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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Slender Man Mythos
[LOCKED] [NEWS/META]Stabbing of 12-year-old in Wisconsin
Moderators: ChildOfAtom, Cougar Draven, DavFlamerock, Dixie_Wolf, ndemeter
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knifebladepresents
Unfettered

Joined: 29 Mar 2013
Posts: 504
Quote:
Thanks for that article booba...but I'm kind of concerned about this part:

"Knudsen, too, has lamented losing control of his creation.

"I feel like less of a creator and more of an administrator, in a lot of respects, or the manager," he told NPR in the interview from January. Knudsen, who could not be immediately reached for comment, has filed for a copyright on the character.

"I feel like I'm Slenderman's manager, and he's out there doing his thing, and I need to just kind of watch him and take care of him."

Is Victor Surge going to take back Slendy via legal action? This could possibly be a large road bump for creators...Or maybe not, I have no idea what he has in store if he ends up getting that copyright. I hope he doesn't stop our fun because he's most likely under scrutiny now by rando's who feel the need to bitch at the source.



This is the reason why all those movies about Slender Man keep getting cancelled because of copyright reasons. I have a feeling the creators of "Slender" might own it.

I don't think it would affect the characters. I mean, George R. R. Martin hates fanfiction. Look how much GoT fanfic there is.

Only the really big series would fall under its radar, but even then Marble Hornets wouldn't have to worry about it because Operator is juuuuussst different enough that they don't have to worry about it. Besides, Victor LIKES Marble Hornets.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:52 pm
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Carnahan
Decorated

Joined: 28 May 2010
Posts: 215
Location: NJ
knifebladepresents wrote:
Quote:
Thanks for that article booba...but I'm kind of concerned about this part:

"Knudsen, too, has lamented losing control of his creation.

"I feel like less of a creator and more of an administrator, in a lot of respects, or the manager," he told NPR in the interview from January. Knudsen, who could not be immediately reached for comment, has filed for a copyright on the character.

"I feel like I'm Slenderman's manager, and he's out there doing his thing, and I need to just kind of watch him and take care of him."

Is Victor Surge going to take back Slendy via legal action? This could possibly be a large road bump for creators...Or maybe not, I have no idea what he has in store if he ends up getting that copyright. I hope he doesn't stop our fun because he's most likely under scrutiny now by rando's who feel the need to bitch at the source.



This is the reason why all those movies about Slender Man keep getting cancelled because of copyright reasons. I have a feeling the creators of "Slender" might own it.

I don't think it would affect the characters. I mean, George R. R. Martin hates fanfiction. Look how much GoT fanfic there is.

Only the really big series would fall under its radar, but even then Marble Hornets wouldn't have to worry about it because Operator is juuuuussst different enough that they don't have to worry about it. Besides, Victor LIKES Marble Hornets.


My distaste with the media control of this nonsense, is in the wording RIGHT THERE. If there is more to the interview, then fine, I am wrong -- but NO WHERE in that direct quote of his does he "lament" his creation. They're basically pinning in that he "regrets" the creation, as if he's taking blame for this bull. It's about the victim, their recovery, and their justice -- not about scapegoating or pointing the finger.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:12 pm
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knifebladepresents
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Joined: 29 Mar 2013
Posts: 504
Quote:
My distaste with the media control of this nonsense, is in the wording RIGHT THERE. If there is more to the interview, then fine, I am wrong -- but NO WHERE in that direct quote of his does he "lament" his creation. They're basically pinning in that he "regrets" the creation, as if he's taking blame for this bull. It's about the victim, their recovery, and their justice -- not about scapegoating or pointing the finger.


Oh, hi Jeff.

If you read the article more closely, you should've picked up on this line:

Quote:
"I feel like less of a creator and more of an administrator, in a lot of respects, or the manager," he told NPR in the interview from January. Knudsen, who could not be immediately reached for comment, has filed for a copyright on the character.


He couldn't be reached for comment, so no news people have contacted him yet. We don't know his response.

I think, while he wouldn't entirely blame himself, he's horrified that someone would do this because they were inspired by his creation.

And I don't think the series creators have anything to actually worry about, because the girls were inspired by creepypasta.com and none of them have even mentioned Marble Hornets, nonetheless EverymanHYBRID or Tribe Twelve. If they did watch those series, it wouldn't make much sense because EMH or TT really have actual "proxies" in them. Marble Hornets has them, but you don't really become a proxy by killing somebody...plus, proxies like Tim HATE being proxies. They regret it.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:21 pm
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Dacad
Veteran

Joined: 25 Oct 2013
Posts: 121

 		It sounds more like Knudsen had been complaining about stuff with copyrights. He had not yet commented on the stabbing. And I don't think he's going to try and sue people. He's supported writers in the past, and I don't see him turning into RIAA or Disney now.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:26 pm
Last edited by Dacad on Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Carnahan
Decorated

Joined: 28 May 2010
Posts: 215
Location: NJ
knifebladepresents wrote:
Quote:
My distaste with the media control of this nonsense, is in the wording RIGHT THERE. If there is more to the interview, then fine, I am wrong -- but NO WHERE in that direct quote of his does he "lament" his creation. They're basically pinning in that he "regrets" the creation, as if he's taking blame for this bull. It's about the victim, their recovery, and their justice -- not about scapegoating or pointing the finger.


Oh, hi Jeff.

If you read the article more closely, you should've picked up on this line:

Quote:
"I feel like less of a creator and more of an administrator, in a lot of respects, or the manager," he told NPR in the interview from January. Knudsen, who could not be immediately reached for comment, has filed for a copyright on the character.


He couldn't be reached for comment, so no news people have contacted him yet. We don't know his response.

I think, while he wouldn't entirely blame himself, he's horrified that someone would do this because they were inspired by his creation.

And I don't think the series creators have anything to actually worry about, because the girls were inspired by creepypasta.com and none of them have even mentioned Marble Hornets, nonetheless EverymanHYBRID or Tribe Twelve. If they did watch those series, it wouldn't make much sense because EMH or TT really have actual "proxies" in them. Marble Hornets has them, but you don't really become a proxy by killing somebody...plus, proxies like Tim HATE being proxies. They regret it.


I did read the post... he never "lamented it," and filed for copyright before this incident, LONG before it. I'm not arguing with you, really, but this is all information construed into a journalistic spin. I'm not calling you out, I'm just applying information I've known and heard from him for years at this point. He's not "lamenting" until he says it in a current interview. They're trying to spin guilt.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:38 pm
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knifebladepresents
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Joined: 29 Mar 2013
Posts: 504
Quote:
I did read the post... he never "lamented it," and filed for copyright before this incident, LONG before it. I'm not arguing with you, really, but this is all information construed into a journalistic spin. I'm not calling you out, I'm just applying information I've known and heard from him for years at this point. He's not "lamenting" until he says it in a current interview. They're trying to spin guilt.


Yeah, sure, I understand Jeff. I see what you mean. I noticed that a couple news outlets seem to be trying to spin the guilt, but do so rather subtly.

But the Huffington Post did just make this. Not saying you're wrong, but it's worth the read. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/04/slenderman-creator-eric-knudsen-speaks-out_n_5449334.html

Spokeswoman? Huh? I'm not sure why he needs one...

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:07 am
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Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
Posts: 2058

 		To completely switch gears for a moment, I had the thought that "condolences" makes it sound as though people aren't expecting the girl to make it. I certainly hope that's not the case.

Quote:
Deciding that they're lying might "seem" simpler; but it really isn't because now there needs to be some other theory of the crime, and since we've rejected out-of-hand everything the assailants have told us about why they did it, we can only create such a theory out of whole cloth - i.e, completely making things up, which makes any alternative we come up with no more credible than the original story.


No, because you are making a few dubious assumptions:

1. There is not sufficient cause for a reasonable doubt to their honesty. Do I even have to explain why there is?

2. Their honesty should be assumed a priori & needs no explanation. The neutral position is actually "I don't know what the Hell is going on." Any shift from that is just as much of an assertion as anything else.

3. Inferences about the motive can only come from what they specifically say about the motive itself or by "making it up," as if there is no other information presented by the perpetrators, the families, the police, or the reporters. The other obvious problem here is that this method of inference would always be fooled by a dishonest perpetrator.

Also, there's not much point in putting the word "seem" in quotes, as I deliberately chose that term.

Quote:
It's also pretty arbitrary to accept what the girls have said about planning the murder as perfectly believable, but reject everything they've said about their motive.


The assumption here is that the statements are all equally plausible.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:47 am
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Checkmite
Boot

Joined: 20 Dec 2010
Posts: 56
Lithp wrote:

No, because you are making a few dubious assumptions:

1. There is not sufficient cause for a reasonable doubt to their honesty. Do I even have to explain why there is?


I should think you ought. I don't think the possibility that they could easily be lying automatically translates as sufficient cause to doubt their statement of motive outright unless either 1) a mutually exclusive theory of the crime exists which is better supported by evidence, or 2) it can be positively demonstrated that some part of their statement is incorrect or impossible.

Lithp wrote:
2. Their honesty should be assumed a priori & needs no explanation. The neutral position is actually "I don't know what the Hell is going on." Any shift from that is just as much of an assertion as anything else.

3. Inferences about the motive can only come from what they specifically say about the motive itself or by "making it up," as if there is no other information presented by the perpetrators, the families, the police, or the reporters. The other obvious problem here is that this method of inference would always be fooled by a dishonest perpetrator.


Well certainly inferences can be drawn from such other sources; but right now, there happens to have in fact been no evidence or information provided by any of these other parties which contradicts the girls' statements as to their motive. As it stands, one of the assailants' brother has corroborated that she had an interest in Slender Man and creepypasta. The point wasn't that their word trumps "all other evidence", the point is that in this case, at this time, there is no other evidence. There needs to be a compelling reason to reject the assailant's statement of motive and you haven't suggested one aside from the implication that criminals often lie about their motives - which is useless information because criminals also often tell the truth about their motives.

Lithp wrote:
Quote:
It's also pretty arbitrary to accept what the girls have said about planning the murder as perfectly believable, but reject everything they've said about their motive.


The assumption here is that the statements are all equally plausible.


I don't find their statements as to motive implausible. Why do you?

I don't find them logical or sensible, but that's probably why I'm not a knife-murderer.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:15 am
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Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
Posts: 2058

 		That is not how it works. "A can't be proven false" is not a reason to presume that A is true. If you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe some of these:

http://www.txstate.edu/philosophy/resources/fallacy-definitions/Appeal-to-Ignorance.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_ignorance

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Negative_proof

http://philosophy.lander.edu/scireas/ignorance.html

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/ignorant.html

And you literally kicked this off by responding to a post containing some of the reasons why I doubt the story, so I'm not going to be repeating myself on that front.

[edit - removed spoiler tags; they are only for puzzle solves or plot points in a tv shows/movies/books so other members aren't spoiled if they haven't solved or watched or read for themselves yet - kona]

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:35 am
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SignerJ
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Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 514
Location: Earth
Carnahan wrote:
I did read the post... he never "lamented it," and filed for copyright before this incident, LONG before it. I'm not arguing with you, really, but this is all information construed into a journalistic spin. I'm not calling you out, I'm just applying information I've known and heard from him for years at this point. He's not "lamenting" until he says it in a current interview. They're trying to spin guilt.


I agree with you on the journalistic spin thing. Thanks for catching that.

On a different topic, is it even possible for Surge to copyright the Slender Man character at this point?

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:48 am
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lonsumtravlr
Entrenched

Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 1009
Location: The Great Continent of New England
SignerJ wrote:
Carnahan wrote:
I did read the post... he never "lamented it," and filed for copyright before this incident, LONG before it. I'm not arguing with you, really, but this is all information construed into a journalistic spin. I'm not calling you out, I'm just applying information I've known and heard from him for years at this point. He's not "lamenting" until he says it in a current interview. They're trying to spin guilt.


I agree with you on the journalistic spin thing. Thanks for catching that.

On a different topic, is it even possible for Surge to copyright the Slender Man character at this point?


If he can document his being the creator, yes. The Marble Hornets guys wouldn't stand in the way. Both sides have said that while they share some similarities, the characters are very different.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:00 am
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Cyan507
Entrenched


Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Posts: 751
Location: Ireland

 		http://boards.4chan.org/b/thread/549706591

when you thought humanity couldn't go any lower.

EDIT: The link, now dead lead to a thread on 4chan hosting an operation to harass the parents of the victim by sending letters to their house, claiming to be part of a cult worshiping slender man.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:39 pm
Last edited by Cyan507 on Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Checkmite
Boot

Joined: 20 Dec 2010
Posts: 56
Lithp wrote:
That is not how it works. "A can't be proven false" is not a reason to presume that A is true.


But that's not an accurate description of this situation. Quite contrarily, the girls' story certainly could be proven false, and to date has not been. That's a perfectly good reason to accept it as true pending evidence otherwise.

Lithp wrote:
And you literally kicked this off by responding to a post containing some of the reasons why I doubt the story, so I'm not going to be repeating myself on that front.


Well, personal incredulity. That's fine and not necessarily invalid reasoning, but it doesn't equate to their story being objectively implausible - it isn't. There's nothing about it that is especially unbelievable.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:21 pm
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Checkmite
Boot

Joined: 20 Dec 2010
Posts: 56
Cyan507 wrote:
http://boards.4chan.org/b/thread/549706591

when you thought humanity couldn't go any lower.


Yeah, I was much more concerned about this kind of thing than bad press. Ugh.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:49 pm
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SignerJ
Unfettered


Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 514
Location: Earth
Cyan507 wrote:
http://boards.4chan.org/b/thread/549706591

when you thought humanity couldn't go any lower.


This is detestable. I can't believe that people would actually do this.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:53 pm
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