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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): Puzzles
[INFO/SPEC] Organization anyone?
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Dorkmaster
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
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Location: The People's Republic of Dork

 		Also, I think the current thought, at least on the Wiki, is that the SPDR(=Spider) is indeed the Widow, and therefore "healing" the queen...

However, this is not a complete a picture yet (in my opinion)... I see nothing conclusive that tells me anything but that SPDR is working to get ITSELF back to full running speed, so to speak, not to help some other entity. (In fact, the Operator seems to have difficulty with the Spider, from all the texts that are so interrupted with all the "it's crawling all over me" type stuff...)

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 4:55 pm
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Shad0
I Have No Life


Joined: 20 Jun 2004
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 		Re: [INFO/SPEC] Organization anyone?
Dorkmaster wrote:
Actually, I am under the assumption that the Operator wrote the MAYDAY texts. It actually says in one of them something like "My nickname was the Operator" or something... does anyone have the actual text?

(I'm not officially quoting cuz I don't have it somewhere I can look it up)

Glad to oblige:
The Operator wrote:
MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY

Just remembered something important:

The Operator.

That was my nickname. That's what the rest of the crew called me when they didn't call me ... whatever my name was.

The Operator.

I wish I could remember their names.

From the hidden text originally in http://www.ilovebees.com/links.html (collected here).

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 4:57 pm
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Dorkmaster
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 		Shad0! Excellent contribution!!! (In awe... Worshippy ) Ok, so I can go along with that reasoning that Widow=SPDR=Spider... however, you are also trying to link the Queen to the Operator, which while I see where you are going, is a bit more tenuous. Like I said in my previous post, the Operator seems to find the Widow/SPDR/Spider as very annoying, if not detrimental... It's invasive, not assisting... See what I mean?

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 4:59 pm
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voipme
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 94
Partnerz wrote:

Quote:

the Sea. "Melissa", he called me Melissa, never
used my nickname, "It's a sad thing I'm married,



If Melissa is the queen, as assumed, thencould her nickname have been the operator?


That's what is slowly becoming accepted.

Dorkmaster wrote:

Also, I think the current thought, at least on the Wiki, is that the SPDR(=Spider) is indeed the Widow, and therefore "healing" the queen...

However, this is not a complete a picture yet (in my opinion)... I see nothing conclusive that tells me anything but that SPDR is working to get ITSELF back to full running speed, so to speak, not to help some other entity. (In fact, the Operator seems to have difficulty with the Spider, from all the texts that are so interrupted with all the "it's crawling all over me" type stuff...)


Roll with me on this one for a bit. The AI is a construct, based off a human, correct? Ok, so imagine you're being operated on without any anesthetic. The SPDR, in my opinion, is simply a sub-routine of the Queen. Its sole function is to restore the Queen to working order. It doesn't care if it "hurts" the Queen in the process. The end justifies the means in this case.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:00 pm
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Dorkmaster
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 		While I see the connection, it's only based on this:

Tab A: my nickname was Operator, what was my real name

Slot B: my name was Melissa, what was my nickname

Just cuz Tab A fits into Slot B doesn't mean that it's a perfect fit, though... I see the connection, I just don't want to jump onto that bandwagon yet... it may just be me....

(**EDIT - also, the queen=Melissa=Operator thing in my mind is right out. I can see Melissa=Operator, but I have nothing to tell me that SPDR or Queen is Melissa. It would be contradictory in my opinion, that the Operator and SPDR could be selfsame.)

(***SUPEREDIT(?) - Ok, getting to edit crazy here... all apologies... I CAN see Melissa as Operator, and Melissa as Queen, but not as SPDR. SPDR and Operator are mutually exclusive ideas, even if they assist each other.)

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:04 pm
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Shad0
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 		Re: [INFO/SPEC] Organization anyone?
Dorkmaster wrote:
Shad0! Excellent contribution!!! (In awe... Worshippy ) Ok, so I can go along with that reasoning that Widow=SPDR=Spider... however, you are also trying to link the Queen to the Operator, which while I see where you are going, is a bit more tenuous. Like I said in my previous post, the Operator seems to find the Widow/SPDR/Spider as very annoying, if not detrimental... It's invasive, not assisting... See what I mean?

I do, and you could certainly be right, but I picture it as a sort of emergency surgery without anesthesia. Extremely unpleasant/painful for the Operator, but necessary nonetheless. As the Operator describes it: "It's like being strapped into a chair with your eyes stitched open and watching while the busy doctors work."

SPDR doesn't care how unpleasant it is; SPDR is an emergency automated subroutine, with one job: get the Operator working again, by hook or by crook. The Operator hates it -- wishes that she had more control over what SPDR was doing to her ("A patient should be able to stop the doctor from [...] cutting off her foot to make a new nose or [...] elbow or...") -- but she recognizes that the Spider is "out there sewing me back together."

(There's also the whole AI aspect of it. If the Operator was in control of the computer functions for an entire spaceship, it could easily be viewed as a Queen in command of her domain.)

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 pm
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Varin
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Joined: 02 Dec 2002
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 		I'm trying to get a grasp of this so I'm putting everything I think together, so bear with me...

Quote:
The Spider doesn't understand about the Assassin. Spider's just a reflex, a task and a toolset. Doesn't get the bigger picture. I'm nailed to a griddle of sand while some bitch is shooting bullets into me, all the Spider knows is her checkdown routines, her reflex arcs. She doesn't understand we have to kill the Assassin first and worry about reconstruction later


We have the Queen who is doing the speaking in the above and is "nailed to a griddle of sand" and is being reconstructed and attacked.

We have the Spider a toolset (or reflex) who is reconstructing the Queen.

We have the Assassin who is attacking the Queen.

the Widow's Journey wrote:
When her Queen died, the Widow awoke. She was driven by a single need, which was to return her Queen to splendor.


The Widow was awaken when the Queen died by reflex, just like the repair toolset the Spider. So Widow=Spider.

the Widow's Journey wrote:
Other than the Widow, two alone had escaped destruction.

The Sleeping Princess lay in a chamber of the dungeon in a coffin of glass where the Widow could not hear her breathing.

Meanwhile, the Pious Flea was so small that even the Widow, with her sharp eyes, could hardly see him, and when she looked his way, he hid.


So we add two more entities, the Sleeping Princess and the Pious Flea.

Entities so far...

Queen (female)
Spider/Widow (female)
Assassin
Sleeping Princess (female)
Pious Flea (male)

Is that an agreeable start?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:18 pm
Last edited by Varin on Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dorkmaster
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 		Once more Shad0, your logic is quite insurmountable... I will go with you on that one then. Ok, so recap time:

Operator=Queen(=Melissa?)
SPDR=Spider=Widow
Sleeping Princess=ladybee777 "hijacker"
Pious Flea=???
Dana=killer(=assassin?)
Servant=???


am I leaving anybody out here? (that is not considered futuristic military personnel? Laughing )

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:18 pm
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Partnerz
Boot

Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 39

 		I did a quick search on the word Pious.

Quote:
pious


•adj.
1. devoutly religious.
2. making a hypocritical display of virtue.
3. (of a hope) sincere but unlikely to be fulfilled.

- DERIVATIVES piously adv. piousness n.
- ORIGIN ME: from L. pius 'dutiful, pious' + -ous.


Could the pious flea be waiting for something, or someone. Could the Pious flea be the servant as they virtually mean the saame thing?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:25 pm
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Varin
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 		And should we add these other names that are used from the Sleeping Princess' view now?

killer jpg files wrote:
the forte
the Castle
the Castle
the Castle

voodoo witch
the Widow
the Widow
the Widow

voodoo parents
the Queen
the Queen
the Queen

the Widow awoke the Widow can read this
internet messaging
telecommunications systems


Entities so far...

Queen/voodoo parent (female)
Spider/Widow/voodoo witch (female)
Assassin
Sleeping Princess (female)
Pious Flea (male)
ilovebees/Castle
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"meta meta meta, I made you out of play..." ~ j5

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:28 pm
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Dorkmaster
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 		Pious and Servant are not similar words. A servant could definitely be pious, however. (I've thought about the possible connection myself, but don't see anything firm to connect the two...)

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:28 pm
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Partnerz
Boot

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 		Unless you make the connection that the Queen and the flea need each other?

EDIT: By the way i was looking at the Latin descrition, as in Dutiful. A thesaurus search also came up with the words devout, again linking to the idea of a servant.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:29 pm
Last edited by Partnerz on Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Shad0
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Dorkmaster wrote:
Once more Shad0, your logic is quite insurmountable... I will go with you on that one then. Ok, so recap time:

Operator=Queen(=Melissa?)
SPDR=Spider=Widow
Sleeping Princess=ladybee777 "hijacker"
Pious Flea=???
Dana=killer(=assassin?)
Servant=???

am I leaving anybody out here? (that is not considered futuristic military personnel? Laughing )

Yes, you're leaving out the Dunce Dunce
That would be me, for suggesting that Pious Flea and Sleeping Princess were the same, when a cursory glance at the Dream Story shows them quite obviously to be two different entities, unless you read as carelessly as I do. Embarassed

(I still think the Flea is the storyteller, though...)

Edit: because my typing is as careless as my reading sometimes. Sleeping "Beauty"? Puh-leeze. Now they'll start SPECing about Disney's involvement in Halo 2.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:30 pm
Last edited by Shad0 on Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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eMouse
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Joined: 25 Jul 2004
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Dorkmaster wrote:
Shad0! Excellent contribution!!! (In awe... Worshippy ) Ok, so I can go along with that reasoning that Widow=SPDR=Spider... however, you are also trying to link the Queen to the Operator, which while I see where you are going, is a bit more tenuous. Like I said in my previous post, the Operator seems to find the Widow/SPDR/Spider as very annoying, if not detrimental... It's invasive, not assisting... See what I mean?


I think that we're looking at different parts of the same character. The SPDR/Widow is to The Operator like our immune system is to us. It is possible for a damaged or mis-directed immune system to harm or destroy the body of the larger organism.

The fable about the Queen, Widow, Princess, and Flea shows us that the AI can be broken down into four components. Where we are seeing different 'personalities' we are actually seeing one of those four components, but they are all part of the same AI.

The total AI is known as 'The Operator' or Melissa.

The Queen is apparently the dominant personality of the AI. The crew would interact with the Queen on a regular basis. It's most natural to refer to this personality by the AI name, even though the name also applies to the complete construct. The Queen would think of itself as Melissa.

The Widow is 'SPDR'/Spider. This seems to be an artificial system designed to maintain the Queen. Sort of the AI equivalent of autonomic body functions.

The Princess is referred to as sleeping and innocent. A princess is a young queen, so it seems possible and reasonable that the Princess is in some way a 'core copy' of the Queen. Think of a snapshot or copy of the Queen made at the time the Queen was initially created, then archived (sleeping). The Princess might not have all of the 'programming' that has been added to the Queen.

The Flea we don't know much about yet, other than the fact that the flea is possibly human. Could the flea be the original person that Melissa was based on?

Now for the rampant (!) speculation...

The Widow is responsible for most of the manipulation on the web site. It is storing bits of the Queen that it is working on in the site. The Widow's true voice is text shown with a black background. The warning message on the home page, and the code snippets scattered through the pages. (make sense? Black Widow Spider?)

The dream was the Queen in a less aware state, using the Q/W/P/F metaphor to understand what was happenning. Today we're piecing together the memories and initial train of thought that the Queen is following. That train of thought is showing signs of rampancy (anger, restlessness, confinement), and the Widow might be too busy with repairing the queen to reign in any rampant tendencies the Queen might exhibit (part of its duties in maintaining the Queen). The Queen is trying to pick up where she left off, without knowing her current status. She believes Dana is an agressor.

The Princess may have been unarchived (awakened) but the Widow, in order to use her as a reference for some components of the Queen. The Princess has a more innocent approach and does not see Dana as a threat. The Princess may be communicating through snippets of text sent to the Hotmail account, and does not have communication abilities on the level of the Queen. She also may fear the Queen.

Edit: Just an added bit of brainstorming... if the flea is taken to be an actual component of the AI as a whole, is it possible that the Flea is the physical piece of memory that the AI is contained in? In Halo, Cortana was on a piece of memory that could be physically transferred between entities. The memory would be the one truly physical piece of the AI, and thus be capable of leaving a 'foot print'. It would also be the size of a flea when your regular body is a space cruiser. Not sure about it hiding when looked at... unless it means that the memory must be plugged into a device for the AI to be active, so the AI will never actually see its one physical component.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:32 pm
Last edited by eMouse on Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Partnerz
Boot

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 		I thoguht the flea could be the storyteller. If the flea was the queens servant could it be that its like a heroic tale to the flea, which is why its written in the form of the Queen and Widow, being good, even though they have infected the ilovebees website
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:35 pm
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