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Poll

Did Tim Kill Jessica?

Yes
32%
 32%  [ 21 ]
No
67%
 67%  [ 43 ]

Total Votes : 64
 

 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
Did Tim kill Jessica?
Moderators: Giskard, JKatkina, Zarggg
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Geneaux486
I Have No Life


Joined: 17 Mar 2011
Posts: 2423

 		To borrow a quote from Wilfred, "Some people can't handle Vegas. You can." Tim's gotten strong enough to deal with his issues, he'd be able to encounter the Operator without killing someone. The argument that he killed Alex doesn't hold any water because he was planning to do that even in his right mind, in self defense because otherwise Alex was just going to keep trying to kill him. Now you could argue that he did it more violently because the Operator was there, but the Operator was not the reason he did it in the first place.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:15 pm
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Blackout_2014
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Joined: 22 Jun 2014
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Geneaux486 wrote:
To borrow a quote from Wilfred, "Some people can't handle Vegas. You can." Tim's gotten strong enough to deal with his issues, he'd be able to encounter the Operator without killing someone. The argument that he killed Alex doesn't hold any water because he was planning to do that even in his right mind, in self defense because otherwise Alex was just going to keep trying to kill him. Now you could argue that he did it more violently because the Operator was there, but the Operator was not the reason he did it in the first place.


Yeah I would have to go with this point. Plus Tim is the only person to resist the operator on camera. The series explained that much at least...

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:03 pm
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Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
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Quote:
How do you guys that are voting yes even imagine that he did it?


Suffocation, most likely. Tim is probably significantly stronger than Jessica. Plus, The Operator was surely there.

Quote:
Yeah I would have to go with this point. Plus Tim is the only person to resist the operator on camera. The series explained that much at least...


It contradicted it in Entry 86. Also, Alex was incapacitated. He could have easily called the cops. He doesn't need to explain The Operator to anyone, because he was clearly in a huge fight.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:35 pm
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Blackout_2014
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Quote:
It contradicted it in Entry 86. Also, Alex was incapacitated. He could have easily called the cops. He doesn't need to explain The Operator to anyone, because he was clearly in a huge fight.


Its a possibility. And there has been definite contradictions in behaviors before. Tim standing firm against the operator was such a big deal though. I feel like with a bottle full of pills he resisted the operator.

Furthermore, he was perfectly capable of killing Hoody without operator influence. At that point I think Tim was in full on kill mode against Alex and had enough. I don't think it was the operator. Plus the operator's motives and influence are sketchy at best. [/quote]

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:47 pm
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Geneaux486
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Joined: 17 Mar 2011
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Lithp wrote:
It contradicted it in Entry 86. Also, Alex was incapacitated. He could have easily called the cops. He doesn't need to explain The Operator to anyone, because he was clearly in a huge fight.


Alex gets teleported, getting him sent to jail wouldn't have done anything. Tim's plan was to take down Alex, the Operator had nothing to do with that. At most it could be argued that Tim did it so angrily because the Operator was there, but the act itself was motivated not by the creature, but by the fact that Alex had made it clear that he was never going to relent.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:22 pm
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Lithp
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Joined: 04 Mar 2012
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Geneaux486 wrote:
Lithp wrote:
It contradicted it in Entry 86. Also, Alex was incapacitated. He could have easily called the cops. He doesn't need to explain The Operator to anyone, because he was clearly in a huge fight.


Alex gets teleported, getting him sent to jail wouldn't have done anything. Tim's plan was to take down Alex, the Operator had nothing to do with that. At most it could be argued that Tim did it so angrily because the Operator was there, but the act itself was motivated not by the creature, but by the fact that Alex had made it clear that he was never going to relent.


That is not "the most I can argue," because the theory that Tim planned to kill Alex is at least as shoddy. We don't see him even go for it until The Operator shows up. We do see The Operator blatantly defying Tim's claim that he can ward it off. The logic doesn't even make sense. "You're wrong that the only way to fix this is by killing people, so I'm going to kill you." Plus, by that logic, trying to kill Alex is fruitless because The Operator could just teleport him away. Thus, Tim's plan couldn't have been anything, because there is nothing that The Operator couldn't conceivably prevent.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:54 pm
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Blackout_2014
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Joined: 22 Jun 2014
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Lithp wrote:
Geneaux486 wrote:
Lithp wrote:
It contradicted it in Entry 86. Also, Alex was incapacitated. He could have easily called the cops. He doesn't need to explain The Operator to anyone, because he was clearly in a huge fight.


Alex gets teleported, getting him sent to jail wouldn't have done anything. Tim's plan was to take down Alex, the Operator had nothing to do with that. At most it could be argued that Tim did it so angrily because the Operator was there, but the act itself was motivated not by the creature, but by the fact that Alex had made it clear that he was never going to relent.


That is not "the most I can argue," because the theory that Tim planned to kill Alex is at least as shoddy. We don't see him even go for it until The Operator shows up. We do see The Operator blatantly defying Tim's claim that he can ward it off. The logic doesn't even make sense. "You're wrong that the only way to fix this is by killing people, so I'm going to kill you." Plus, by that logic, trying to kill Alex is fruitless because The Operator could just teleport him away. Thus, Tim's plan couldn't have been anything, because there is nothing that The Operator couldn't conceivably prevent.


Just curious. What do you think Tim's plan was pre-operator influence?

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:25 pm
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Lithp
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Joined: 04 Mar 2012
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 		At this point, I'd be surprised if there even was one. I would have said that it was to kill Alex, but then they blatantly implied that The Operator forced him to do it, which makes no sense if that's what he was going to do all along.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:28 pm
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Blackout_2014
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Lithp wrote:
At this point, I'd be surprised if there even was one. I would have said that it was to kill Alex, but then they blatantly implied that The Operator forced him to do it, which makes no sense if that's what he was going to do all along.


I think his plan was to kill Alex. After what happened with Jay, I don't know what else he would have been planning. You could say that he wanted to help Alex, but I think that was just talk to lure him out.

After Alex killed Jay and showed him Brian's dead body while taunting him I think Tim was pushed way over the edge. He knew it was killed or be killed. You can say the operator intensified that, but I don't think the operator was his sole motivation.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:40 pm
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Xman
Decorated


Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 280

 		I'm gonna go with no, I guess. I'm not 100% confident with that answer, but I think Tim is more of a fighter, and wouldn't follow in Alex's footsteps so easily.

I still don't get why they had to make us question the fate of Jessica like that. Just seems unnecessary to me.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:46 pm
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TomCat
Boot


Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Posts: 40
Location: USA
Geneaux486 wrote:
Teedub wrote:
I've tried my best to hear the sirens that people have been claiming are in the background, but I just can't hear it. I hear some little noise, but it doesn't sound like sirens to me


They're definitely there.

"Definitely" is a strong word to use for anything in Marble Hornets. Especially when there's much debate between viewers about the topic, such as we have here.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:00 am
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Geneaux486
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Joined: 17 Mar 2011
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Lithp wrote:
That is not "the most I can argue,"


Yes it is. See my earlier point about Tim's plan to finish things with Alex.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:34 am
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Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
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Geneaux486 wrote:
Lithp wrote:
That is not "the most I can argue,"


Yes it is. See my earlier point about Tim's plan to finish things with Alex.


Okay, you had to have deliberately ignored everything that I said after that. Many, many holes with your argument. Why even have The Operator show up at that moment if he's unimportant? "Oh he made Tim do it more violently." What the fuck? That's not what common sense would get out of that scene after they made it clear--as much so as anything ever is in this series--that The Operator can change people's thoughts on a dime. When Alex kills people, it doesn't typically appear until after he's done the deed, but for some reason, he shows up to Tim to "make him a little bit more violent"? ...Why? That doesn't make any goddamn sense. Why would you have a villain with established mind control powers show up during the scene of murder to make the person do something that they were already going to do, but "a little more violent," & in what Bizarro Universe is it invalid to conclude that the villain with ESTABLISHED MIND CONTROL POWERS was fucking CONTROLLING HIS MIND?

And there's absolutely no proof that Tim was going for the kill independent of The Operator. Even if it was his plan at some point, thinking about murder=/=attempting it. I don't know why you want to ignore this shit, whether you want to believe that the writing was clearer than mud or if you're just extremely committed to your theory, but I'm not accepting your bullshit claim that you've proven this wrong when you haven't.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:28 am
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Blackout_2014
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Joined: 22 Jun 2014
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Quote:
Okay, you had to have deliberately ignored everything that I said after that. Many, many holes with your argument. Why even have The Operator show up at that moment if he's unimportant? "Oh he made Tim do it more violently." What the fuck? That's not what common sense would get out of that scene after they made it clear--as much so as anything ever is in this series--that The Operator can change people's thoughts on a dime. When Alex kills people, it doesn't typically appear until after he's done the deed, but for some reason, he shows up to Tim to "make him a little bit more violent"? ...Why? That doesn't make any goddamn sense. Why would you have a villain with established mind control powers show up during the scene of murder to make the person do something that they were already going to do, but "a little more violent," & in what Bizarro Universe is it invalid to conclude that the villain with ESTABLISHED MIND CONTROL POWERS was fucking CONTROLLING HIS MIND?

And there's absolutely no proof that Tim was going for the kill independent of The Operator. Even if it was his plan at some point, thinking about murder=/=attempting it. I don't know why you want to ignore this shit, whether you want to believe that the writing was clearer than mud or if you're just extremely committed to your theory, but I'm not accepting your bullshit claim that you've proven this wrong when you haven't.


Not to be a jerk, but with so much ambiguity there is very little that i feel is established as a fact. I think it you started a thread and tried to establish what is fact you would still end up with a ton a valid arguments against it because very little has been out and out confirmed.

Most of us are just riding on our own interpretations and that doesn't always make for great conversation.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:21 am
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Geneaux486
I Have No Life


Joined: 17 Mar 2011
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Quote:
Why even have The Operator show up at that moment if he's unimportant?


He wasn't unimportant. He just isn't the reason Tim killed Alex.

Quote:
that The Operator can change people's thoughts on a dime.


He didn't change Tim's thoughts. The plan was always to have that showdown with Alex. It's the entire reason Tim waited for Alex in his home, and the reason he went back to Benedict Hall.

Quote:
Why would you have a villain with established mind control powers show up during the scene of murder to make the person do something that they were already going to do, but "a little more violent,"


Because, as Tim said, it feeds off of that stuff. Tim did what he had to do, even though it required appeasing the Operator.

Quote:
And there's absolutely no proof that Tim was going for the kill independent of The Operator.


He went to confront the guy that burned down his house and wanted him dead, and he brought a knife. To me, that's a pretty clear indication of his intent.

Quote:
but I'm not accepting your bullshit claim that you've proven this wrong when you haven't.


I don't know what to tell you. I can't really prove anything since these events were left ambiguous, but I do believe that the established canon supports my theory.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:34 am
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