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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): Puzzles
[SPEC] The Tower, The Mirror
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Sep7imus
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Joined: 26 Jul 2004
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 		This strikes me as so obvious that it may be trout, but could the "Tower" refer to the CPU itself? As opposed to a desktop or a laptop, a tower (vertical) design?

[SILLY SPEC] Maybe Dana is a Mac user and the "mirror" refers to the mirrored surface ont he drives of certain models of G5s Confused .
-Sep7imus
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:16 pm
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Andy
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
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Shadowkiller wrote:
I think it is quite possible that the message may contain more then one clue. The recipe1, 2 and 4 thing has been sitting there for awhile. I don't think it was just suddently done, I think the SP gave the hint because those Axons had been completely missed. I wonder what else has been missed.


I had been checking the recipe 3 page regularly, I'm pretty sure those axons weren't there until SP told us to look.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 2:00 pm
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kalamazoo
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 		Here's what I think:

1) The Tower must be a router that the Queen uses to communicate elsewhere. Why? Because she is using it to build the 'roads', i.e., the paths that lead to payphones around the country. The 'window' is the software she can use to make those communications: some VoIP thingermabobber.

2) I agree with the description of the pair of twisting staircases as the twisted pair of lines used to communicate with this router from the Castle (i.e., the ILB server).

3) In IP systems, there is such a thing as a 'loopback' address (127.0.0.1), such that things coming from *inside* a computer come through the IP protocols as if they were coming from *outside*. That is, even though your software is looking *out*, it can see things that are behind it, *inside* the computer.

Just like the Queen's Mirror, eh?

4) As to the capitalized words in SP's post, I don't know that they mean anything -- but if they do, they do sort of hang together well as a sentence, without any modification. They sound like English spoken by a foreign speaker. Perhaps a Mandarin speaker? What Chinese symbols would that translate to?

PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 2:53 pm
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NMZ
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Joined: 27 Aug 2004
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Location: Minnesota
kalamazoo wrote:
3) In IP systems, there is such a thing as a 'loopback' address (127.0.0.1), such that things coming from *inside* a computer come through the IP protocols as if they were coming from *outside*. That is, even though your software is looking *out*, it can see things that are behind it, *inside* the computer.

Just like the Queen's Mirror, eh?


That's a very good obvserfaction. I think the whole router idea makes a lot of sense with what SP describes, though I did have another idea. Perhaps instead of it being a router, it's another computer alltogether.

Quick question here -- did they (Melissa, SP, et al) crash onto Dana's computer (the one with the webcam hooked up), or the ILB server? Is that the same computer?

If they crashed onto the ILB webserver (this one makes the most sense to me), then perhaps the Castle is Dana's computer hooked up via ethernet (but NOT through a router). This makes sense to me, as the window would be the webcam, the staircase would be the ethernet wire, and the mirror would be the described "loop back address." One possible discrepancy in this theory is that they may have had access to the webcam before the Queen found the castle. Does anyone know the order of discovery of the Castle, the Webcam, and the Website?

If they crashed onto Dana's personal computer, the Castle could be the ILB server or a router (which is also connected to the ILB server). This makes less sense to me because they had pretty much immediate access to the website after they crashed.

If Dana's personal computer is also used as the ILB webserver, then we can explain why they had access to both the website and the webcam before finding the castle. One of the problems with this theory is that it's just plain stupid to use your personal computer as a webserver for a website.. especially one as popular as ILB (because of reboots and possible crashes. The more you use a computer, the more likely it is to crash, so leaving servers alone as much as possible is the best way to go). Then we also have to wonder what the Castle is... possibly a router.

My vote goes with the first if -- they crashed onto the server and the Castle is Dana's personal computer.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:55 pm
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grimcat
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 		Questions:

Has anyone tried to see if perhaps the webcam has a presence on the web?

Has anyone tried to look at the robots.txt file of the site (Alderaad inspired this one)?

I like the idea of the mirror being 127.0.0.1. It seems to fit very well.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:16 pm
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Elec
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NMZ wrote:


If Dana's personal computer is also used as the ILB webserver, then we can explain why they had access to both the website and the webcam before finding the castle. One of the problems with this theory is that it's just plain stupid to use your personal computer as a webserver for a website.. especially one as popular as ILB (because of reboots and possible crashes. The more you use a computer, the more likely it is to crash, so leaving servers alone as much as possible is the best way to go). Then we also have to wonder what the Castle is... possibly a router.


It is my opinion that this is the case. While we have established that ILB is hosted at Rackspace, I consider this to be META. As far as the story goes, ILB was a small, personal business website and I believe Dana implied that it was being hosted on her or her Aunt's computer. So while the reality is that a web site hosted on a PC with a DSL connection would have gone down real fast under the traffic that site has seen, disbelief can be suspended for the purposes of the story. Also remember that ILB was not a popular website before the problems (game) started. If you owned a small business and expected that the only traffic your website would get was from current customers and word of mouth, it wouldn't be unreasonable to host it yourself. That's why I consider Rackspace to be META - yes we know it's hosted there, but Dana has never said nor implied that she went and got big-shot hosting for the site, so I have to consider that to be behind-the-curtain, as it were.

I wish Dana had been a little more clear on her hardware setup, because it is a mystery as to how all these personalities got into her site in the first place. I vote for either A) she had a wireless connection up that Melissa could reach or B) Melissa tapped the internet someplace else but was drawn to the bee theme of the site for reasons not yet 100% clear. Either way, it's my opinion that, in-game, ILB is hosted on Dana's PC.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:22 pm
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NMZ
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Elec wrote:
NMZ wrote:


If Dana's personal computer is also used as the ILB webserver, then we can explain why they had access to both the website and the webcam before finding the castle. One of the problems with this theory is that it's just plain stupid to use your personal computer as a webserver for a website.. especially one as popular as ILB (because of reboots and possible crashes. The more you use a computer, the more likely it is to crash, so leaving servers alone as much as possible is the best way to go). Then we also have to wonder what the Castle is... possibly a router.


It is my opinion that this is the case. While we have established that ILB is hosted at Rackspace, I consider this to be META. As far as the story goes, ILB was a small, personal business website and I believe Dana implied that it was being hosted on her or her Aunt's computer. So while the reality is that a web site hosted on a PC with a DSL connection would have gone down real fast under the traffic that site has seen, disbelief can be suspended for the purposes of the story. Also remember that ILB was not a popular website before the problems (game) started. If you owned a small business and expected that the only traffic your website would get was from current customers and word of mouth, it wouldn't be unreasonable to host it yourself. That's why I consider Rackspace to be META - yes we know it's hosted there, but Dana has never said nor implied that she went and got big-shot hosting for the site, so I have to consider that to be behind-the-curtain, as it were.

I wish Dana had been a little more clear on her hardware setup, because it is a mystery as to how all these personalities got into her site in the first place. I vote for either A) she had a wireless connection up that Melissa could reach or B) Melissa tapped the internet someplace else but was drawn to the bee theme of the site for reasons not yet 100% clear. Either way, it's my opinion that, in-game, ILB is hosted on Dana's PC.


I agree with you partly. I was trying to imply that, even in-game, hosting a business website on the same computer you use to browse the internet, play games, use a webcam, etc. is probably not a good idea, and Dana seems to know a good amount about computers and webhosting. Unfortunately, I don't know an extensive amount about that, so perhaps I'm wrong in this assumption.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 10:32 pm
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persimmon8
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 		Castle
Pardon me if this is obvious, but CASTLE is the codename for the ONI research facility on the planet Reach in the prequel Halo novel.

(I just started reading them yesterday to learn the backstory.)

- Per

PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 11:46 pm
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usernameguy
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 		About a home PC also hosting a website: if already you have DSL, getting the "static IP address" necessary to host a website is often cheaper than getting the website hosted at a colo. Yes, in the real world, the PM's are probably using a really expensive box to handle the hordes of ARG players. But in-game, the little "I Love Bees" site probably got 500 hits on a good day. And with a modern operating system, hosting a website on your home PC doesn't really put it in much danger.

If I were Dana, I'd host the site at home.

Also, I have one hesitation about labeling the Tower a twisted pair wire. Almost nothing in the modern PC uses twisted pair. It's mostly ribbons, coax, and cables nowadays. The only things that use twisted pair are power cables for LED's and USB patch cables, neither of which really have the bandwidth to support an AI going across them.

[META] 'Course, maybe the writer didn't realize that.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 1:04 am
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Worker
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Joined: 07 Oct 2003
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 		All of the new 'roads' so far have been communication to payphones. This communication is done over phonelines (maybe through a modem in Dana's computer), and those contain twisted pairs, much like network cables.

If the Queen is calling payphones over the internet, she's either able to use Dialpad-type software, or she's hacked AT&T. In either case, she's way too much power to still be stuck in Dana's computer.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:12 pm
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Nova
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
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Location: Frog blasting the vent core
usernameguy wrote:
Also, I have one hesitation about labeling the Tower a twisted pair wire. Almost nothing in the modern PC uses twisted pair. It's mostly ribbons, coax, and cables nowadays. The only things that use twisted pair are power cables for LED's and USB patch cables, neither of which really have the bandwidth to support an AI going across them.


Well, ethernet cabling and phone cabling uses twisted pair. We're receiving phone calls through phone lines, yeah?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 6:04 pm
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enkryption
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Joined: 29 Aug 2004
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 		[SPEC]Couldn't the "Castle" SP refers to actually be the server on which the site is run on? The kitchen reference is one of the best pieces of evidence to support this. Each "road" is actually a secret passage in the castle where we could spy on the Queen and PF, right? So each road is actually a URL on the website that isn't really referenced in the website itself, as we can see with recipe3 page. I know this might not make much sense right now, but it is something to think about.

I also believe that the tower where the Queen stays could be one of the deepest links in the website (think of index.html as the base of the castle and each link is a step up from the base) I don't really have an explanation for the twisted staircase though.

Sorry if this is trout! Wink

PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 6:41 pm
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johnny5
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Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 995
Location: Elysian Fields
kalamazoo wrote:
Here's what I think:

1) The Tower must be a router that the Queen uses to communicate elsewhere. Why? Because she is using it to build the 'roads', i.e., the paths that lead to payphones around the country. The 'window' is the software she can use to make those communications: some VoIP thingermabobber.

2) I agree with the description of the pair of twisting staircases as the twisted pair of lines used to communicate with this router from the Castle (i.e., the ILB server).

3) In IP systems, there is such a thing as a 'loopback' address (127.0.0.1), such that things coming from *inside* a computer come through the IP protocols as if they were coming from *outside*. That is, even though your software is looking *out*, it can see things that are behind it, *inside* the computer.

Just like the Queen's Mirror, eh?

4) As to the capitalized words in SP's post, I don't know that they mean anything -- but if they do, they do sort of hang together well as a sentence, without any modification. They sound like English spoken by a foreign speaker. Perhaps a Mandarin speaker? What Chinese symbols would that translate to?


Great SPEC!

I'll do you one better.

If you are on a switched network and want to see traffic on other ports, the common terminology is "mirror".

So the queen set up a mirror on the switch port that leads back to where the SP is, but she's on another machine.

--john--

PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:53 pm
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MeKiwi
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Joined: 30 Aug 2004
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Location: San Francisco
johnny_Nitro wrote:

Great SPEC!

I'll do you one better.

If you are on a switched network and want to see traffic on other ports, the common terminology is "mirror".

So the queen set up a mirror on the switch port that leads back to where the SP is, but she's on another machine.

--john--


Hmm, a mirror site, eh? Okay, so it's not *exactly* a mirror, but what about ilovebeer.org? Think there's a chance? ...

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 2:08 pm
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johnny5
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 		No, not a mirror site, mirrored traffic.

--john--

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 2:57 pm
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