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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): Puzzles
[UPDATE] specific times on locations - Coordinates 8-17-04
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BuzzKill
Guest


Quick thought, maybe irrelevent

SP is talking in metaphors, right?

Castle = a server somewhere.
SP, Queen, Spider, Flea = AIs
Roads = network connections of some type
Ocean = ?

Why would SP reference an Ocean, and what entity does the Ocean correspond to that would cause the Queen to pull back a "road"?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 5:29 pm
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(a)Lurker
Guest


I just wanted to mention a couple of things that have been bugging me...


If she can move around the Internet with impunity, and we are every bit of a threat to her as Dana (even in this thread we are talking about trying to possibly impede her by solving the GPS puzzle), wouldn't she attack the Wiki and danablog?

Pertaining to a game event at GPS locales, the queen already was frustrated about being trapped in a primitive network box (what's next...tin cans and string?). Doesn't that make it really unlikely that she can manifest physically in a major way? Furthermore, axions are the beginning of a neural network, right? That's not even a full brain, and is certainly a far cry from arms and limbs.

As an event planner, I know that you would want to give solid details for your event if you want people to attend. So would the PM's. The last thing you would do is change locations and times. Plans would be concrete waaaay in advance, and advertising would not change close to the date. RL event strike one.

Corporate entities should get permission for on-campus or public location events (mainly to avoid bad press if they were to interrupt on-goings at the locations, traffic flow, etc.). This would have to be done well in advance of the event. I dunno if we could look into that angle (see if MS has contacted the locations about an event). Possible RL event strike two.

Someone earlier said that the coords must be changing to correct mistakes. It works just as well with the "oh noes! teh ARG'ers are coming to the GPS's!" theory because (just as extrasonic said) dana is giving us life lessons about trespassing, and the GPS's are being changed to non-private locations (to protect those who would happily trespass anyway).

Even if M. is able to break free of the box in a drastic way, the story is not to the point of endgame yet. Too many loose ends...SP and PF are fledgling characters, Dana's still in Asia, we don't know how futuristic entities end up in 2004, who is the stowaway, who/what caused the future crash, what is the story surrounding the future crash, etc.?

It would be a h00ge waste of money for the above to be developed and unanswered, so they surely will address these before endgame. And to that end, the story is surely finished already...the PM's aren't flying by the seat of their pants. With that, do we really believe that the widow was killed to appease us over one GPS error (especially considering that M. keeps changing them too)? Again, the game has to be already 85% finished. That leaves some room for minor changes to tie it into our efforts and RL circumstances. That does not leave room to kill one of only 6 main characters in the book (five if you don't include Auntie).


Sooo...the chances of an endgame or RL event seem slim. If there is a physical manifestation of any sort, it would HAVE to mesh with IG logic (no signs being unfurrled, no green vans handing out jars of honey).

Perhaps we need to consider why Queeney wants roads? Is she in finding a voice mode, build a body mode, or kill the assassin/killer/dana mode? To that end, what does she have to work with...a primitive network and the contents of ILB (including the changing .wav files). How would those manifest physically?

Forget the PM's being limited by their location in WA...what about M's being limited from being trapped in an ADSL box?[/i]

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 5:34 pm
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clamatius
Decorated


Joined: 24 Jul 2004
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Location: Seattle

Quote:
The PMs gave us a table of coordinates. A week later, they replaced it with a significantly different table. Does this really mean that the first table they gave us was worthless...was always worthless...was always intended to be worthless...and was always intended to be a complete waste of everyone's time?


No, I don't think so.

*dons PM hat*
Let's say (just hypothetically) that the puzzle was of the "join-the-dots" type. To make it harder, some extra "noise" points were thrown in. Et voila, you can change the dataset significantly. Now instead of a random scribble, it looks more like a monkey (or whatever) with the improved points. It still doesn't look much like a monkey because there's still noise in there.

Repeat point improvement process via updates till your silly players finally notice there's a monkey staring them in the face.
*whips off PM hat*

I am not saying it's a join-the-dots puzzle, this is just an example.
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Check out my [URL=http://clamatius.blogspot.com/]blog[/URL] for my latest ILB stuff.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 5:34 pm
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Varin
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(a)Lurker wrote:
If she can move around the Internet with impunity, and we are every bit of a threat to her as Dana (even in this thread we are talking about trying to possibly impede her by solving the GPS puzzle), wouldn't she attack the Wiki and danablog?


As for the wiki, I'd say no she can't attack it. These PMs seem seasoned enough to know to stay away from that and respect that it is our tool to play the game.
_________________
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 5:40 pm
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sfsdfd
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Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 112

Varin wrote:
As for the wiki, I'd say no she can't attack it. These PMs seem seasoned enough to know to stay away from that and respect that it is our tool to play the game.

That depends on your definition of "attack," doesn't it?

If "attack" = "hack, DDOS, etc.," then yeah, I don't expect the PMs to be doing that any time soon.

But if "attack" = "actively enter and participate, e.g., post messages and collect addresses"... that's not outside the realm of possibility.

Consider:

1) This game has already been more interactive than the AI game. We've had running email conversations with an in-game character. Laia Salla occasionally made reference to a fan website, and we had a telephone conversation with the Statue Security guy and of course the ARM rally - but what we've seen thus far in this game goes beyond all of that.

2) The AI game involved an "attack" on players, albeit of a different kind. One of the AI plots involved a rogue AI that thrived on nightmares. The Cloudmakers group came up with the idea of a "honeypot" - putting together a collection of Cloudmaker dreams and somehow transmitting it to the AI.

Foolish concept, I said. Complete rubbish, I said. A ridiculous waste of time, I said.

And I was completely wrong. The PMs saw the group-effort database, incorporated it into the story, and even built a very freaky Flash-animated narrative out of the dreams. It was an incredible moment in the game.

This also demonstrated that the PMs are very willing to have in-game interactions with us, as long as the results are slick and consistent. Interestingly, the PMs admitted that they hadn't planned on this, or any, solution; they just figured they'd see what we could come up with, and were duly impressed with the results.

So it's hardly indubitable that "operator" might enlist as a forum member and start harassing us in this forum. I don't expect it, but it's not out of the question.

- David Stein

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:07 pm
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Dorkmaster
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 1328
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sfsdfd wrote:
So it's hardly indubitable that "operator" might enlist as a forum member and start harassing us in this forum. I don't expect it, but it's not out of the question.


So, you mean ilovecheese could have been the operator? [/joke]
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:11 pm
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Varin
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Joined: 02 Dec 2002
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Location: South of where I used to be

sfsdfd wrote:
But if "attack" = "actively enter and participate, e.g., post messages and collect addresses"... that's not outside the realm of possibility.

~snip~

So it's hardly indubitable that "operator" might enlist as a forum member and start harassing us in this forum. I don't expect it, but it's not out of the question.


Although it's not out of the realm of possibility something like is usually frowned upon. Another ARG did this recently and it was not taken positively at all (to put it mildly).

Now of course that doesn't mean that the Operator can't harass us personally in some way, it just probably won't happen on this forum.

Quote:
The Cloudmakers group came up with the idea of a "honeypot" - putting together a collection of Cloudmaker dreams and somehow transmitting it to the AI.

~snip~

And I was completely wrong. The PMs saw the group-effort database, incorporated it into the story, and even built a very freaky Flash-animated narrative out of the dreams. It was an incredible moment in the game.


But the players put this honeypot ingame, right?
_________________
"I still miss him to this day and probably always will." - Todd Keeler, Chasing the Wish

"meta meta meta, I made you out of play..." ~ j5


PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:15 pm
Last edited by Varin on Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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(a)Lurker
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Varin wrote:
(a)Lurker wrote:
If she can move around the Internet with impunity, and we are every bit of a threat to her as Dana (even in this thread we are talking about trying to possibly impede her by solving the GPS puzzle), wouldn't she attack the Wiki and danablog?


As for the wiki, I'd say no she can't attack it. These PMs seem seasoned enough to know to stay away from that and respect that it is our tool to play the game.



I agree completely. And besides, the PM's couldn't hit the wiki without actually hacking. However, they could hack Dana's blog and totally create new ('previously undiscovered') sites. The point I'm making is while we think outside the box, we need to keep within what is both RL possible for PM's and IG possible for Melissa.
Anything that is possible for both the game and PM's to do, but we know won't happen (because PM's won't break laws, the move would be an ineffective marketing decision, it would alienate the ARG community, or M. would not be motivated to do it) will probably be written around in the story to avoid the necessity of suspension of disbelief, right?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:15 pm
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WhatTheDilly-O
Boot

Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 18

Okay, I apologize, but I havn't been paying attention to the ILB saga for almost a week and I can't possibly read all 20 pages of this thread.

My first almost certain trout is this: It's pretty safe to say that the times on the new coordinates only apply to August 24, because the very first time listed is 6:07, which is precicely the time of day when the ILB countdown hits zero. That that time would be significant on any other day seems pretty unlikely given the utter lack of anything to suggest it is, so I doubt any of the other times are either. It's pretty obvious to me that that location (D.C., I believe?) is where the shiz will go down first on the 24th, and then it will spread to the other locations at the times listed.

Now I have a couple questions:

Like I said, I can't read all 20 pages of this thread, so if someone would be so kind as to direct me to the map with the lines connecting the locations chronologically, I'd appreciate it.

There is a lot of mention about something the Sleeping Princess said about roads and stuff (the first post on this page, for example, if I'm still on page 20 by the time I finish this post). I don't know what that's from. When did she say that?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:22 pm
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IvanLeopold
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Alright, I'm done with this.

Folks:

I've tracked about 50 data points so far and was, at first, mildly optimistic. It appeared that GPS satellites number 9, 18, and 22 occured at every data point. As I went on, though, that small correlation broke down, and now there's distinctly no pattern to wath GPS satellites are available at every point. I'm throwing in the towel on this one and admitting I'm wrong/too frustrated to do 160 more data points.

I like the idea that this is meant to be a refining process. Perhaps a script that will compare the coordinates from the first go 'round and the recent coords. will reveal something of note?

I'm also going to begin looking at all points originating (i.e. have their left hand column value) in D.C.

-Ivan, who's sore from ctrl+c and ctrl+v ad infinitum

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:30 pm
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Shad0
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Joined: 20 Jun 2004
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Location: Southern California, USA

WhatTheDilly-O wrote:
There is a lot of mention about something the Sleeping Princess said about roads and stuff (the first post on this page, for example, if I'm still on page 20 by the time I finish this post). I don't know what that's from. When did she say that?

In the 8/13 e-mail from ladybee777SPLAThotmail.com -- who is, I think, now pretty much universally accepted to be the Sleeping Princess.
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These were the puzzles that would take a day, these were puzzles that would take a week, and these puzzles they'd probably never figure out until we broke down and gave them the answers. ... The Cloudmakers solved all of these puzzles on the first day.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:33 pm
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WhatTheDilly-O
Boot

Joined: 29 Jul 2004
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Shad0 wrote:
WhatTheDilly-O wrote:
There is a lot of mention about something the Sleeping Princess said about roads and stuff (the first post on this page, for example, if I'm still on page 20 by the time I finish this post). I don't know what that's from. When did she say that?

In the 8/13 e-mail from ladybee777SPLAThotmail.com -- who is, I think, now pretty much universally accepted to be the Sleeping Princess.


Ohhh. So is that the second one she's sent us now? There was one earlier in the month too, right?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:40 pm
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GunsmithCat
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Joined: 05 Aug 2004
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(a)Lurker wrote:

If she can move around the Internet with impunity, and we are every bit of a threat to her as Dana (even in this thread we are talking about trying to possibly impede her by solving the GPS puzzle), wouldn't she attack the Wiki and danablog?


I think you solved your own theorem. Since Melissa could find Dana by her blog, and her blog is on the net, Melissa can't move around the internet with impunity.

It may be because she isn't aware of certain aspects of the net, or she lacks the means or desire to track them all down. She might be limited to knowing and interacting with places (net or otherwise) that SPDR/Flea access.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:45 pm
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Shad0
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Joined: 20 Jun 2004
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WhatTheDilly-O wrote:
Shad0 wrote:
WhatTheDilly-O wrote:
There is a lot of mention about something the Sleeping Princess said about roads and stuff (the first post on this page, for example, if I'm still on page 20 by the time I finish this post). I don't know what that's from. When did she say that?

In the 8/13 e-mail from ladybee777SPLAThotmail.com -- who is, I think, now pretty much universally accepted to be the Sleeping Princess.

Ohhh. So is that the second one she's sent us now? There was one earlier in the month too, right?

Yup, on August 3rd.
_________________
These were the puzzles that would take a day, these were puzzles that would take a week, and these puzzles they'd probably never figure out until we broke down and gave them the answers. ... The Cloudmakers solved all of these puzzles on the first day.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:46 pm
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GaUDeNTiUs
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Call me a crackpot or whatever, but it's TOO much of a coincidence.

The first hit in WASHINGTON, DC is at 6:07am. That's 367 minutes into the 24th. Take into account the whole Bungie # thing and divide 367 by 3 and you get 122.33333 . . . and so on. I had mentioned once before the unusual number of 122 in the coordinates in the old set. The only 122.3's I found were all for Seattle, WA. The 'screw ups' that were in the ocean were for Seattle, WA.

To get a little off the Seattle thing, the original screw up on the old set of coords landed in Berkeley. There are now six hits in Berkeley.

Whatever this means in the whole of the ARG, I haven't a clue. I just hope this means something to someone.

I'll keep busting my head, and try to come up with something.

GD

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:53 pm
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