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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): General/Updates
[TRIVIA/OT] Marathon / Haloverse relationship
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GunsmithCat
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 		[TRIVIA/OT] Marathon / Haloverse relationship
This is probably not relevant to ILB specifically, but it came up in the 404 thread and is a fun one anyway Smile

Discussion so far:

Shad0 wrote:
SuperJerms wrote:
oh, and not to cross thread, but could someone please point me to the place where they explained what 'forerunner tech' is? I have only heard about it in reference to the frozen artifact found in space with odd shapes on it, or in spec about the princess. but who are the forerunner, what backstory do they come from, what is their goal, and what would it mean if SP is forerunner?

We don't know a heck of a lot about the Forerunners, but what little we do know is in the Wiki. For one thing, they apparently created Halo.


Anton P. Nym wrote:
SuperJerms wrote:
one other question...do the Forerunner = Jjaro, or do we not know?

It's (probably) a little outside game, but just in case... Bungie will neither confirm nor deny that the Forerunner are the Jjaro. I personally don't think so, but there's no evidence that conclusively proves or disproves that.

They have said that there's no direct tie between Marathon and Halo, though there are indirect ties that fans have been able to trace. (Not the least of which is the UNSC/UESC logo, but there are others.)

To summarise what is known for certain about the connection:
  • this ^ is up
  • this v is down.
Beyond that it's guesswork. Smile

-- Steve notes that Bungie's good at leaving us guessing at the backstory stuff... but that's half the fun!


GunsmithCat wrote:
SuperJerms wrote:
one other question...do the Forerunner = Jjaro, or do we not know?


What Anton said.

Not having read the books or played the games but just caught up on the libraries and research sites there are on it, my basic deduction is that Halo = Universe Post Durandal ...

But this would be a spec that would require it's own thread. If not it's own forum Smile


SuperJerms wrote:
GunsmithCat wrote:
my basic deduction is that Halo = Universe Post Durandal


Halo starts in 2552 according to the manual. According to the Marathon's Story website, the Marathon is first attacked in 2794. So are you saying that Halo is a universe where Durandal/the player keep the events of Marathon from ever happening in the first place, and the Covenant happen instead of the Pfhor?


PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:18 am
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GunsmithCat
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SuperJerms wrote:
GunsmithCat wrote:
my basic deduction is that Halo = Universe Post Durandal


Halo starts in 2552 according to the manual. According to the Marathon's Story website, the Marathon is first attacked in 2794. So are you saying that Halo is a universe where Durandal/the player keep the events of Marathon from ever happening in the first place, and the Covenant happen instead of the Pfhor?


Basically after reading up it seemed like:

a) Durandal believed that he could exist for as long as he could expand and as long as there was time
b) Problem being, eventually the universe will end and so will he
c) He theorized that if he was the last entitiy when the universe ends he could basically become a god and repeat himself through multiple universes
d) He manipulates a Cyborg, who is tied to destiny, to achieve this goal
e) The Marathon universe ends and the Halo universe begins. There are drastic similarities but it's not the same place

So basically Halo is Marathon revisited, but not really a sequel in the proper sense. More like a second draft Smile

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:22 am
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Anton P. Nym
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 		... and, to complete the discussion to date: (woohoo, simultaniety!)

Anton P. Nym wrote:
SuperJerms wrote:
GunsmithCat wrote:
my basic deduction is that Halo = Universe Post Durandal


[snip]So are you saying that Halo is a universe where Durandal/the player keep the events of Marathon from ever happening in the first place, and the Covenant happen instead of the Pfhor?

Now we are straying off-topic, so I'll just steer you back to the Marathon Story Page you linked above... and suggest that you read the Marathon Infinity notes. Caution: it's mind-bendy stuff that doesn't bother to explain itself, and the vast majority of the storyline had to be teased out over years of careful analysis that still might be wrong.

However, the concensus is that the entire game is spent jumping between alternate universes in order to avert a disaster of cosmic proportions.

Hmm... maybe not so off-topic after all.

Alternate universes -> cross-brane transfer (slipstream) -> time-bendy Forerunner artifact in slipstream (see First Strike novel) -> Halo-ILB connection?

-- Steve isn't going to pursue this one until we get more evidence, though.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:35 am
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thetinguy
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 		The 2 stoylines are not connected. There may be similarities between Marathon and Halo but their storylines do not intesect whatsoever. Just becase there are similarities doesn't mean they are hte same. I mean hey it's bungie, they must use some of the same symbols as homage or just laziness to create new ones. Look at Quake and Doom. Both Made id software. They are VERY similar but not the same. It has been specualted but almost everyone agrees Marathon and Halo are sompletly different.

p.s. I THINK somewhere that bungie or someone important said they are different storylines and do not intersect.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:55 pm
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Scumbag
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thetinguy wrote:
The 2 stoylines are not connected. There may be similarities between Marathon and Halo but their storylines do not intesect whatsoever.


Except for the minor fact that Bungie has stated there are connections, but they aren't going to spell it out for us.

Minor, of course. Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:08 pm
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SuperJerms
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 		tanks. I had seen and read all of that before, but wasn't sure what was spec and what was fact. And with what scumbag just said, I had read that too, but again not sure if it was a slight misquote of a bungie employee (actually saying they overlap in theme, not in story) or if he (scum) is right.

So anyway, I understand it that:
Steve and Gunsmithcat are saying that Halo = universe sans Marathon, and
Scumbag is saying that Halo = universe pre-Marathon (and that Durandal has fixed to not end apocalyptically).

ScumBag, I know you feel strongly about this. Do you have a link to the employee saying the two stories overlap?

edit: fixed my spelling
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:45 pm
Last edited by SuperJerms on Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Bobman
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Quote:
So basically Halo is Marathon revisited, but not really a sequel in the proper sense. More like a second draft



This is proably the best explanation of the relationship between halo and marathon that I've seen. Well spoken GunsmithCat Very Happy

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:45 pm
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GunsmithCat
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Bobman wrote:
Quote:
So basically Halo is Marathon revisited, but not really a sequel in the proper sense. More like a second draft



This is proably the best explanation of the relationship between halo and marathon that I've seen. Well spoken GunsmithCat Very Happy


Thanks!

I gotta say, I wish they would re-publish Marathon for Windows XP. Or let some mod group do it in an updated engine. There were Marathon mods for Unreal Tournament, but nothing really finished, multiplayer focued and I'm not sure if they were "approved".

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:03 pm
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Anton P. Nym
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GunsmithCat wrote:
I gotta say, I wish they would re-publish Marathon for Windows XP. Or let some mod group do it in an updated engine. There were Marathon mods for Unreal Tournament, but nothing really finished, multiplayer focued and I'm not sure if they were "approved".

Ask and ye shall receive, kinda:

http://eternal.psyjnir.net/

That's the home page for an Aleph One mod that extends the Marathon game engine out about as far as it can go. New high-res textures, new mp3-based sounds, new 2.5D sprites (yes, there are limits with what you can do with a ten-year-old engine) and an entire new single-player campaign that will finish at 36 levels, IIRC.

I haven't finished Marathon/M2 yet, so I haven't tried it, but the Marathon Story Page forum quite enjoys it. And you can't beat the price. Smile

-- Steve's finding Marathon to be a harder play than Halo. Heckuva story, too.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:20 pm
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GunsmithCat
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Anton P. Nym wrote:
GunsmithCat wrote:
I gotta say, I wish they would re-publish Marathon for Windows XP. Or let some mod group do it in an updated engine. There were Marathon mods for Unreal Tournament, but nothing really finished, multiplayer focued and I'm not sure if they were "approved".

Ask and ye shall receive, kinda:

http://eternal.psyjnir.net/

That's the home page for an Aleph One mod that extends the Marathon game engine out about as far as it can go. New high-res textures, new mp3-based sounds, new 2.5D sprites (yes, there are limits with what you can do with a ten-year-old engine) and an entire new single-player campaign that will finish at 36 levels, IIRC.

I haven't finished Marathon/M2 yet, so I haven't tried it, but the Marathon Story Page forum quite enjoys it. And you can't beat the price. Smile

-- Steve's finding Marathon to be a harder play than Halo. Heckuva story, too.


sweet!

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:29 pm
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Atoner
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Anton P. Nym wrote:

I haven't finished Marathon/M2 yet, so I haven't tried it, but the Marathon Story Page forum quite enjoys it. And you can't beat the price. Smile

-- Steve's finding Marathon to be a harder play than Halo. Heckuva story, too.


You're a "chief Bungieologist" and you've not finished Marathon 1/2/Infinity? Who gave you your diploma? Shocked I thought you wrote Enkidu -- now I am seriously confused!

To be fair, I did first play Halo about 2 years after its initial release... Embarassed

I've played the Marathon games repeatedly since they came out for the Mac, and they still stand out in my memory as some of my all-time favorites. Back then, telling such a story of such depth was positively unheard of in a First Person Shooter, and most PC/Console gamers don't know that Bungie was a pioneer in that arena.

I personally subscribe to the theory that the Halo universe is one of many spun-out from Durandal's actions at the closing of the original Marathon universe. I guess I like this theory most because it allows the Cortana Letters to stay semi-canonical (how Cortana is aware of Durandal, for instance) and it allows for a lot of the symmetry between Marathon/Halo.

-Atoner-

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:26 pm
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Anton P. Nym
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Atoner wrote:
You're a "chief Bungieologist" and you've not finished Marathon 1/2/Infinity? Who gave you your diploma? Shocked I thought you wrote Enkidu -- now I am seriously confused!


Heh. Smile When I joined, I thought I was the only Bungiologist here... though that changed rather quickly.

As far as Big E goes... I did a lot of homework. (Thanks again, Hamish, for the story page!) Had to; I didn't really know Bungie existed until October 2003 when HaloPC came out.

-- Steve will now pause for the night to let the shock wear off. And catch up *yawn* on sommmmm Drool zzzzzz...
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:40 pm
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Nova
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 		There is actually a Win95 version of Marathon 2. I believe it works under XP. I heartily recommend playing through it. Heck, I heartily recommend buying a Mac and playing through all three of them. Great, great games. Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:57 pm
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