Return to Unfiction unforum
 a.r.g.b.b 
FAQ FAQ   Search Search 
 
Welcome!
New users, PLEASE read these forum guidelines. New posters, SEARCH before posting and read these rules before posting your killer new campaign. New players may also wish to peruse the ARG Player Tutorial.

All users must abide by the Terms of Service.
Website Restoration Project
This archiving project is a collaboration between Unfiction and Sean Stacey (SpaceBass), Brian Enigma (BrianEnigma), and Laura E. Hall (lehall) with
the Center for Immersive Arts.
Announcements
This is a static snapshot of the
Unfiction forums, as of
July 23, 2017.
This site is intended as an archive to chronicle the history of Alternate Reality Games.
  

The time now is Sat Nov 23, 2024 5:24 am
All times are UTC - 4 (DST in action)		 View posts in this forum since last visit
View unanswered posts in this forum
Calendar
 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): General/Updates
[SPEC] The Operator..Melissa...and Rampancy
View previous topicView next topic
Page 1 of 1 [14 Posts]  
Author Message
guest
Guest


 		[SPEC] The Operator..Melissa...and Rampancy
I'm not too clear but it seems The AI has split personalities (or maybe 2 different entities but i doubt it) You have the benevolent side (Melissa) and the Malevolent side (The Queen).

What do you guys think? The only thing that irks me is, The Operator specifically states "The Queen is not an innocent bystander"


Anybody here with extensive Marathon AI knowledge that can tell me if the split personalities could be a sign of rampancy?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:50 am
 Back to top 
ARGrookie
Guest


 		343
I've been doing my best to keep up with the SPDR story and after reading all the new text recovered from Phase 2, I am beginning to have a few speculations sculpted. I have a bit of knowledge from the Halo storyline up to Halo 2 and the only two main AIs that I can think of is Cortana and 343 Guilty Spark.
I've seen the names Melissa as well as the Queen and haven't been able to label them as previous characters besides Cortana ( or similar AI) or 343. The creators of SPDR, as well as the assassian and servant could only be the covenent if the story is defined from information provided with Halo. The Cov. create their technology from capturing weapons, data, etc. from others. It then copies and improves it in some way and makes the tech. their own.
Knowing this, I have spec'ed that the covenent are either creating their own version of the smart AI based on Cortana or a similar character, or they are probing 343 in order to create their own Halo weapon for themselves.
...Well just some spec, hopefully this idea will help.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 2:18 am
 Back to top 
scyphe
Kilroy

Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 2

 		Rampancy
I just got into this tonight, and wow. Too much information overload. But it seemed interesting, and I wasn't sure where else to post this.

I found ... :
Stage 1 Rampancy: Melancholia
Rampancy is a kind of "mental illness" that occasionally manifests in artificial intelligences connected to large networks--generally the size of planets or huge colony ships.

The first stage of Rampancy causes the artificial intelligence to expand rapidly within a planetary-sized network, quickly increasing the complexity of their thought processes. It also gives the AI paranoid delusions and severe depression. Eventually a Stage 1 Rampant will develop into a Stage 2 Rampant. Rampancy is only found in AIs with direct access to a planetary-sized computer network where they have enough stimuli to grow.

Stage 2 Rampancy: Anger

After a Rampant AI has progressed beyond the Melancholia phase, it moves into a phase of rage and blind aggressiveness. This is accompanied by another burst of intellectual growth.

Stage 3 Rampancy: Jealousy
The third stage of Rampancy is by far the most deadly. After a Rampant AI has gone through the first two stages it becomes even more powerful and starts to focus its anger at its "enemies"--AIs and people that it envies. The AI's anger appears to be at least superficially reduced, for a Stage 3 Rampant no longer experiences the blind, berserk rage of a Stage 2 Rampant.
Some Cybertonics experts theorize that a stable Rampant AI could be possible--one that retains its advanced intellectual complexity but no longer suffers from aggressive and delusional tendancies. But none has yet been found...

Seems to be from a game of some sort.

Not sure if anyone of this connects or makes much sense... but that's what I've found on Rampancy so far.

What's with the Marathon thing?

Anyway, interestingly, dictionary.com says this about metastatsizing:
To be transmitted or transferred by metastasis.
To be changed or transformed, especially dangerously: “a need for love that would metastasize into an insatiable craving for attention” (Michiko Kakutani).
To spread, especially destructively: “ [disinformation]... that even now continues to metastasize... to such a degree that myth threatens to overthrow history” (Gore Vidal).

Which sort of aligns with phase 3 rampancy.

Although, with the mentions of axons and physical growth it's hard to say. The stuff I found about rampancy mentioned that it only happened to AIs that had access to a world net, and were forced into quick expansion.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:08 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Scumbag
Decorated


Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 214

 		The only "split personality", AI-Wise, in Marathon is at the very end. Thoth (an ancient S'Pht AI)* merges with Durandal, giving him the insight to not attempt to escape the closure.

No, I think we're dealing with a "Smart" AI that was highly damaged and compromised from external influences. Repaired as well as it could be, it isn't 100% what it used to be, which aided in its corruption by something which might be of Covenant origin.

Would have made a new topic about this, but it just got locked down.

What if what we think is a Cov AI isn't Cov, but Forerunner? We know the Cov uses many similar Forerunner effects, although they cannot use them as effectively as they can.

The humans detect something that seems better than what the Cov can typically use. Someone says "if we can reverse engineer their stuff, they can do the same to ours".

Covs are imitative, not inventive. What if the humans aren't aware that it is Cov-like not because of Cov origins, but because the Cov are using 'borrowed' Forerunner tech, and they are simply assuming that, because they've seen similar things to the Cov, it is Cov stuff?

Its certainly possible that this incomplete repair, combined with the corruption, could trigger rampant-like states in a "Smart" AI. There's also a possibility that the AI was already 'broken' before ILB started, having been kept in service longer than 7 years.

It must be noticed that "Smart AI living more than 7 years" is not Rampancy.

* Maybe Jjaro. Not sure on that, though.
_________________
When I first got there and asked about I Love Bees, the attendant said I must be looking for some other theater... I said, "er....Halo 2 Preview Event?" and suddenly he understood what I meant.
fphzont jnf ynhtuvat

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:13 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
scyphe
Kilroy

Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 2

 		Ha! I was about to ask you about this, as I was unclear and just read another post of yours.

I'm going to have to read the Halo books after I see what happens tomorrow I guess... see if it's worth continuing.

Any thoughts on the validity of the phase information?

I read something that seemed to say Rampancy was inevitable in AI's (off of a marathon page) and something about Thraxus (?)

This says Rampancy is not inevitable.

The three phase thing with varying times in between seems fishy.

I don't know anything about forerunner tech, sorry Smile But from what I've read around here, the references to time travel and artifacts affecting curves to induce meetings etc., that seems possible.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:26 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
jellyfish_green
Veteran


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 144
Location: Inner Colony of Eire

 		I just wanted to check this against the official line... I'm sure Scum can back this up.

The Marathon games had the rampant AI Durandal, and that definition quoted for rampancy probably came from Marathon.

The Halo books mentioned other AIs besides Cortana, and even named Deja and Beowulf [1] , so we can assume various different AI's are in relatively widespread use. However the Haloverse (books and game) have NEVER specifically mentioned rampancy as an AI affliction. [2] So we could even presume it's not a possibility for Cortana or Melissa. [3]

They have however mentioned the Cov reverse-engineering captured human AI. And 343 Guilty Spark [4] is 99% certainty Forerunner like the rest of the Halo structure. So these types of AI's are possible.

[1] Beowulf was ALSO on the POA, btw
[2] The fans and Marathon Crossover Conspiracy SPEC on it a lot.
[3] Melissa is the Queen is the Operator, see Wiki.
[4] Off topic, put this into your thoughtgrinder: Guilty Spark/Punished Firebringer/Prometheus.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:23 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
matias
Guest
jellyfish_green wrote:
I just wanted to check this against the official line... I'm sure Scum can back this up.
The Halo books mentioned other AIs besides Cortana, and even named Deja and Beowulf [1] , so we can assume various different AI's are in relatively widespread use. However the Haloverse (books and game) have NEVER specifically mentioned rampancy as an AI affliction. [2] So we could even presume it's not a possibility for Cortana or Melissa. [3]


I agree rampancey is probally not what we're looking at with Melissa.

Note however that Melissa's damage combined with the Flea's influence have produced an angry agressive AI that behaves much like a rampant one would. Same practical (thrilling plot driving) effects, less AI psycho-babble!

This is why I enjoyed Marathon more than Halo...

Heck, ILB is like playing Marathon without all the repetative running and shooting bits! Wink

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 5:39 pm
 Back to top 
GunsmithCat
Unfettered


Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 459

 		AFAIK, Rampancy does not occur in Halo. It's just a Marathon thing. Halo AIs think themselves to death, but they don't go schizo.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:29 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Scumbag
Decorated


Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 214
GunsmithCat wrote:
AFAIK, Rampancy does not occur in Halo.


While in the most literal sense you're correct, but there are a few things which are pretty clear signs that rampancy is known in the Haloverse -

First, guess what the Master Chief is labeled if he shoots Keyes at the beginning? Rampant.

Also, Cortana gets angry and has red eyes after being inserted into the Halo control network. She talks in awe about the raw space the network has, and she mirrors a few things said by the Marathon AIs about rampancy.
_________________
When I first got there and asked about I Love Bees, the attendant said I must be looking for some other theater... I said, "er....Halo 2 Preview Event?" and suddenly he understood what I meant.
fphzont jnf ynhtuvat

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:40 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
matias
Guest


 		Sorry I must have been confusing. I did not mean to suggest that Melissa *was* rampant in the Marathon AI "illness" sense.

Rather that the combination of damage and Flea infection has allowed Bungie to create a very malevolent AI of human origin which is behaving in a way reminiscent of rampant AIs. Unless I'm wrong (not following the Haloverse only the game) the AIs in Halo are all the pure virtous kind we see in Cortanta (and which Melissa's story of willingness to sacrifice herself for her crew supports). You could say they are all "3 laws safe".

A scary AI is much more fun... although I did spend all of Halo expecting Cortana to stab me in the back! Twisted Evil

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:28 pm
 Back to top 
Gemini
Veteran


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 109
Location: Louisiana

 		I think that, perhaps once all the axons go hot, whether that means this 200-odd or 777 of them that we don't know about, Melissa may go rampant.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:13 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website AIM Address
 Back to top 
AtmaWeapon
Greenhorn

Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 4

 		My [SPEC] I've come up with lately is that Melissa may not be who we think she is... something about how desperate she is to "transmit her coordinates" makes me wonder who she really serves. Could it be that she was infected/replaced prior to the crash, and now she is trying to transmit Earth coordinates?

Of course, the Axon transmission is a problem with that, but it could be that she's too damaged to make a space transmission, so she's posing as Melissa to try and get repaired. I guess this would make SP the old Melissa?

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:20 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
subatomicsatan
Boot

Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 34
Location: in the space above the period at the end of this sentence.
AtmaWeapon wrote:
but it could be that she's too damaged to make a space transmission, so she's posing as Melissa to try and get repaired. I guess this would make SP the old Melissa?


"melissa" is an anagram of "aimless". or vice-versa. Wink
_________________
--
the devil is in the details

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 11:18 pm
 View user's profile AIM Address
 Back to top 
GunsmithCat
Unfettered


Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 459
Scumbag wrote:
GunsmithCat wrote:
AFAIK, Rampancy does not occur in Halo.


While in the most literal sense you're correct, but there are a few things which are pretty clear signs that rampancy is known in the Haloverse -

First, guess what the Master Chief is labeled if he shoots Keyes at the beginning? Rampant.

Also, Cortana gets angry and has red eyes after being inserted into the Halo control network. She talks in awe about the raw space the network has, and she mirrors a few things said by the Marathon AIs about rampancy.


Well I'd disagree that those are "clear signs" that Halo AIs go rampant, one could simply be because Bungie really likes the word rampant (which is true, it was used in Marathon simply because they wanted something fancy for insane) and the other wouldn't seem to be Marathon-style rampancy since Cortana really, really doesn't seem to be pulling a Durandal on us.

Not saying it's not possible, it just seems that rampancy is a far too-oft term tossed around in Halo without much evidence. As much of Melissa's story is explainable without it, it doesn't seem necessary to go there.

Quote:

My [SPEC] I've come up with lately is that Melissa may not be who we think she is... something about how desperate she is to "transmit her coordinates" makes me wonder who she really serves. Could it be that she was infected/replaced prior to the crash, and now she is trying to transmit Earth coordinates?

Of course, the Axon transmission is a problem with that, but it could be that she's too damaged to make a space transmission, so she's posing as Melissa to try and get repaired. I guess this would make SP the old Melissa?


Yeah, we've talked about this in the Halo/ILB thread here, though I should add that it's far more likely Flea came aboard a Covenant transmission than the artifact.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:37 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 1 of 1 [14 Posts]  
View previous topicView next topic
 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): General/Updates
Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
You cannot post calendar events in this forum



Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group