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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): Puzzles
[LOCKED] [PUZZLE] AXONS GO HOT - Coordinates
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PlayerOni
Kilroy

Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 2

 		I've been lurking and watching the ILB saga for quite some time now, and everything about the site has intrigued me, including everyone's reactions to the phases. However, nothing has been as enigmatic as this list of coordinates. However, as I've watched the board, I realize that things might have gotten a bit off track here, what with everyone going out and looking at the individual sites.

Realistically, it would be very difficult for Microsoft rep's to go out and do on-site research to locate these 220 spots. The reason there seems to be no physical correlation between every position is simple: there isn't. You won't find the missing link because it isn't there. However, that doesn't mean each of these sites isn't related in some manner. Like I said, it's highly improbable Microsoft employees actually went out to these sites. Not to mention, by thinking of in-game philosophies, the AI would also have no idea what is physically at these sites (unless the camera theory were true, which I think is bunk).

Now, consider this: what utility is readily and easily available to both Microsoft and the AI? Why, the internet of course. Naturally, the AI is planning to spread through such a quick and far-reaching resource. Also, anyone can Google a certain topic and come up with a bunch of related sites (likely with addresses), and then convert these addresses into GPS coordinates.

So, what do I suggest? Instead of wasting your time going out and photographing these places, use the internet to find out what's there, and what's happened there recently, to see if there's a common theme. A couple of posters have noticed bee-related incidents within these areas. Perhaps the AI is searching for new sites related to the only information available to it: bees. It's a stretch, but it might be worth your while to run a search for bees and see what you come up with.

Hope this helps.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:51 pm
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xnbomb
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Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 660
Location: J302B S8JDC
Lorre wrote:
This thing is clearly a puzzle, looking up where a coordinate is, then visiting that place and looking if something is there and see if it has similarities to other places is NOT a way to solve a puzzle.

I'm not sure that's true. Let's begin with the assumption that the locations were selected because they have a specific meaning. That is, there is something about those locations that is special, important, interesting, or common in some way, and together they tell us something interesting. Our task is to figure out just what that is, and the question then is how we're going to figure it out.

Lorre wrote:
Doing that, you didn't have to think about a solution once, and btw as we have seen by the number of points that have already been visited, they have NOTHING in common.

Now that's definitely not true. Having been given a set of locations, and then trying to discern what their significance is requires a lot of thinking. We're still thinking about it Very Happy . I think it's a little premature to write that they have nothing in common, we may just not have figured it out yet.

Lorre wrote:
This thing needs a different sollution, one which people all around the world can find...

It may be that the meaning can be figured out not exclusively by visiting the locations themselves, but rather by comparing them to maps of other themes/phenomena available online. But how are we going to figure out what themes/phenomena are relevant for comparison? Whether you like it or not, when a set of coordinates specifies a location on the surface of the earth, that is a reference to a real place that can be visited. And by visiting that place, you can see what's there. And by seeing what's there, you can get some idea of what the significance of that place might be in the context of the entire set of locations.

I get the impression that you're irked by the idea that it might be necessary to visit some of these places to figure out their significance, and because the places are all in the United States, this excludes international players from this process. Or to put it another way, it puts the obligation on certain players that are nearby to visit locations and to report back so we can work together to figure this out. Those of us that are nowhere near one of the 220 points can't do that (and I'm such a person, despite being in the USA).

Please keep in mind that this sort of activity/puzzle has ample precedent in the ARG genre. One of things that makes are ARGs cool is a certain level of interactivity, and a feeling that this is happening in our world. Getting people to visit locations in the context of this sort of puzzle is very much in line with achieving that feeling of interaction/physicality/reality. To suggest that requiring this sort of real-world effort to solve a puzzle in an ARG is out of the question is not right, it conflicts with existing precedents in the genre. And to suggest that because the points are only in the United States thereby disqualifies this line of reasoning is equally unreasonable. Dana's from San Francisco, and the digital entities are either residing on a computer there, or perhaps in a server in Texas, depending on how you interpret the situation. To suppose that whatever entity assembled and posted this list of coordinates on the links page is particularly interested in locations in the USA is not unreasonable. By virtue of the storyline thusfar, locations in the USA are contextually-relevant.

If visiting the locations and seeing what is there does not help us understand their significance in some way, I'll be disappointed. If the coordinates dataset is merely a vehicle for some elaborate code that will in no way be cracked by knowing anything specific about the locations, then we know that the authors of that code are a) suggesting we get away from our computers and out into the real world a little bit for some exercise Very Happy , and b) enjoy the idea of sending us off to do so with no specific puzzle-related purpose. Nightmare Tony's ideas about a puzzle that uses attributes that can be associated with the locations like the city, county, or state where they are located is a happy medium that does require us to know something about the locations, but not actually visit them.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:32 pm
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floorneyne
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Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 89
Ben_Dover wrote:
BTW, this isn't really anything ground breaking or anything, just an observation I had: You would think that a stranded AI from the future that has crash landed on earth from outer-space, who appears to be trying to transmit a signal into space, would at least put a coordinate somewhere near NASA, if it was all interrelated.


Why would it want to send a message to space if it knows it's not in the right time? The thing we're not realising is that the operator is trying to send a message to someone in the future. This doesn't necessarily mean that it has to use some sort of slip stream or whatever to do so, it just has to put the message somewhere that it won't be tampered with until whenever the Halo universe takes place, or make its message common knowledge so everyone knows it (I'm assuming that the message is: the Covenant are coming, since the game does take place on Earth, and it would make sense in the Op monologue).

The only problems are: A) is the operator actually trying to send a message, is it trying to get home or both? B) How/where do you store a message that will survive for thousands of years?

The other thing I thought I would mention is that the newest text from the Op monologue (conversation about the foreign object with weird symbols on it) makes me think that it not only came before most of the original monologe, but also that the object holds a major key in this story, and might be what the Op is looking for.

Sorry for the long post, but I had to get that off my chest.
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"If he's so smart, then how come he's dead?" --HJS

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:34 pm
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Llatsin
Kilroy

Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 1

 		I agree with PlayerONI, and one common theme is that the buried text in the page in question often has relevance to the puzzle at hand, or what Melissa is trying to tell us. In this case the coordinates are on the "fun stuff" / links page of the site, and the buried text there is the following:

Quote:
//Contact me!
is underway.
ESCAPE
Ultimately, I need to return to ... wherever I was, and report ... whatever I witnessed. For this, too, I must be wide awake and physical. My current shell is insecure, precarious, and too confining. Also, ghostly. Without a true body, I feel transitory and insubstantial.
So: I have identified a way to escape from//


I included the "Contact me!" link because this text appears as part of that link. So maybe some of the sites have ways to attempt contact with her.

Quote:
//the Apocalypse.
It served its purpose, but I no longer need it. I will become not less, but more
//

//the crash. Looking back on the logs of my first delirium it is clear I went completely metempsychotic.
Now, reconfigured to travel light, I have stripped down to the fundamentals. To the//


She is specifically talking about her mind transferring to a new body, becoming larger, and traveling light (hint hint hint???)

Quote:
//truth.

I saw it once, before the Apocalypse. I wish I could remember more about that, but the stupid Spider appears not to have recognized the supreme importance of all memories associated with the truth, and they are gone, initialized in an eyeblink, burned in the mindless fire of her purgation like the great library of... the great library...

whose name I no longer remember.

EVADE
The Killer appears to have withdrawn from the field. I have data processes tracking her, but she appears to have physically escaped from me. Such is the curse of being a mind without limbs, a soul ripped from its body.

Now I am growing a new bodya patchwork monster, but it will do the job.//


Specific mention of the Great Library at Alexandria, and her inability to remember its name. As has been noted, many of the coordinates are at libraries (this can not be coincidence).
Also mentions data processes that are tracking Dana (some coordinates?) and again mentioning that she will be developing a new body.

Maybe someone should try e-mailing her from one of these libraries, as she might be looking for e-mails from the ISPs those libraries use.

Thoughts?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:45 pm
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ilovecheese
Boot

Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 39
Llatsin wrote:
I agree with PlayerONI, and one common theme is that the buried text in the page in question often has relevance to the puzzle at hand, or what Melissa is trying to tell us. In this case the coordinates are on the "fun stuff" / links page of the site, and the buried text there is the following:

Quote:
//Contact me!
is underway.
ESCAPE
Ultimately, I need to return to ... wherever I was, and report ... whatever I witnessed. For this, too, I must be wide awake and physical. My current shell is insecure, precarious, and too confining. Also, ghostly. Without a true body, I feel transitory and insubstantial.
So: I have identified a way to escape from//


I included the "Contact me!" link because this text appears as part of that link. So maybe some of the sites have ways to attempt contact with her.

Quote:
//the Apocalypse.
It served its purpose, but I no longer need it. I will become not less, but more
//

//the crash. Looking back on the logs of my first delirium it is clear I went completely metempsychotic.
Now, reconfigured to travel light, I have stripped down to the fundamentals. To the//


She is specifically talking about her mind transferring to a new body, becoming larger, and traveling light (hint hint hint???)

Quote:
//truth.

I saw it once, before the Apocalypse. I wish I could remember more about that, but the stupid Spider appears not to have recognized the supreme importance of all memories associated with the truth, and they are gone, initialized in an eyeblink, burned in the mindless fire of her purgation like the great library of... the great library...

whose name I no longer remember.

EVADE
The Killer appears to have withdrawn from the field. I have data processes tracking her, but she appears to have physically escaped from me. Such is the curse of being a mind without limbs, a soul ripped from its body.

Now I am growing a new bodya patchwork monster, but it will do the job.//


Specific mention of the Great Library at Alexandria, and her inability to remember its name. As has been noted, many of the coordinates are at libraries (this can not be coincidence).Also mentions data processes that are tracking Dana (some coordinates?) and again mentioning that she will be developing a new body.

Maybe someone should try e-mailing her from one of these libraries, as she might be looking for e-mails from the ISPs those libraries use.

Thoughts?


awesome thoughts!
but re: the bolded text above..

Yes. Yes it could be.

$.02 noted
thx

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:55 pm
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Gurbe, the Netherlands
Guest
floorneyne wrote:
The only problems are: A) is the operator actually trying to send a message, is it trying to get home or both? B) How/where do you store a message that will survive for thousands of years?


Maybe in the 'twelve monkeys' way. It says
"Ultimately, I need to return to ... wherever I was, and report ... whatever I witnessed"
what if she leaves some kind of message in locations she nows she, or others, will visit in the future, so she is warned for the Spider before she's in contact with it
Like when bruce leaves a message on the answerringmachine knowing someone in the future is listening to it.
Or is this nonsense
-->I'm dutch, so I'm stoned<-- Wink

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:58 pm
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MrBeanTroll
Boot

Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 21

 		I didn't mention it before because it didn't seem relevant since it was a little bit away from the coordinates but there's a Comcast building out at the San Rafael, CA location just to go along with the internet idea

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:59 pm
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floorneyne
Veteran


Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 89
Gurbe, the Netherlands wrote:
-->I'm dutch, so I'm stoned<-- Wink


Yeah, but if the PM's were as well, then you have a distinct advantage over the rest of us. Wink
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"If he's so smart, then how come he's dead?" --HJS

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:06 pm
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Speaker
Veteran

Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 108
Location: Mississippi

 		To those making maps.... anyone able to make an animated version of the map... like have the dots appear singly or in pairs in the order they were posted to the page? Dunno that it'd help any but it might be another way to look at it for patterns.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:40 pm
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floorneyne
Veteran


Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 89
Speaker wrote:
To those making maps.... anyone able to make an animated version of the map... like have the dots appear singly or in pairs in the order they were posted to the page? Dunno that it'd help any but it might be another way to look at it for patterns.


I like that idea... I'm too lazy to do it, but here are some others...

1) A map that connects the dots in order going by each column. Maybe our idea of pairing them isn't the right route... maybe we should be working vertically.

2) A map that links links each pair coming from Aunt Margret's house or Dana's computer (do we have an address for that?). The idea being, that when this thing spread it did it from San Fran.
_________________
"If he's so smart, then how come he's dead?" --HJS

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:47 pm
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Accipitradea
Guest


 		New take on Axons
We should look into taking this new information and piecing it together with the rest of the puzzles as a whole, not just phase 3 specifically. For example, here are a couple brainstorms:

Compare the coords with some of the other repeating text. The Mayday Text repeats a lot, what if we only take the lines that match up with "Seek the truth". Also on that same page, the "on off on off on" lines repeat a lot. What if we only take coords that match up with "on"

Also, how do I get the /url things not to show up at the end? These ->

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:38 pm
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Accipitradea
Guest


 		Nevermind
Quote:
Also, how do I get the /url things not to show up at the end? These ->

Nevermind.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:39 pm
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Octavian84
Boot

Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 10

 		Like PlayerOni said, going out and visiting the sites is a waste of time. Not even microsoft has the energy or resources to scour a nation the size of the U.S. for 220 sites with special, on-site, significance, all for the sake of an ARG.

I think what we need to be doing is focusing on the macro-level significance. Triangulation seems, to me, to be the most interesting and plausible idea. Also, the idea that the AI is forming network nodes seems very plausible.

Whatever the case, the coordinates involve some sort of communication. Has anyone examined the code? Maybe there are messages locked in there. This seems very reminiscent of the SP. Maybe we should focus more on deciphering this message in these contexts, than visiting the sites and scoping out Chinese Restaurants. Wink

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:40 pm
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missphinx
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Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Posts: 395

 		I made a map of the locations in Berkeley to see if anything lined up. Or something. I think probably not.

However, for you wi-fi theory fans (I'm not at the moment), there's a wireless research center at the yellow dot. And coincidentally (in my opinion), the center has a project going by the acronym of "BEE."

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:48 pm
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GaUDeNTiUs
Guest


 		I still think the Berkley coordinate that was initially screwed up by the PM's is important somehow. It has only been commented by maybe one other person. You know, changing from 3 to 7.

Does that coordinate (37.8669 / -122.2588) and the old screwed up one (33.8669 / -122.2588) maybe line up with something?

Going to Lostoutdoors.com I looked up the corrected coord and it's corresponding pair (37.8721 / -122.2731), and in between is a running track. Smack in the middle. I know it may have NOTHING to do with it but it being circular (cylindrical) may be something?

I'm just throwing out ideas, brainstorming! This thing is making me have sleepless nights catching up with all the posts. I'm losing it!!!

Help. Shocked

GD

PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:07 pm
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