unforum

[SpaceBass]

Unforum Organization

[Tien_Le]

okay, love the color scheme...say, can we have an Alias forum too? Probably don't need all the nifty sub-categories like you have for Push, since Alias isn't that involved yet.

[SpaceBass]

Okay, do you want an entire category but with less forums for Alias, or just a single forum for threads?

[Cortana]

Re: Unforum Organization

[SpaceBass]

Re: Unforum Organization

[Tien_Le]

[Cortana]

Re: Unforum Organization

[El Muchacho]

Re: Unforum Organization

[Cortana]

Re: Unforum Organization

[headmocker]

indeed

[headmocker]

I don't think I'm trying to create any kind of an issue. The issues that existed are basically:

1. A site owner hosting and participating a hidden group on a board that he ostensibly meant to be "free and open," and
2. The same people participating in these hidden groups are substantially the same people complaining that CollectiveDetective only allows you to read 10 posts a day. That's certainly more than you're allowed to read in LPAK....

Like I said, closed groups certainly have the right to exist, and site owners certainly have the right to host them... it's just a wee bit hypocritical to complain about CD being "closed" when you're participating in a group that has a higher barrier to entry than a measly $3.50/month.

[Ender]

If there was a hidden group at CD, it would be hidden for a very good reason, but of course, to keep in form... there are enough clues to its existance

As some people have found out. Bwahaha. <g>

[Cortana]

I think that we're all forgetting things here...

Things like the fact that when it came time to claim "a prize" at the end of the puzzle that opened CD that we agreed to share because hiding information from each other for the glory of individuals wasn't the right thing to do, instead a "we all win" approach was the one that we took. Yes, it's true, the winner of Push will be an individual. But should that individual be a member in good standing of several groups, I suppose they have a choice...share with the group at large, or share in private with the group they formed...

Such will be the debate, I imagine, in games where many, competing groups are fighting for a puzzle solution, I would imagine that there will be double agents, hidden moles, all manner of spies, cheats, liars and manipulators. To some, this part is more exciting than the game itself. I'm not that person, I would much rather just play the game, for the game, and finish the game with no hard feelings. The idea that it's to play "with friends" or some other such bullshit, isn't a particularly noble one. I mean, if we'd all played CM in small group with "just friends" would Bronwen have gotten on CNN? Would we have gotten coverage in major newspapers? Probably not.

In the end, the genre benefits when we ALL play as a team. That's all I really advocate. Take down the barriers. Take away the elitist attitude of "oh, I'm sorry, I wanted to play with just my friends, you new people just aren't worth my time." That's the problem. If we want to further the genre, as you've said, then we need to work together, not apart. We can take some different tacks, for certain, but a united front, as always, is a good thing.

In the end this issue which you say that we've created is actually core to our existence, both as a community of gamers, and as a community of people, with diverse talents and skills. If we choose splinter ourselves into many tiny fragments, spread out across the web, that's fine, I guess. but I think something will definitely be lost in the long run if that's the path we choose.

Cortana.

[Adrian]

I'm not sure what the point of all of this is. Speaking from the viewpoint of someone who doesn't live in the US, there is more to life and ARGs than Push. Most games don't have prizes. And if they did, who cares? What's wrong with having another forum out there, now that ARGN has closed?

If people want to all play in a big team, then they will - it's their choice; likewise, if they want to play in separate teams, there's no use trying to stop them, they'll just go and set up their own forums elsewhere. It's not as if it's difficult.

As always, I think this has turned into the usual CD.org vs. everyone else argument, which is getting very tiring. CD.org has 'pro' features, but costs money - hence I can confidently say that while it could well get many subscribers, it will never get everyone subscribing and there will always be people who want other solutions. They'll start up their own public forums - if not SpaceBass, then someone else. And if players don't like the public forums due to secret groups or whatever, they'll move on. It's not a big deal.

Last I looked, the ARGN forums were thriving. Obviously there's a demand for ARGN-type forums, and why should SpaceBass be faulted for starting up forums here? Let's let the players decide.

Speaking personally, I think most people don't care about secret groups, and if they did, they'd start up their own secret group, as evidently many people have.

[krystyn]

I'm kinda with Adrian.

Also, I am a 'part' of the online journaling community (as much as anyone can really be a part of it) and I have found, in various monthly or 6-monthly or yearly or whatever cycles, that you can drone on until the cows come home about how a journal should look and be written, and how the navigation from entry to entry should be formatted, and what subject matter is appropriate, or whether you should post a picture of yourself each and every day, and if putting an Amazon wishlist link on your journal is just tacky ...

And you know what? People get all upset and they forget to write their fucking journals. They're too busy verbally wanking on mailing lists about how other people's journals should function. And then everyone calms down, writes brilliant, beautiful, mostly non-meta stuff, and everything's just grand.

Maybe I will go play a game now. I consider meta talk to be important, but this endless conundrum of who does what where and under what auspices and Who Is the Bigger Hypocrite and Jerky Face Elitist seems to be saying to me that maybe it's something that is just not solvable at this point in time.

Things were going really well, organically, for a while (the emergence of the Cloudmakers group, the explosion of independent games that followed after that). Is there some reason why we can't just let go and enjoy ourselves? Are the Moral Issues really too huge to forgo in favor of letting the genre just speak for itself?