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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
[VIDEO] Entry #86
Moderators: Giskard, JKatkina, Zarggg
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Dacad
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Joined: 25 Oct 2013
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 		I've brought this up before, but totheark specifically told us "she's out there". Maybe it was Jessica, maybe Sarah, maybe Amy (I'd imagine Alex would, on some level, be bad at killing her). Alex said "if he's alive", but he might not have realized it was a she.

Finally, my thoughts on Tim, from a very wise person: No, not your fault. Look at me. Not your fault. It's not your fault to want to be human. To want to reach out to people. That's what you guys do. You're very social creatures, you're all about the togetherness and shit like that. You can't blame yourself for the fact that she was eaten by a monster.

If you can't trust the wisdom of the guy who said that, I don't know whose wisdom you can trust.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:50 pm
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censura_umbra
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Geneaux486 wrote:
evanx275h wrote:
suspend uncertainty for a moment and assume that, yes, Tim did say "You missed one" and that Alex did say "You have to kill him, and then yourself" -- implying that there is still one unknown character left that survived all of this.


We can nitpick what exactly Alex said in his last moments, but the fact remains that Alex indicated that at least one person is still alive, and that Tim will have to kill that person, then himself. "If (he/they're) still alive, you have to kill (him/them), then yourself." I still think Tim was referring to this mystery person in saying "You missed one", 'cause the whole one-liner, final taunt thing doesn't seem like something Tim would do as he murdered another human being, an act Tim was trying to avoid at all cost and that caused him to vomit shortly thereafter.


Tim said you missed someone as a taunt to Alex. While Alex is choking Tim, Tim says "You aren't containing it! You're Feeding it!" then "When you killed Amy, did you feel in control then?" then TIM STABS ALEX IN THE NECK and says "You missed someone" The "Bitch" at the end of that line heavily implied. That was Tim's badass action hero line. He just stabbed one of the villains of the series and say You Didn't Get Me Alex. "You missed someone" It was just Tim throwing it back in Alex's face. If Alex had killed Tim ASAP, Alex may still be alive.

But, Tim says "you missed someone" right before TO shows up and Tim jumps on Alex in (Masky?) rage.(Maybe TO commanded him to do it IDK.)
Tim could have been talking to The Operator. "You missed this dead body, come get it."

Either way, there are way better reasons for him to say that than him trying to introduce a new character.

BUT since Tim is a little secretive, we can speculate like curious little ARGers and assume he is talking about someone else. This would have to be someone that Tim KNOWS FOR A FACT is alive AND that is important to the plot in a way that he must die before this can end. While speculating we can assume that while hiding things from Jay, he also hid the fact that someone was alive. So by these line of thinking, it can really only be one person and that is Seth. Setting up Seth's introduction as the 3rd TTA and making him the protagonist for whatever is left of the series, since the only reason to need Seth is if Tim is actually dead. BUT since all of this is ridiculous and unnecessary, I think we can just assume the much more reasonable explanation that Tim was JUST taunting Alex because he was pissed off.


Now as Alex is dying he says, and I quote:

"This isn't over, you've seen how it spreads. If there's someone left, you have to kill them, and then yourself."

Now. If we assume there IS someone left other than Tim, this could be interpreted as Alex saying. "Killing me hasn't changed anything, you need to go kill that person and then yourself"

BUT. Remember. These are probably Alex's LAST WORDS. He is going out with an explanation. He is saying, "You know why I did this. I had to kill everyone. Then I was going to kill myself. To save people from it."

This is more than likely just him trying to explain himself to Tim, and the audience. If we think he was really trying to help. And this he was going to sacrifice himself for this cause. It redeems him slightly in a twisted anti-hero sort of way.

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
And think about it from a (good) writer's point of view. Do you make your main bad guy go out with a shitty "let's extend the plot" line, which THAC do not seem intent on doing. Or do you try to humanize him, just a little. Add depth and motivation and make him make a little more sense. Because this is the last time you can add to his character (unless more tapes)


Finally, I'm pretty sure Masky is the one that finished Alex off. Tim stabbed him, and didn't seem to be in a rush to finish him off. Then TO shows up and Tim jumps on Alex like an animal. Then afterwards he sits up, there is distortion, then he starts coughing. Then he is leaving and crying/coughing and then he passes out from the strain of the Masky state.


Dacad wrote:
I've brought this up before, but totheark specifically told us "she's out there". Maybe it was Jessica, maybe Sarah, maybe Amy (I'd imagine Alex would, on some level, be bad at killing her). Alex said "if he's alive", but he might not have realized it was a she.


That isn't what Alex said. His exact words were:

"This isn't over, you've seen how it spreads. If there's someone left, you have to kill them, and then yourself."

He isn't specifying that anyone must die. He is explaining why he did what he did, and telling Tim that to end this, Tim has to kill himself.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:13 pm
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SignerJ
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Geneaux486 wrote:
evanx275h wrote:
...

We can nitpick what exactly Alex said in his last moments, but the fact remains that Alex indicated that at least one person is still alive, and that Tim will have to kill that person, then himself. "If (he/they're) still alive, you have to kill (him/them), then yourself." I still think Tim was referring to this mystery person in saying "You missed one", 'cause the whole one-liner, final taunt thing doesn't seem like something Tim would do as he murdered another human being, an act Tim was trying to avoid at all cost and that caused him to vomit shortly thereafter.


Actually, no, it doesn't necessarily mean that. Tim said, "You missed someone" as a witty one-liner. (This isn't a stretch at all, as the entire entry was full of meaningless babble and one-liners.) Alex said, roughly, "If someone is left, you have to kill them, and then kill yourself." Alex isn't saying that there definitely is someone left alive, he's just saying that if anyone is still alive, they have to be killed, to prevent the disease from spreading.

Zarggg wrote:
Geneaux486 wrote:
...

I swear to glob, if this is a setup for bringing back Seth, I'm going to be royally pissed.


How would you feel about Sarah?

Dacad wrote:
Finally, my thoughts on Tim, from a very wise person: No, not your fault. Look at me. Not your fault. It's not your fault to want to be human. To want to reach out to people. That's what you guys do. You're very social creatures, you're all about the togetherness and shit like that. You can't blame yourself for the fact that she was eaten by a monster.

If you can't trust the wisdom of the guy who said that, I don't know whose wisdom you can trust.


I think I'd trust Jayne Cobb with a pile of money (or, alternatively, Alex with my life) before I trust that guy.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:20 pm
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TheJoker
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Joined: 14 May 2013
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 		Guys, it's not just Alex. We ALL missed someone. There's one player here who was never taken or killed.

Think about it. Who was the very first character in the series to notice TO? Who was the first one to suspect there was something untrustworthy about TO? Who brought Alex's attention to TO to begin with?

It was with him that all this began. And now it shall end with him, when Tim finally puts him to sleep and ends this vicious cycle.

I don't think I need to say anything more. I'm sure you know to whom I refer.

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
If only because I make this same goddamn joke every two days or so...


PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:32 pm
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Incomplete
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Joined: 13 Jun 2013
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 		I think the ultimate irony is that Alex convinced himself that he was killing his friends to stop the spread of the Operator, when really who was the real threat? Alex was the only one to ever physically harm or kill anyone. We all assumed that the Operator was making him do it, but he believed he was fighting it. I guess that's how it uses you, it fools you into thinking you're doing something that you are not. It creates paranoia and fear and causes friends to hate and murder each other to harvest victims. While it itself has little control over the physical world. Pretty good stuff, and a bitterly satisfying ending.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:36 pm
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Marble Hornets
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Geneaux486 wrote:
Marble Hornets wrote:
Geneaux486 wrote:
Okay, so who did Alex miss? Watching it again, after Alex went through the list of people who had been exposed, Tim said "You missed one". Then Alex said "If he's still alive, you have to kill him, then yourself." So who could it be?


"you missed one" was obvious mockery towards Alex from Tim, he said it right before he attacked him.


Or it wasn't, which is just as likely.

Quote:
Alex says, "This isn't over. You see how it spreads. If there's someone left you have to kill them...and then yourself."


Well he does clearly say the words "still alive", not "someone else".



How is that just as likely? I implore you rewatch the entry, it's clear as day that he is mocking Alex. There is 0 reason that Tim would have said "well it looks like you missed one" otherwise. I get wanting to be a contrarian but in this case it's pretty much definitive why he says it.

You guys can be in denial all you want, but let's be rational. What are they going to do, have another person come and pick up the camera, upload it, and then go after the operator himself? There are no pills left for whoever is going to try that to withstand the operator's influence (Tim ate all the pills at the end of 86, that was the last of anyone's stash seeing as hoody was collecting from various places and tim took them off him) and if they just bring someone back to have them kill themselves that will be incredibly stupid and end with you all going "wait who uploaded this one then." - everyone is dead. don't assume seth is still alive because we didn't see him die - he might have just not been available to shoot when they wanted to/they didn't see him as a main character type.

Tim also pauses and gurgles (doesn't seem like his normal horrendous coughing up blood noises) and then inches his way to the stairs and keels over. We've never once seen Tim pass out from the operator like that after taking that many pills to supress the sickness. Also, he wouldn't have been so tired as to collapse on the floor, he had enough energy to kill alex and then get himself up and out of the room. Being shot in the leg and choked a little bit wouldn't have lost him enough blood to knock him unconcious. This is why I think Tim stabs himself in the gut or something, all the motions seem to be in place. Just my opinion tho


This is a muchmore suitable ending then Tim waking up, picking up the camera, and going home and giving a monologue about how everyone is dead and he has to move on with his life but he will never know if the operator is actually gone or not and then have the operator show up behind him in the last frame.

It follows typical horror movie endings like paranormal activity. You're not supposed to break it down and believe it can't be over if nobody is left to upload it. You're supposed to suspend your disbelief for a second and accept that they wanted a cool ending shot of everyone dead and nothing more.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:49 pm
Last edited by Marble Hornets on Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:00 pm; edited 4 times in total
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gennerx
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hachiman wrote:
I thought Skully was long forgotten. Who else would be wearing the skull mask apart from Seth?


The unnamed uploader from this entry maybe.
I think the whole point of that is that it wasn't uploaded by anyone we've seen. It's proof that there's "more then one source".

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:49 pm
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Marble Hornets
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gennerx wrote:
hachiman wrote:
I thought Skully was long forgotten. Who else would be wearing the skull mask apart from Seth?


The unnamed uploader from this entry maybe.
I think the whole point of that is that it wasn't uploaded by anyone we've seen. It's proof that there's "more then one source".


It also implies someone other that Tim had the password to the MH account which is just ludicrous.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:58 pm
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gennerx
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Marble Hornets wrote:
gennerx wrote:
hachiman wrote:
I thought Skully was long forgotten. Who else would be wearing the skull mask apart from Seth?


The unnamed uploader from this entry maybe.
I think the whole point of that is that it wasn't uploaded by anyone we've seen. It's proof that there's "more then one source".


It also implies someone other that Tim had the password to the MH account which is just ludicrous.


Could be Tim's next of kin but I don't think someone else hacking the account is really that ludicrous.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:02 pm
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Marble Hornets
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gennerx wrote:
Marble Hornets wrote:
gennerx wrote:
hachiman wrote:
I thought Skully was long forgotten. Who else would be wearing the skull mask apart from Seth?


The unnamed uploader from this entry maybe.
I think the whole point of that is that it wasn't uploaded by anyone we've seen. It's proof that there's "more then one source".


It also implies someone other that Tim had the password to the MH account which is just ludicrous.


Could be Tim's next of kin but I don't think someone else hacking the account is really that ludicrous.



It's very unlikely someone ever hacked the account. Brian didn't just gain master hacking abilities because he turned masky at some point. He most likely just stole Jay's user/pass after breaking into his house. Not hard to do since browsers have a "saved passwords" feature. Tim lives alone, didn't have any friends really, nobody would be looking for him. And even if they got the user/pass from his computer, nobody is going to know to trek to the college to find the camera and then follow the series' format with black background/white text to write "entry 86" before uploading it (who would even upload it instead of just giving it to police anyway?) - requires too many stars to align

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:04 pm
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Geneaux486
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Quote:
How is that just as likely? I implore you rewatch the entry, it's clear as day that he is mocking Alex. There is 0 reason that Tim would have said "well it looks like you missed one" otherwise.


I've rewatched the entry several times, and no, that isn't clear as day. Tim isn't going to stand there and mock the person he just murdered for no reason, then act all traumatized afterward, that's a contradiction that would only be seconds apart. Plus, as I've pointed out, Alex says "If he's still alive, you have to kill him", implying that there is, in fact, someone else out there, and he assumes Tim knows who "he" is because Tim just verified to Alex that he was aware of "him".

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:10 pm
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gennerx
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Marble Hornets wrote:
gennerx wrote:
Marble Hornets wrote:
gennerx wrote:
hachiman wrote:
I thought Skully was long forgotten. Who else would be wearing the skull mask apart from Seth?


The unnamed uploader from this entry maybe.
I think the whole point of that is that it wasn't uploaded by anyone we've seen. It's proof that there's "more then one source".


It also implies someone other that Tim had the password to the MH account which is just ludicrous.


Could be Tim's next of kin but I don't think someone else hacking the account is really that ludicrous.



Nobody ever hacked the account. Brian didn't just gain master hacking abilities because he turned masky at some point. He most likely just stole Jay's user/pass after breaking into his house. Tim lives alone, didn't have any friends really, nobody would be looking for him. And even if they got the user/pass from his computer, nobody is going to know to trek to the college to find the camera and then follow the series' format with black background/white text to write "entry 86" before uploading it (who would even upload it instead of just giving it to police anyway?) - requires too many stars to align


It's not certain how much communication TO has with the proxies.
Assuming he can pass any clear information the simplest explanation would be that TO was there during the struggle, so knew where the tape was and wanted it to be posted so he sent an unknown proxie for it.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:12 pm
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Geneaux486
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gennerx wrote:
It's not certain how much communication TO has with the proxies.
Assuming he can pass any clear information the simplest explanation would be that TO was there during the struggle, so knew where the tape was and wanted it to be posted so he sent an unknown proxie for it.


I don't think he ever gives anyone direct orders. In all cases where we've been able to observe the subject being indoctrinated, it's more like their basic thought processes are altered, causing them to react differently to situations than they normally would. I doubt the Operator gives anyone direct orders or is even capable of communicating with people at all.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:17 pm
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gennerx
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Geneaux486 wrote:
gennerx wrote:
It's not certain how much communication TO has with the proxies.
Assuming he can pass any clear information the simplest explanation would be that TO was there during the struggle, so knew where the tape was and wanted it to be posted so he sent an unknown proxie for it.


I don't think he ever gives anyone direct orders. In all cases where we've been able to observe the subject being indoctrinated, it's more like their basic thought processes are altered, causing them to react differently to situations than they normally would. I doubt the Operator gives anyone direct orders or is even capable of communicating with people at all.


No I agree that he doesn't give orders but he seems to manipulate others to get what he wants. The uploader may think he's doing the right thing just like Alex did. The only doubt I have about my theory is how much actual information he can give people.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:24 pm
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Cyan507
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 		Before people go to town with the belief that someone other than Tim uploaded this, consider the following:

Tim could have been in a rush to upload this, or he may been tired from his ordeal, thus being why the tweet was unsigned as well as the video description.

There's very little to suggest in the video that someone else appeared after Tim collapsed near the stairs, because we neither saw nor heard any third party after the knife dropped. It's entirely possible that if a third party did in fact upload this and edited out their appearance, but in the MH universe how likely is that?

Chances are if someone was to pick up the camera and upload the contents, we would have seen something similar to Entry #41. What I firmly think is that #86 was the first half like #83 and that #86 will continue the events from Tim's perspective.

There's also a third possibility that Tim went Masky after losing consciousness and uploaded it in that state. He's hasn't appeared in a long time and Tim is now completely deprived of medicine.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:25 pm
Last edited by Cyan507 on Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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