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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): General/Updates
[QUESTION] Stupid_cop's treatment of Jan makes no sense...?
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chaotic_mind
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Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 325
Location: Inside my head, behind the eyes

I think we can't forget J squared connection here. Jan is called the "walkaway girl". How do you think she earned that nickname? Probably because she has a high profile father who continually uses his power and influence to bust her out of hard places.

Further, why would the MPs tell the cops about the jump? I agree it's odd that the MPs just drop Jan in police custody, but I think that may be evidence of political manueverings in the chain of command. Someone wanted Jan to be analyzed, and the best lab was in the police station.

As to the weird way the cop acts, I don't think he was going for straight intimidation. The cop seems to be trying to unsettle Jan by constantly shifting tone. One second he's being confessory, the next he's being hostile. I just think he's trying to shake Jan's self-control so she can't beat the quiz.

Luke P.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 3:09 pm
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Max Damage
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Joined: 24 Jul 2004
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The reason she was in the military base to begin with was to help bail out Dwaynes dad. Dwayne had taken his dads gate pass, and he, and a few other high-schoolers, went and stole a military transport (Razorback class) and went and drove it into a ditch while joyriding. If it was that gate pass that was found to be the problem, Dwaynes dad would have been in big trouble, so she went to sneak it back into the base - unfortunately, the alarms went off due to the power outage, and the guards noticed her.

Yes, she has ninja skills, but she was in there just to help out a fellow ordinary high-school friend. Her methods may have been sneaky, but she was largely innocent, so they let the ordinary police handle it. Plus, Dwayne's dad recognized her, and probably found out that she was there to bail him out anyway - he's likely in a barrel of trouble, but she was trying to help him. Her heart is in the right place, if not her brain.

Listen to the full story in order here. - And for the last time, YES, these are in the right order. There is no other order that they could possibly go in without causing errors and glitches in the sound that would break continuity.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 3:12 pm
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Danzilla76
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Joined: 03 Aug 2004
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voipme wrote:
Actually, its not really that strange. In the long run, did she steal anything? Destroy anything? Resist arrest? No, she fully cooperated when the sentry caught up to her. The military members were just following protocol. The treatment of her makes sense to me, as in the long run, all she did was jump off of a building.


That's the funniest damn thing anyone's said on these boards in awhile.
"all she did was jump off a building"
As if that wasn't a big deal!!!
I'm not saying the comment was stupid-funny though. Just very humorous. It shows how connected she is that she can get out of everything she does.
That's why I think she's called "The Walkaway Girl." Not only does Dad get her out of predicaments, but she can physically do anything and walk away from it.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 3:57 pm
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truegent
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Joined: 21 Aug 2004
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Location: CO, USA

Although a stretch, I think it is believable.

If you 'follow' her in her flight, she is just by he motor pool (not some super secret area) and runs up to the roof, jumps down and is caught. Minus the three story jump not all that exciting of a getaway. The MP picks her up and questions her. As she tells them (per the PQI segments) that she was there on a dare (Dwayne's Dad is there perhaps and she still is trying to protect him). Nothing is stolen and no one killed. Heck she even has a legitimate reason for having access to the base (if not that particular area). They take her to the Police station to do the tests as the final part of the booking process. JJ pulls some strings and gets release papers for Jan and discovered that (horror) they have taken her off base to get blood/urine work done. He rushes of to get her (probably organizing the 'cleanup' with his Unit on the way) and picks her up just as the PQI is getting interesting.

The bit that stands out for me is:
Quote:
Frank: That's the reason they call her the "walkaway girl" man.

Once Frank realizes that it is Jan you can see from his attitude that he no is no longer interested in even trying to get her. He is only commenting on her from that point on. He even has a nickname for her, so this may be a more common event then the audio we have lets on. The problem is that this time she gets off base and civilians (not directly controllable by SSF/Daddy) get involved and 'cleanup' is needed.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:03 pm
Last edited by truegent on Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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truegent
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Joined: 21 Aug 2004
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Danzilla76 wrote:
"all she did was jump off a building"
As if that wasn't a big deal!!!

Keep In mind that we do not know HOW she jumped down. One file ends with "She jumped!" and the next we hear "she's getting up". She could have jumped, grabbed a power line, swung to the fence top (tall but not three stories) and jumped to the ground. Acrobatic but not super-human. She has been living with this power for who know how long, but I would suspect that she has come up with ways to 'hide' her super human actions in a way that makes them *look* improbable, but not impossible.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:09 pm
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TheCelestrian
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Location: San Diego

Good Questions, let me SPEC on it

This is an excellent question, particularly regarding her treatment and the condition of her "lockdown." Let me try to speculate on this and I'll let see if we can come to a consesus:

As it has already been established, the MP took Jan to the Police Station because they had Labs on site, which would make sense considering Jan's superhuman feats of speed and jumping from a three story rooftop.

I do think you are right when it comes to her needing to be under "maximum security" and I think that there is evidence on the clips to support your hypothesis. When Jan's father arrives at the station, where a slide door open and another office tell him:
Quote:
"I'm reaquired to inform you that the Door will log your ID."


This could imply that there is a higher level of security when family members of "the suspect" must have their identity logged for the purposes of a visit/and or to pick up the officer.

However, as with all speculation, we do not have enough evidence from the tape to made a determination of whether or not Jan is being treated differently than any other suspect the police station recieves.

As far as the cop being "imcompetant" and treating her like an average suspect, I disagree. I feel the officer is following a procedure that many polygraph test administrators use, and through I am not an expert, I think it goes something like this:

  • Establish a Baseline -
    This is done by asking a series of easy answer or "control" questions, where the answers to the questions are known, or are phrased in a way where there is no pressure in hiding the "truth".

    • "You gonna get in trouble for this? (Yes) Mom or Dad? (...Dad)"
      A very easy question, and something that the officer knows will probably not require much thought. Once the officer get's the dad answer he replies under his breath:

      "Oooo There's a nice a baseline."

  • Check the baseline with a "Second Level" Question -
    This is still part of his "warm up." I speculate that he knows this question will be answered without the same "honesty" as the baseline questions, but is using this to gauge her physiological and cerebral responses when asked a question that could possibly incriminate her.

    • "What were you doing in a restricted area?"

      The interesting part about this though is that she does not answer the question, but gives an answer that technically is true.

      "I already told the MP's... (blah blah blah...)"

      The officer, however, picks up on this, and clarifies the question. He then askes other questions like,

    • "Were you aware that a vehicle from the base motor pool was taken and found in a ditch outside of town a while ago?"

      Her answer is, "Really?" Which again is a non-answer, and can be used to disquise any physiological or cerebral indicators of deceipt as another response/emotion. However the officer again picks up on this and presses her to answer "Yes or No."

      At this point it could be surmized that he's dealth with similar characters before...

      He asked asgain, where she gives a glib "You just told me" and he askes again, more irritated. Once again she answers with a question. At this point he go to the next step....


  • Third level questions: Change Focus and direction -
    The officer now realizes he is not dealing with "just some kid." Granted, he does not know exactly what she is, but he recognizes that Jan has at best a chip on her shoulder, or as is begining to suspect, the knowledge and intellegence to beat a PQI.

    For the officer, this is where his job begins. And more to the point of your question, as I know you're curious, his job is to find out the truth. He does not have any first hand evidence that she is a spy, or some military operative. Therefore it's his job to try to find out what can, and if possible, what she may or may not be hiding about her tresspassing.

    Therefore, he completely changes directions of the questions, bringing the focus from the incident to her thought about him:

    • "Are you too smart to be caught by stupid cop?"
      This is where he get's his first "hit," a suspicious change in her baseline patterns, which I would speculate if the PQI is inspired from a polygraph, could be an indicator that she *might* be trying to hide something.

      He makes a note of this as a "little skew from baseline." He also seems to recognize the pattern and asks her if she knows that people know how to beat the PQI.

      He then flips back to his line of questioning, hoping that the change in direction will force a more "honest" reading from her:
    • You were drinking? (...wha?) You and your buddies.... etc"

      He does this a few times, and when she stalls, he then kicks into the final stage:

  • Increase the speed of questions, maintain focus shifts -
    The officer most likely has surmized that she's pretty good at hiding stuff when she wants, but now he's gonna try to see if he can make her trip up (in this case trip up is give a true reading of "yes or no") by depriving her of what she has been able to do up until this point: Control the pace of the interrogation.

    It is her that he gets his first good hits, because now Jan does not have time to think or calm her physiological responses.

However, it is here that Jan's dad arrives and cuts the PQI short.

Given this speculation (as that is all this is), I doubt the cop felt he could intimidate her. In fact, I think he was all to aware of that fact, which he even says when her dad "makes her nervous":

"Now of the sudden you're nervous about something?"

In the dialogue, the Officer admits he's not smart like Jan, but he is good at his job, and I agree with him. Until Jan's dad arrived, he had achieved everything that his job had required him to do, which I would guess includes all of those points, which then in turn goes to his bigger goal.

To seek and reveal the truth.

...but I'm not done yet. Wink

The next question is "Why did they just let her go after the 'usual' blood alcohol/urine tests"

The most obvious sticking point in this question is that we are assuming that Jan did in fact take those tests. We do not have any first hand conversation that indicates this supposition. For all we know, Mr. James may have made a call to his superiors in "SSF" and they get a call from the MP's telling her to let her go.

How this ties into the Military procedure is anyone's guess, as we are merely looking into a tiny porthole of this world, and do not have any reference for the military laws of this universe. They might have her tracked, as the other conversations illude to this being possible, but the main problem remains; We have so little information to work with that we can not be entirely sure why the police released her and what the police did or did not find out.

She might have finished the PQI, and Jan's statement in the car that "She best the stupid test," could taken as support for that.

I say this for two reasons:

  • Jan's dad asks where the waiting room is - This is biggest indicator that a signifant amount of time passed from the end of the conversation and the "drive home conversation."
  • The "Law" does not require a lawyer present for a PQI, despite Jan's dad's wishes - It could be inferred that while Jans dad was there, and he wanted him to stop, "if your gonna give my kid a pop quiz, I'd like there to a lawyer present." The officer than gives him the business that he doesnt have to, and quite possible, he has quite a few more questions to ask.

    Assuming this is true, then Jan's dad did the best thing he could have for Jan, break the rhythm of the interrogation and give Jan a chance to regroup and refocus to beat the rest of the PQI.


At this point, we now have a couple of possible logic statements to work with:

  • Jan beat the PQI
  • The officer could not find any indication Jan was lying.
  • Jan claimed she was in restricted space on a stupid dare from her friends.
  • Jan was not aware that a vehicle was stolen.
  • Jan and her friends were most likely drinking.
  • There is no evidence Jan was in possesion of military intelligence.
  • Preliminary tests indicated nothing to incriminate Jan*
  • The MP released Jan to civilian police because they had a lab onsite.

    *This does not mean there was no evidence than Jan's dad considered a risk for her and others due to her being _________, but just that there was nothing that gave the officer legal reason to detain her.


So now, we can play another game of supposition with these statements:

Let's work on The MP released Jan to civilian police because they had a lab onsite. If we were to apply some of the basic legal concepts of our own system (and therby opening this to debate), it could be argued that once she was released to civilian custody, that the military no longer has jursdiction over her, and therefore civilian laws of detention could apply.

Based on that, let's humor myself and add another statement:

  • Jan now is subject to civilian law in her local area.


If we take that as "fact" then she might have to be released, even oif the officer feels she should be detained, but does not have any evidence of her maliciously trying to break the law.

....and we all know kids will be kids Wink Wink

Im sure noone will read all of this, and this more for my own speculation of documentation, but have fun.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:13 pm
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Moe The Sleaze
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Joined: 25 Aug 2004
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I'm not saying that the MP would be concerned over her trespassing, but instead how she achieved her trespassing.

Sneaking over a fence is no big deal, but disappearing from surveillance, hiding on the ceiling and jumping down three stories without injury. That would spawn some investigation.

Then again, they do refer to her as the walkaway girl. That would imply that they know of her. What do we think about that?

PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:37 pm
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Nova
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 529
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Jan is sent to the police station by the MPs because they want tests run on her after seeing what she can do. It seems that the cop interrogating her has no idea about her walljumping antics, and is simply told that she was trespassing on the base.

Jan's dad later comes along and berates himself for not 'containing' the situation - ie, not managing to get there in time to take Jan from the MPs custody before they delivered her to the police. The cops don't know anything about her abilities, but they may find out from the results of their testing.

She's fairly obviously part of some sort of special project, of which "James" is a supervisor/leader of some sort, and the MPs didn't know any better so they sent her to a civilian lab for testing. Obviously if she's part of some covert experiment the military would want to keep that a secret, which is why James takes her back into custody and burns down the police station.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:43 pm
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chaotic_mind
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I agree it spawned some investigation. But that investigation is then halted or redirected by shadowy higher ups in the chain of command. The matter is dropped, though base gossip is taken up with the "supergirl" for the next few days.

I don't think that the MPs meant "walkaway girl" to mean "physically superadroit", otherwise why would they be so surprised as she continually evades pursuit.

Meanwhile, events might be manipulated so Jan gets dropped off at the PD for a simple blood and urine test. The MPs are told that she could be drunk or on drugs. But, in actuallity, *someone* wants to figure out what Jan is.

JJ arranges the PD fire and AI blanking to destroy the results of the blood and urine test.

Luke P.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:47 pm
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krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 26 Sep 2002
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Max Damage wrote:
Plus, Dwayne's dad recognized her, and probably found out that she was there to bail him out anyway - he's likely in a barrel of trouble, but she was trying to help him. Her heart is in the right place, if not her brain.


Excellent point. Heh! Nice summation, Max Damage. Actually, nice posts so far in this whole thread.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:55 pm
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Max Damage
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Joined: 24 Jul 2004
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Moe The Sleaze wrote:
Then again, they do refer to her as the walkaway girl. That would imply that they know of her. What do we think about that?


When I hear 'walkaway girl' I think to when they mention that she's the local high-school heartbreaker.

When a guy looks at her, the correct response is "Walk away, man. Walk away."

Now THAT is wild spec, but it's just what springs to mind at first. Almost certainly wrong, but I think we're over-obsessing over something. We know that..

A: She's hot.
B: She's popular at high-school.
C: Probably the target of many boys affections. "Knows her? He probably keeps a photo of her under his pillow." Jersey Morelli even asks for pictures of her.

So yeah. She's just known as a highly attractive, athletic high-school girl, who's dad is supposed to be ex military intelligence.. Supposed to be - he certainly seems to be on active duty here.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:28 pm
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