about being home in Entry #70. (L)
- Alex burned all of his incriminating tapes and only allowed Jay to have the ones that victimized him (mentioned in Entry #72). (L)
- Conversion is the most "Liar" centered TTA video, constantly implying that one or more people are liars. (IM)
- Tim hid that tape from Jay, after specifically having said "No more secrets"#75[/b]. (L)
- Quadrant once again shows the "He is a liar" writing on the hospital wall. (IM)
- Alex made Jessica believe he was a friend, and led her to the tunnel to kill her in Entry #76. (L)

As a fun little fact based on this:
TTA has accused one or more people of being a liar a total of 8 times.
Alex has flat-out lied to people a total of 7 times.
Jay lied a total of 4 times.
Tim lied a total of once.

Now, the huge question here is the one that was a constant in Conversion: Who are the liars?
I don't mean someone that does it occasionally, I mean the compulsive liars that manipulate in order to meet their goals. So far, it seems like Alex has been the most frequent liar, and even compared with the lies by Tim and Jay, only Alex's have ever shown any immediate violent result.

With Jay, Tim, and Alex, who have all been narrators one point or another (Alex in some S1 Entries, Tim in some S3 Entries, and Jay throughout all 3), all of them may have been unreliable at one point or another. However, there's no way to tell for sure if any of them are lying in their respective Entries until we're flat-out told. That's been the case since the beginning.

As for TTA, it always seems to be the observer of the events, constantly pointing out its idea of a liar, but never have we considered TTA was lying. I don't believe it is, because it has always struck me as a neutral party, searching for the "ark" while inserting itself into the trio's predicaments. TTA, to me, seems like the most truthful and insightful entity in the series, and I have no idea why. Too soon to tell, I guess.

I likely missed a lot here, so feel free to correct me and I'll add more.


For #5, MEMORY, I wrote:
Memory is a recurring something in the series, and is one of the most pressing issues in the plot; one can't make theories from time to time without being blockaded with the classic "we don't know if that's true, they said they 'can't remember'" defense, or the "What order do these events happen in? If only they remembered" thing. Memory is, for lack of better words, annoying in a way that's sort of interesting.

Memory has been problematic in the following specific instances throughout the series:
- Jay cannot remember the events of Entry #17.
- Jay cannot remember the events of Return by TTA.
- Jay cannot remember the events of Entry #20.
- Alex cannot remember "what happened" in Entry #22.
- Jay cannot remember leaving in Entry #24.
- Jay cannot remember the past seven months in Entry #27.
- Jessica cannot remember how she got to the hotel (Entry #33).
- Tim shows no sign of remembering being Masky when Jay first runs into him in Entry #53.
- Tim explains "waking up in a car with blood in his hair, with no idea how it happened, in Entry #59.
- Tim explains missing huge chunks of his life, from week-to-week, also in Entry #59.
- Tim wakes up at the end of Entry #62, having completely forgotten being Masky.
- Tim seemed to forget everything as he was tossed back and forth through Oppy's Dimension in Entry #65.
- Tim obviously doesn't remember the events of Entry #67 - Otherwise he lied about it.
- Jay cannot remember the events of Entry #71.
- Jay cannot remember anything after the events of Entry #72, past visiting the basement.
- Jessica hardly remembers Alex in Entry #76.
- Tim cannot remember the events of Entry #76.
- Jay may have been memory-wiped after the events of Entry #82.

In total, Tim has forgotten things (on-camera) 7 times.
Alex has forgotten things (on-camera) once.
Jay has forgotten things (on-camera) a total of 8 times.
Jessica forgot things (on-camera) twice.

Memory has been mentioned in the following TTA videos:
- The title of the video Memories, obviously.
- Inquiry asks "Who are you?" implying that the viewer seems to have forgotten.
- Reminder asks if the viewer "remembers" and says "I have not forgotten".
- Display shows the word "remember" a the beginning.
- Conversion teases "Remember to look behind you".

That's all I got right now in terms of collecting everything. I'll post theories about memory in a bit.


PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:27 pm
Last edited by evanx275h on Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:05 pm; edited 8 times in total
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evanx275h
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 		"Eyes" was just added at the top.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:31 pm
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Lithp
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 		Well, there's the obvious case of recurring characters. I believe that includes The Operator, Jessica, Tim/"Masky", Jay, & Alex. Others, such as Sarah, generally do not reoccur.

Semi-related, distorted faces of the cast members & faces that are just generally inhuman are repeating themes.

Oh, liars, that's also kind of obvious. And the Ark, which is pretty much King Obvious.

That is all that I can think of at the moment.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:46 pm
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evanx275h
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 		Just added "The Ark" at the top.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:53 pm
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ledzepfilm
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 		The Ark is referenced in Decay as well. #83 has a paper saying "THE ARK."
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:49 pm
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DJay32
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 		I might be wrong, but I've noticed a significant focus on closure as a theme, especially when Jay is involved. Jay wanted closure on whatever the hell happened. Tim rejected closure and instead chose pills (and, when offered pills, Jay refused), getting mad at Jay for bringing things back up again in Entry 59 but eventually coming to terms with the idea. totheark seeks closure but is too messed up to directly ask for help, so they elect to helping however they can, which usually amounts to provoking characters into action. Alex rejects closure because he sees himself as one of the causes behind whatever horrible thing this was all started by, so he wants to hide all evidence that he was to blame for anything and cover up any loose ends, usually by killing people.

As for eyes, water, and fire, those are all motifs, not themes. <_< But then again, I'm being a little pedantic.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:43 pm
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evanx275h
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 		DJay32 makes a good point, so I've edited the post title to account for motifs AND themes. Sorry about that.

Anyways, I figure I'd post something new here every day, as Marble Hornets has a lot of these things to theorize/play with.

Just added "fire/water" at the top.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:47 am
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Lithp
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 		It was OOC, but Joseph mentioned that The Operator "likes fire."

Expanding on the liar thing a bit, I've noted that ToTheArk seems to have an extremely literal definition of the word. The strongest evidence for this comes after his failed attempt to kill Alex, when he says, "Have you made me a liar?" Well, most people would say, "No, ToTheArk, you just foolishly made a promise that you couldn't keep, but you were sincere at the time." But apparently not ToTheArk, & this explains why he accuses people of lying who don't seem to be withholding any evidence.

Then again, we've also seen that appearances can be deceiving, & that Jay & Tim were both keeping things from each other the whole time.

As far as character themes go, there's an emphasis on irrationality/paranoia, mostly with Jay & Alex.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:21 am
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Sha Noran
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 		Re: #3: FIRE/WATER (MH/TTA)
evanx275h wrote:
Water has been used in the following ways:
- Mostly in ToTheArk videos including Purity, Program, Broadcast, Display, and Null.
- Tim is teleported into water in Entry #65 by the Operator.

Surprisingly, that's all I can think of at almost 4 AM. I'll add more as I remember them, but what do you guys think? What significance does fire and water have?

Personally I believe that fire repels the Operator, and the Operator itself uses water, somehow. If Alex's origin story is true (which I doubt considering this was confirmed OOG by Trosephim, but why not, let's play "what if"), then the Operator would naturally be repelled by fire, as fire would be the reason for its horrific conception. The burning of Jay's house would then make sense as a way of getting the Operator to stop following Jay, as well as Tim attempting to burn down his Hospital room - all to get the Operator away. Alex burning the tapes would also be his way of "erasing" the Operator with what it hates. TONS of plot holes in my theory, but I'm just having fun.


You're missing a lot of water references, such as the recurring water bottle from S1 that turned out to be a Hoody+Tim symbol or early indication that TTA had been somewhere or was involved. There's one in Brian's house from 16, Tim asks for someone to pass him his water bottle in the Entry where TO is just standing outside the window in some '06 footage, Hoody sips from one in 68 before Alex shows up... There's more, those just come to mind immediately. Also the building at the college for the film department flooded (see:Entry 81). Also each individual use of water as a motif in the TTA vids should be listed individually, because there are an assload of them and they vary - sometimes its visual, sometimes its text (i.e. "are you drowning"). Also "The Tunnel" from Bruce getting squished, 64/65, 82, etc. which is so obviously a TO agro point, was built for water. Also the abandoned pool and poolhouse from Entry like... 14? Where Alex goes ahead alone while Jay runs back to the car for a camera battery (and gets filmed by TTA in '06, footage used in Exit). Also the Basement of Doom from 22/23 has an awful lot of pipes and water related stuff.

And if you're counting OOG statements, then you're completely backwards about TO - Trosephim said he likes fire, and also straight up went Word of God and confirmed Alex was just telling a spooky story and not giving TO's background in that one Entry (38? Not sure of the number). It could be that fire and water are both utilized by TO - given his ability to teleport people, a large fire or body of water give him an opportunity to trap people to death without just making them infinitely lost in the woods.

A more complete list would be helpful though, and I'm liking the thread - keep it up. You might consider the motif of the pills, the Magic Pills, also used in Friday the 13th and Space Jam, for a couple easy examples... Do they actually help vs TO or is it the placebo effect? It is definitely a running theme/motif.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:10 pm
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evanx275h
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 		So I set up this thread a different way; I'll be constantly editing the first post to add each motif so they don't get lost in the comment thread.

I just added a new one, "Liars". Have at it!
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:54 pm
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Moshakra
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 		slenderman and masky are recurring themes

PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:14 pm
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ledzepfilm
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 		Those are characters, not themes.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:24 pm
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Master of Octopi
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 		Identity and loss are recurring themes throughout the series.

I mean, first we have Tim as the most extreme example of both. He lost his identity almost completely prior to season one, eventually donning his iconic mask. There was very little of him left until the events of Entry #76 took place (which is where I posit that Masky became Tim again). And a couple of times since, his identity has been taken over by his Masky counterpart.

Then you have Hoody, whoever he happens to be. His identity has been completely replaced-- at least, it appears so. My assumption is that he had been normal before whatever took place during the Marble Hornets shoot.

Alex has been becoming more and more like the Operator as the series has progressed. It even goes so far as to have a distortion shot of him in an Operator-esque suit in Entry #76. He was once a guy who had friends, who was capable of relationships and was stable. Now it seems like his only motivation is doing whatever the Operator wants (or what he thinks the Operator wants).

Jay doesn't even remember his family or what he was doing before this. He lost his memories and, honestly, what is someone's identity but a set of principles based on past experiences? His identity is shaped almost entirely by the events of the past few years.

As for loss, well, Alex lost Amy (if he ever had her and didn't deliberately lure her to the Operator, a scenario I find disturbing but possible). Tim lost Brian, the only friend he'd ever really had. Jay lost his identity, and maybe even his life, not to mention his apartment, Jessica, and pretty much everything he used to care about. I can't speak for Hoody's losses, since I don't know who he is, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that he's lost something significant, which precipitated his involvement.

Sorry if I was too wordy; the English Lit degrees are begging to be used.

That's all I have for now. If I come up with more I'll post it.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:17 pm
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evanx275h
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 		Just added "Memory" to the top. I feel like I'm missing a TON there, so help me out if you can. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:04 pm
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lonsumtravlr
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evanx275h wrote:
Just added "Memory" to the top. I feel like I'm missing a TON there, so help me out if you can. Very Happy


The questionable reliability of a narrator's/cameraperson's perspective is a major theme, and editing seems to be a related motif.

That's as perspicacious as my flu-addled brain can be right now, I think.

Edit: They're related to the memory and loss themes, but they stand alone.

Edit Jr. (with spoilers for those who haven't watched far into season three yet):
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Hard to pick only one or two episodes for the unreliable narrator/cameraperson--as it's largely a found footage series, the narrator/director is always questionable--but the story arc from Entry #77 to Entry #82 shows two diametrically opposite reactions of Jay to the tape that had purportedly been planted on Tim after the events of Entries #61 and #62, Entry #65 with the chest cam's capture of things that shouldn't be possible to capture on film or digital, Entry #67 as corrupted footage from a damaged tape, Entry #76 with some difficult to explain footage near the end, Entry #80 with at least three perspectives, Entry #81 with its footage placed side-by-side with that from Entry #79 to show what purportedly happened to Tim as Jay followed him into Benedict Hall, Entry #82 which calls Jay's behavior from Entry #77 and Entry #78 into question and also shows Tim finding Jay's laptop, and Entry #83 with its multiple perspectives and also apparent capture of at least Tim's emotions and memories as well as what he was seeing as he and Hoody teleported around.

As for editing... well, right from the start Jay admits that he's only posting entries if he finds footage to be of interest. Sound is removed, footage is corrupted, some footage may have been doctored by Alex to make himself look like more of a victim than he was, someone (Tim) who "isn't the movie guy" quite quickly learns how to edit video, Jay's own mental and physical stability deteriorate while he's pursuing the truth. Enttry #38 seems to have been doctored, and I think Entry #76 was as well at the end. How much of any of this footage should be trusted, even if we think that Jay was mainly pure in that he was after truth, that Tim isn't really more sinister than he's seemed to be since Entry #59 at least, and that Alex is either off his nut or evilly off his nut?

Edit III: I actually think that this latter is one way of arguing around the objection raised about MH's realism that it couldn't really happen because in real life the authorities would be contacted and involved. Even with the footage of a murder in commission, it's tough to separate all of this footage out from any well-choreographed web series.


PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:20 am
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