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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): General/Updates
[SPEC][INFO]The Princess, definitive thread
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CoffeeJedi
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 1327
Location: Charlotte NC, USA

 		[SPEC][INFO]The Princess, definitive thread
there is a possibility that The Sleeping Princess is going to become our biggest ally here, she could also turn out to be our greatest threat. We need to get the facts straight on her and The Pious Flea first, here are some questions and my speculation:

1) She is only partially trapped
originally she was in her "glass coffin", but now has some mobility, she has a "dungeon" (file? protected memory?) that she can move around in, and can slip out into other parts of the server from time to time as well:

Quote:
I am fine, have the necessary tools to hide hard in the darkness, to
meddle in the affairs of dragons and run like hell
This entity generally gives good results.



2) She is a child process/ copy of the queen:

Quote:
voodoo parents
the Queen
the Queen
the Queen


Quote:
I wish either my father or my mother, or indeed both of them, as they
were
in duty both equally bound to it, had minded what they were about



3) she created the Manticore, or at least, is trying to create another one:

Quote:
I believe I can help you out, I can apply a construct to protect your
core


(ok, did SHE say this, or did the questioner ask this?)

Edit: ok, just checked the Wiki, looks like the Pious Flea, the Princess's servant is the one doing all of this.... at any rate, the two are allies, so this thread still counts
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 11:50 am
Last edited by CoffeeJedi on Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:27 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Alakath
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Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 28

 		I agree that the SP and the PF are our two allies and that we need to get into touch with them. The other entity that we need to get into touch with might be the narrator of the story, but we have yet to see that person.

As for your Spec, I am going to have to disagree with a few things.

Quote:
I am fine, have the necessary tools to hide hard in the darkness, to
meddle in the affairs of dragons and run like hell
This entity generally gives good results.


To me, this line does not sound like it is coming from the SP, unless all of the other lines are from the PF or Narrator. I'm an English major in college; analyzing writing is the kind of thing I do every day. My bet is that this line is from the Queen. It seems similar to the writings on the websites, and the rest of the segment it is from seems mocking. Note how this is the only segment that ends with "Modestly,"

I do, however, like the Spec that she is a child process of the Queen, that seems good. The only way I can see that not sticking is if the only reason it used the words "Voodoo Parents" in the first place were because it did not have other words to communicate.

The speaker does say that she can protect the core, and I agree that the speaker in that section is the SP. I am unsure if this is the Manticore though... The manticore seems to be more of an offensive than a defensive tool.

Now, this is WILD SPECULATION but what if the SP is the child of Melissa and the Castaway, and really the SP is what caused all this trouble in the first place? That could be why she was locked away. Is there any history of AIs mating in the Bungie universe? I am thinking of EverQuest for some reason and how Vox and Nagafen had a child (Kerafym, The Sleeper) that was the most powerful force in the universe and was kept entombed for that reason.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:24 pm
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Max Damage
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Alakath wrote:
Now, this is WILD SPECULATION but what if the SP is the child of Melissa and the Castaway, and really the SP is what caused all this trouble in the first place?


Problem there.

The Castaway (whoever he is), is human. He mentions that he's married, too.

Anyhow, the dynamics of a human mating with a ships AI are quite mindboggling. Also gives new meaning to the word 'cybersex'.

That said, Melissa does seem to fall for the guy to a degree. He makes her feel 'real'. I guess for an AI, that must be quite a unique experience.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:27 pm
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gkscotty
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 		Not Halo-literate here, but aren't AI's made from the memories and minds of real people? I imagine they would want to feel "real" every so often.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:33 pm
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Max Damage
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gkscotty wrote:
Not Halo-literate here, but aren't AI's made from the memories and minds of real people? I imagine they would want to feel "real" every so often.


Depends on the type.

'Smart' AI's are incredibly intelligent. Mindbogglingly so, able to run rings around ordinary AI constructs. A smart AI is generated from the neural patterns of a cloned human brain - an expensive and time-consuming process. In addition, smart AI's have a limited lifespan. They think so fast that after about 7 years they just fizzle out by themselves. Smart AI's can take to pretty much any task as a human would, given the appropriate interface and knowledge, and can usually do it better than anything else.

Then there are normal AI's. Ships AIs and the like. They can seem very human - have emotions, dream, love, etc.. But they are purely inorganic constructs, made by humans for humans, rather than generated from natural neural patterns. I don't believe there's any lifespan on a traditional AI.

It seems possible that this is a normal-type AI we're dealing with.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:39 pm
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NACIONAL
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
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Location: Medellin, Colombia

 		until we have clear what are we dealing here (who is SP and the PF), we should have an open mind about this...

My spec is that the princess is indeed a child process of the queen, but remember the queen is now made of "parts" of other constructs, so maybe they are not so similar right now. i do think too that the SP and the PF are our only allies, given the kind of writings that we are reading from melissa/operator in the site...
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:46 pm
Last edited by NACIONAL on Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ste
Boot

Joined: 27 Jul 2004
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Max Damage wrote:
It seems possible that this is a normal-type AI we're dealing with.


Possible, but unlikely. In the military snippets it mentions what the AI's favourite games were "before" - presumably before refers to when they were human. They discuss Melissa / The Operator, and he mentions (as a joke, or flirting, or whatever) hers was Spin the Bottle.

Plus we can see from that pieced-together link memory that she so abhors that the reason she fell for The Castaway was that he made her feel real. AIs may crave reality whatever, but I'm sure that once being real makes them crave it more. All she wants is what she had.

(And he gives her the illusion of what she's so desperate for, and in classic fairytale fashion, that brings about The Destruction Of The Universe).

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:46 pm
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optikal
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 		Small correction - all AI's have that seven-year-limit. Cortana is the first successful(that we know of) 'smart' AI based on a human brain, and the speculation is that she might rampant faster because of her untested design.


And AI's don't fizzle out. They think themselves to the point where they can no longer effectively communicate on our level. Its almost like autism. They appear batty-cuckoo to the humans that built them, but not being able to reach their levels of processing power, the humans have no way of knowing for sure. The prevailing theory is that the AI's collapse under the weight of their own minds.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:46 pm
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eMouse
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 		There was an interesting article supporting the idea that the Flea is in control of ladybee777.

If this is true, it could mean that we have had no contact with the Sleeping Princess yet.

If the Princess is an archived copy of an early version of the Queen, it would seem reasonable that the Widow would want to have access to her in order to rebuild the Queen. However, the dream indicated that the Widow was not aware of the Princess, thus the Princess is still sleeping?

One goal might be to awaken (unarchive) the Princess, so that the Widow can use her to help fix the Queen.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 12:59 pm
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NACIONAL
Boot


Joined: 27 Jul 2004
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Location: Medellin, Colombia
eMouse wrote:
One goal might be to awaken (unarchive) the Princess, so that the Widow can use her to help fix the Queen.


And we want that??... maybe the PF and the Sp are our only allies... remember that the queen/melissa is after dana...
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:04 pm
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Partnerz
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 		If like Cortana, An AI would too slow to operate after seven years, then we have to look at the author of the Killer jpg. a different way, as she has been alive more than 7 years.

The queen mentions thats she is a search and destroy AI, or Seek, behold, reveal, resist. She proves this by finding dana and letting dana know about this. ie Searches for data, understands the data its found, then acts upon it.

Now in the Killer jpg. we are told "are you the pious flea".The author responds with

Quote:
Answers:

Seek the truth
Behold the truth
That is the law and the whole of the law


This suggests that the author is a simple seek AI. If finds things, but cannot process and act upon its findings (unlike the queen). This is completely different to the flea, as all we know is that it likes to hide.

My point is that if you wanted to keep an AI for more than 7 years you would have to stop it processing data. This could be done simply by removing the functions to do this, but having them their so that they can put togethor to form a complete ai.

The author of the killer text makes the point of telling us they have beeen alive more than 7 years. Maybe what we are looking at is not different entities, but the combined Pious flea, Sleeping princess.

I no it is purely spec but it makes sense (to me anyway)
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:12 pm
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Roc
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 		If the AI has been alive for more than 7 years, might it then be assumed to be (halo-link) Covenant AI?
Not to mention that devout religiousness is typically attributed to the Covenant (Pious Flea).

In the Characters thread, I posit that the Pious Flea is malicious, and by being in league with the Princess, I believe she is as well.

I think the Queen/Operator is simply trying to ensure her survival. I don't think we want the Princess to wake up.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:18 pm
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Gram
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Location: Cold, with a 86% chance of Rain

 		There have been instances regareding copying and merging of AI's in Bungie's Halo and Marathon universe, but so far nothing to do with mating.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:27 pm
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Atoner
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Joined: 28 Jul 2004
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 		It's too early to tell if the "Pious Flea" or the "Sleeping Princess" are our allies or our enemies.

It is possible to make some speculations regarding their alignment towards each other.

Since the Flea hides from The Window/SPDR, we can assume they are opposed somehow. We don't know the Princess' disposition to anyone since no one has "found" her. We do know that the Melissa AI considers the characters "The Servant" and "The Assassin" as potential enemies. It is possible that the Servant/Assasin might be the Flea/Princess, but we have nothing to back that up yet.

That Melissa is out to get revenge on Dana is a total misunderstanding on both of their parts. Dana was just trying to fix her site, she had no hostile intent. Melissa saw the attempt at fixing the site as an attack, this also is incorrect. I think it would be erroneous to assume the Melissa AI is malevolent.

-A-

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:14 pm
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Stargazer
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 		Their is one thing that is wierd. You say the SPDR/ queen and flea are enemies. But if the Queen is a human AI only following protocol (it tries to discover why a human is atacking it, but finds no conclusin so does what she is programmed to do) that what would that make the flea?

Their is really good evidence that the flea is our courrent contsact (see the wiki) ans the flea mentions about being confused in communicating using english. Could the flea be an alien AI?

And wouldn't that logically make it an enemy, and the queen our ally?

Its just a thoguht of course, but a lot of evidence points at this theory

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:25 pm
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