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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): General/Updates
[SPEC (Wild or otherwise) ;)] HALOVERSE & ILB
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GunsmithCat
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devolver wrote:
This is slight OT ( Confused , but the question came to me while reading this thread, so here it goes: why is there an alliance between the Prophets and the Elites? Other posts have touched on this, as does the Halo library, but it doesn't seem to be explained anywhere.

I understand that the Prophets need the Elites for muscle, but why do the Elites need the Prophets? (I guess I'm assuming that, like the other "members" of the Covenant, they are different species from different planets.) Did the Elites just happen to worship the Forerunners as well, so they made an alliance with the Prophets simply because the Prophets seem to know a lot about the Forerunners? This seems a bit coincidental, since--I could be wrong here--but it's implied that the rest of the Covenant forces (with the possible exception of Brutes) are not exactly willing members. And, hence, may not care at all about the Forerunners. (After all, only the Elites have forerunner symbols on their armor.)

This is not phrased very well, but I was hoping someone could shed some light on this for me. And apologies in advance if I'm missing something obvious, but it's been a long day and brain no work well.


The impression I get is that the Elites don't concern themselves with the religious matters and the Prophets don't worry about the military matters but that the two form a unified front. So what you're fighting in Halo isn't just a religious zealot or a well-trained soldier but both (except for maybe the Grunts Wink ).

The relationship is probably more important when they adopt new and powerful cultures, like the Hunters. A purely military organization could probably be overthrown by the Hunters internally, but with a well-oiled religion behind them, they stand a better chance at assimilated cultures.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 6:54 pm
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princeofthesword
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 		The Hunters weren't happy about joining the Covenant, if I remember correctly. Seems that, like in humanity's case, they could hold the ground easily, but the superior Covenant airpower forced the play. Mentioned somewhere in "The Flood." Just a tidbit of info, I know GC knows it but it might not have been clear to other folks. As GC said, far as we can tell, the only known "willing" members of the Covenant are the Elites and the Brutes, with the Prophets pulling the strings. Or so it all seems.

Man, down at the Underground forum Frankie of Bungie employment wrote up a great "beastiary" about the Covenant, and it answered a lot of questions while raising many more. I can't seem to find it, I'll post back if I can find the link. I seem to remember *don't quote me on this though, it's vague memory* that the alliance with the Elites and the Prophets was very tenuous, and blah blah...need to find the link. I'll check back in later with it if I can find it. Farewell.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:14 pm
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chaotic_mind
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Actually I don't if this is what you want. But it comes pretty close, eh?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:26 pm
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devolver
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chaotic_mind wrote:
All your base are belong to me. Make your time.


Ah, you totally set me up the bomb. Thanks for the help GSC, Prince, and Chaotic. That link was helpful. It said this, which seems to answer my question:

Quote:
Elites coexist with Prophets uneasily. They need access to the Forerunner technology parsed and reverse engineered by the Prophets, and certainly demonstrably share some religious beliefs.


So there's one reason the elites need the prophets.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:31 am
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princeofthesword
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 		Aha!! Thanks a lot Chaotic Mind, I hadn't a clue where to find the bloody thing, other than it was in the lair that is Bungie.net. Great work, 'twas exactly the one we were looking for.

So yeah, hopes that link helps everyone, and good luck compiling things in your head Devolver. I've been following Halo stuff since the game first game out, and it's an elusive, ongoing process. First Strike did mention that the Brutes are even more deadly than Hunters, for one.

This next part is a long, LONG timeline of the Halo plot given from the books. Why? Who knows, might help. Here be LOTS OF SPOILERS, its purpose is to be a timeline of the events in the Haloverse for those wanting a concise plotline to bounce ILB stuff off of. There's a good timeline at the Library, but I'm wanting to give some folks a background on the "timewarp" thing, and show how it happened as clearly as possible. Working through a haze of pain and medicine here, so bear with me...

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
- August 30th, 2552. Reach. The Chief splits his Spartan team: his goes to destroy an unpurged nav database aboard a yacht at a docking bay, while the other goes groundside on Reach to protect the Super MAC guns' generators from Covenant ground forces.

- August 30th. MC's team succeeds in destroying nav database, Pillar of Autumn jumps from Reach system to coordinates chosen by Cortana based on a Forerunner artifact found at Cote d'Azur. Reach team suffers heavy casualties, MAC generators damaged and Covenant proceed to glass the planet, starting at the poles. The plasma bombardment is halted suspiciously, preserving the mountain that houses the UNSC ONI CASTLE complex. Reach team falls back to that location.

Reach Spartan team encounters Dr. Halsey, left in charge of destroying CASTLE base should it fall into the hands of the enemy. After repairs and recon, the Dr. learns of the true size of CASTLE base, its abandoned titanium mine shafts, and more...anomalies, buried deeper within the mountain. (note: even in ONI Section III, the Dr. did not know of the full size of CASTLE base, nor of what seemed to be a search for something deeper within the mountain, led by Ackerson's forces perhaps?) The Covenant, however, begin to attack CASTLE and infiltrate, forcing the Dr. to blow the base and the mountain on top of them while she and Spartans move deeper into these newly discovered tunnels.

-September 4th. Lt. Wagner, ONI, makes a report about the fall of Reach to UNSC High Command in Sydney, Australia. Earth. Among the typical talk about Reach, there is mention of a secret project ran by Ackerson, threats about dealing with ONI for repeatedly making direct jumps to Earth despite the Cole Protocol (look at the date). Apparently the info about Reach is deemed more important to Hi-Com than the breach in Protocol. Earth assumes everyone on Reach is dead.

-September 7th. Reach team, following what are presumably Forerunner passageways illuminated by strange symbols and eerily realistic holograms of terrestrial and space scapes, move deeper into the mountain. Eventually arriving at an enormous cavern, they find at its bottom a crystal that warps space and time, supposedly. However, the Covenant finally get a fix on their position and burn through the mountain, using a grav lift to send troops into the cavern. The team retreats into a small alcove, closing it off with explosives, yet find that they have locked themselves in. (Note that they have been on the run for a week, now, with limited food and water. Now they are trapped, with the Covenant filling the cavern with troops. Look at the date)

-September 19th. The Pillar of Autumn comes out of Slipspace in the Threshold system, having been pursued and preceeded by many Covenant vessels. Crashing on Halo, the ensuing battle rages between the Covenant, humans, and eventually the Flood.

-September 22nd. Halo is destroyed, and the Chief, along with a recovered cryotube containing a Spartan presumed dead at the Reach mission, an ONI officer Lt. Haverson, ODST Corporal Locklear, Pelican pilot Polaski, and Sergeant Johnson, commandeer a Covenant flagship out of the newly arrived Covenant ships in the Threshold system. Battle ensues, and the victorious Ascendent Justice jumps into Slipspace towards Reach. However, due to her analysis of the Covenant's more precise slipspace technology, Cortana somehow misjudges the amount of time it will take to arrive at Reach. She said at first "22 hours ETA," then it was "13," then it was still a bit earlier than that. Hmm.

-September 23rd The Chief on the Ascendent Justice arrive back at Reach. However, the timelog now reads TIME:DATE ERROR/ and proceeds from there in the standard UNSC format. September 23rd, and the orbit around Reach is crawling with Covenant ships. Using their temporary cover of the flagship, they make an approach, only to have a Covenant AI aboard the Ascendent Justice broadcast a warning to the Covenant fleet. Cortana immediately destroys the AI, but the damage is done. Meanwhile, a daring rescue attempt is made, and the Chief's Covenant dropship picks up Vice Admiral Whitcomb and Spartans from the Reach team who were left topside, hiding in embankments near CASTLE. They decide that whatever the Covenant want from CASTLE is worth keeping them from getting. It should be noted that Cortana decrypts information from the Covenant transmissions and discovers that they are amassing an armada to descend upon Earth at this time.

Flying the dropship down the hole the Covenant punched in the mountain to the enormous cavern, the Admiral, Master Chief, and his Spartans interrupt the Covenant's attempt to dig out the Dr. and her team from the explosive-induced cave-in. Having rescued the Dr. and her team (and discovering that the Covenant won't fire upon them because it might damage the "holy light" crystal), the risky escape is made in the dropship, and we see that the crystal affects gravity lifts in strange ways. Note that the UNSC timelog now reads TIME:DATE RECORD ANOMALY, September 23rd. Dropship barely manages to rendezvous with Cortana on the Ascendent Justice/Gettysburg hybrid, and they jump into slipspace.

-Time unknown. The crystal changes shape and warps the time and space around the ship. A risky space battle ensues, victory barely achieved, and the ship slides out of slipspace with anomalies detected in both time and reentry vectors.

-September 12th Seeking help from pirates in an asteroid belt in the Eridanus system, pursued by the Covenant. *COUGHlookatthedateCOUGHS*

-September 13th. Dr. Halsey incapacitates the Spartan named Kelly and departs on an unknown mission using an archaic ONI ship she "borrows" from the pirates. She relinquished the crystal to Locklear, who decided it was better off destroyed. He lost his life in the explosion used to destroy the crystal. However, the Ascendent Justice/Gettysburg jumped into slipspace as the crystal was destroyed, and a part of the crystal vanished to parts unknown, while the rest was shattered. Supposedly, the asteroid colony of pirates was destroyed by the pursuing Covenant, a loss deemed sadly acceptable considering the circumstances.

Now en route to Earth with the warning of impending attack and the information Cortana has on Halo and the Flood. The Master Chief decides to destroy the docking and controls platform, the Unyielding Hierophant, that the Covenant armada is gathering around before their jump to Earth. His team of Spartans use a Covenant dropship, fall out of slipspace, and infiltrate the station. Estimates 500+ massive Covenant warships are prepared to attack Earth.

Mission is successful, and with station set to detonate, Admiral Whitcomb and Lt. Haverson arrive in the Ascendent Justice, while the Chief and his team is picked up by the now separated Gettysburg. The Admiral, at the cost of his life, tricks the armada into flying close enough to be enveloped in the massive explosion of the Unyielding Hierophant. All but a handful of the Armada is obliterated, yet in the epilogue we find that the High Prophet of the Covenant is unconcerned by this.


Points of interest: After leaving Reach with the Crystal, and coming out of slipstream space, the Chief and everyone are now in a time before the destruction of Halo. One of my posts above has a link talking about this timeline and its possible implications, over at H.B.O.

However, Cortana learns on the 23rd that the Covenant know the location of Earth. (How'd they learn?) Strangely though, the Master Chief arrives at the armada on the 13th, thanks to the timewarp, and the Chief is somewhat shocked about how prepared the armada is. He seems to think they could deploy at any moment. Questions, quandries.

I'd like to know when the ILB events fit in the Halo timeline. There's a big gap between First Strike and Halo 2. Maybe we can figure out when Troy was glassed, and that might help our understanding of the story.

I did read that an Admiral at Hi-Com said that he'd seen the Covenant glass planets "a thousand times." Don't know if he was just exaggerating, or if he was serious. Lots of questions, hope some of this helps guide minds to answers. If you feel the need to flame me for such a long post, please set me to a low simmer, otherwise I jump out and bite before I get cooked thoroughly. Otherwise, read and spec away. Reading never killed anyone, except students. Uh...anyway, good luck, and hope this clears up some things for some folks. Farewell.

To err is human; to forgive, Divine. Neither of these are acceptable policies of the Marine Corps.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 5:32 am
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GunsmithCat
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 		It's been hard to pin down where this falls in the Haloverse timeline. It's hard to tell if Troy is an outer or inner colony, which would help. I really wanted to try and attach it to the SPARTAN programs, but they actually have been ongoing.

It's interesting that none of our earthbound conversations mention the war very much - which kinda makes me think this is pre fall of Reach ... as I'm thinking someone must have gotten a warning to Earth that the Covies were coming. Maybe not though.

The Widow's Story makes some references that Melissa might have seen the fall of Reach, but it's hard to be certain.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:42 am
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Mike_Was
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 		EDIT: Trout filleted, grilled with a lovely cream sauce.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:18 am
Last edited by Mike_Was on Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:26 am; edited 2 times in total
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Atrophied
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devolver wrote:
chaotic_mind wrote:
All your base are belong to me. Make your time.


Ah, you totally set me up the bomb. Thanks for the help GSC, Prince, and Chaotic. That link was helpful. It said this, which seems to answer my question:

Quote:
Elites coexist with Prophets uneasily. They need access to the Forerunner technology parsed and reverse engineered by the Prophets, and certainly demonstrably share some religious beliefs.


So there's one reason the elites need the prophets.


For great justice - Move every 'zig'

And the reason prophets need the elites:

Quote:
These intelligent, highly evolved beings are physically weak, hence their need for Elite allies. The pact allows the prophets to advance their search through conquest and occasionally assimilation of species whose homeworlds or solar systems contain Forerunner architecture or technology, often unguessed at by the resident species.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:21 am
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CoffeeJedi
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 		waaaaaaaay back when:
Quote:
drift off from station, Reach burning in the darkness like a lantern of hope, dockyard after dockyard buzzing with worker /// drones, someone crawling over the back doing detail work on the hull, the warm touch of a welding torch like little licks from a cat's tongue and


her ship was stationed at Reach, it's orbital dockyards were full of activity as the drones repaired and built ships, it was only 'burning' in a metaphorical sense, it was THE symbol of humanity out there away from Earth, so I think we discount the "burning Reach=glassed planet" spec from... what, a month ago?
(yeah, i know its trout, but i'd rather just SAY it than link it)
she may have witnessed the FoR, but this line doesn't refer to that event
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:22 am
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devolver
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 		This also struck me from the bungie page:

Quote:
The pact allows the prophets to advance their search through conquest and occasionally assimilation of species whose homeworlds or solar systems contain Forerunner architecture or technology, often unguessed at by the resident species.


Could this be why the Covenant "hate" humans? We have some Forerunner technology on Earth that they want? Maybe since humans don't share the Covenant religious beliefs, they'd rather blast us into oblivion than ally/assimilate us.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:31 pm
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GunsmithCat
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 		What's odd about it is that the Covenants don't seem interested in subjugating us, just exterminating. We're either a larger affront or bigger threat than the normal culture they find.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:33 pm
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GunsmithCat wrote:
What's odd about it is that the Covenants don't seem interested in subjugating us, just exterminating. We're either a larger affront or bigger threat than the normal culture they find.


Maybe, due to extensive studying and viewing previous attempts at self-subjugation, they don't think that we'll convert to their religious belief system. Think back to the Crusades - there are still muslims around despite the best efforts of the Catholics of that era to exterminate/subjugate them all. Also note that due to the extreme resistance that we put up, very few humans would be willing to 'switch sides' and kill their own race for the Covenant.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 3:59 pm
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CoffeeJedi
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 		my take on the Covies wanting to exterminate all humans, is this:

from what we've seen, the only intelligent, space faring life in the galaxy is part of the Covenant, its just us and them really (with the exception of the Forerunners (long gone) and Flood (uncontrollable))

i think that the Prophets want to elevate themselves to the level of the Forerunners, they want extreme control over the entire galaxy, and so far they'd been able to do it, pulling every race into their fold... until they met us

humanity was a threat to them, we were far too powerfull to conquer and subjugate, and if we "joined" with them, they know that we would just turn the Covenant into a United Federation of Planets type of democratic organization, why, we'd probably even set the Grunts free and give them a voice in the galactic congress! (the nerve of us!)

so... they can't subjugate us (we're too rebellious, free-thinking), but maybe they can wipe us out completely! so what's the easist way to control your armies into killing the enemy at all cost? easy... religion!

it worked for the Christians during the crusades, its working for Muslim extremists today; convince your underlings that your enemy is absolutely and completely evil and beyond remorse, and that its God's will (or the Forerunners') that they be wiped out... and your underlings will do anything for that little slice o' heaven in the afterlife

on a tangent to this idea... could the Prophets be the remnants of the Forerunners, trying to reclaim their lost empire after thousands of years?
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:27 pm
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devolver
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GunsmithCat wrote:
It's been hard to pin down where this falls in the Haloverse timeline.


Just listened to Harmony on the recipe3 page. It doesn't pin down the timeline exactly, but--I could be wrong--I think this is the first WAV that makes it clear the events are happening during the Covenant war.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 5:07 pm
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CoffeeJedi
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 		hey, harmony has been enhotenatedofied on recipe3

this is the first official mention of the Covenant and the war in the wav files

edit: looks like i lost the fastest finger contest
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 5:07 pm
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