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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): General/Updates
[SPEC] The Axons may not be simultaneous
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Mazian
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 529
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: Not simultaneous... But possibly... All part of one memo

HitsHerMark wrote:
...That's got to be it then

Firstly, I'd like to that Malissa might not be the one who did the spying... She doesn't know what these "voices in her head" are, she doesn't recognise them, that's why she's broadcasting to us. So we can help her figure them out.

Anyway...
The idea that these clips might not be happenening at exactly the same time, that each time "Durga" enters a system it causes a problem, is pretty cool.
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Hivekuts Timeline by Mazian, with linkage to transcripts/etc.

Someone else in that thread (several hours after your post in this thread) SPEC'd that these are non-simultaneous recordings. See the next post for my response.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:14 am
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GunsmithCat
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The more of the Hive-Ku's that we get, the less likely it seems there was a precipitating event.

I could sort of accept the first three, but now we're bordering on coincidence one side of wild. It's far too limiting to assume that these people would all be having exciting adventures that line up second by second, all with the precisely same start point. For one thing, Jan's story easily spans a few days if not much longer - Kamal's appears to take place around a night and the following day, and Jersey's you can fit into an entire afternoon.

Since we know now that Durga and Jersey seem to listening in on all of this, it doesn't seem necessary to tie them to some external event - they are all tied to Durga. It's not that these actions might not occupy some of the same space. Jan's "right" might take place around the time of Kamal's visit with Aiden. (Frustratingly Aiden asks for the time, doesn't get a response...)

We'll probably get more when we get another set of hidden axons revealed by Princess. Notice none of the ones on Hive-Ku are centered around GOM. Since the Apocalypso is our best bet for a precipitating event, hopefully we'll know more then. Personally, I'm hoping GOM = Morelli and they aren't on Earth, because it could help tie some things together.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 8:44 am
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noideaforausername
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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After that, noideaforausername wrote:
the widow, the flea and the princess could all be systems set to operate around her in case of damage, and represent the systems kicking in around Melissa, the 'voices' she hears in her system (unless we're sure these are the sound-files she's giving to us to figure out). But if so, could that be why we've got the Princess trying to communicate with us, being one of the systems or facets of Melissa.
Anyone follow? disagree? lining up a trout-swing?

We know that the "Widow", the System Peril Distributed Reflex (SPDR), is, in fact, a system set to operate in case of damage. It tried to repair her, though it apparently did a piss-poor job (some speculate that, if it hadn't been deleted, it would have gotten around to cleaning up its own mess in the end.) On the Flea, however, we're pretty sure it's not supposed to be there. Clearly the Flea is unwelcome and is corrupting Melissa; we currently believe that it is a spy AI sent by the Covenant.
As for the Sleeping Princess...to be honest we don't know. There are so many conflicting theories flying around that I'd need both hands to count them. She could be a part of Melissa, whether she was part of the original programming or something Melissa herself created when she realized she was possibly in danger; or she could be a separate AI, whether human or Covenant or Forerunner; or she could even be a physical, living person, or maybe a cyborg. It'll doubtless be a while before we have enough clues to say for certain and with one unanimous voice that the Sleeping Princess is (fillintheblank).[/quote]

thanks for clearing that up:) I got into this not long before the 24th of august, and have been studying the netninja wiki as well as trying to keep up with the forum.
i think, personally, i'm not conviced the Princess is a physical person. I'll probably be proved wrong, but i'm more keen to believe 'she' is a program or part of an AI running on the system.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:17 am
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JimmyJames
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I know this isn't necessarily in respect to the subject line, but it fits with the conversation and I'm trying to help reduce posts. I'll try and tie it in to the subject if I can.

One thing that doesn't make sense to me is how Durga could be listening in on the pre-incident conversations between Jan and the cop. She wasn't expecting it and wouldn't have initiated a recording and the cop certainly didn't want it recorded.

Possibly they have some kind of neural implants that allow a skilled program/hacker to basically enter their mind, similar to to those used by the military personal in in Halo, but I don't remember anything of that nature being mentioned yet.

Now there is one way to tie it together. Melissa remembers being on an ONI Spy Vessel (length 120 meters, crew 40, cover pleasure yacht). Also, these recordings are contained in Melissa's memories.

It's been brought up that she does not recognize these voices in her head, but that could be explained in that she was not completely restored when the Widow was deleted, stopping her reconstruction and therefore giving her a sort of amnesia where she still has the memories as they are data in her memory bank, but does not recognize them. This would put Melissa back in the story.

Another explanation is that this data was included in the package that ended up on the ILB server, but this data was not collected by Melissa. This would provide a path for Durga to be involved. However, if this is the case, what happened to Durga and how did these memories end up with Melissa. If Melissa is Durga, why then does she not recognize her own voice and why was she concerned about someone else listening in on her. That would lead to an unnamed third party.

This theory sounds good, but even if we didn't know who was listening in, we should at least be able to figure out why. The only plausible explanation at this point would be someone, with advanced technology, is spying on all of these people becuse of their activities and unique talents/abilities. As we are fairly certain this is tied into the Haloverse, the only two major players with this type of intent would be ONI and the Covenant.

The Covenant does not seem to make sense because they don't seem like they would care about information which did not present information regarding Forerunner artifacts or a way to rid the universe of Humankind.

Therefore, we're back to ONI. As stated previously, Melissa has a memory of an ONI spy vessel, and by the crew conversations in her memories, it would seem that she was on this vessel. I've said before that it would make sense that ONI would be interested in the people involved in the Axon Dialogues because of their activities and abilities. Durga, the sort of new player would also be something that would be watched, if ONI knew about her or had some way of alerting them to suspicious entities in the network, which from the books it seems they do.

Therefore, would it not make sense that Melissa was the AI on the ONI spy vessel, watching these people, and recording their activities? When I said that this is what she was doing "right" before she got sent here, I didn't mean an hour/day/week before. I believe this may have been part of her mission, to watch these individuals. Therefore, the key is not necessarily in the details of their stories, but the major themes included in all the stories. Only time will tell, but if my belief is that one or more major connecting events will be presented in the next set of axons. If not, I've heard that crow tastes like chicken, so it can't be all that bad! Very Happy
_________________
I got nuthin'.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:46 am
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Mazian
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
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Location: San Francisco, CA

JimmyJames wrote:
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One thing that doesn't make sense to me is how Durga could be listening in on the pre-incident conversations between Jan and the cop. She wasn't expecting it and wouldn't have initiated a recording and the cop certainly didn't want it recorded.
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If all the recordings start at the same time (i.e., the event that causes the power outage at the military base (jan james story), the introduction of durga to jersey's computer (jersey/durga story) and the CP failure at dinner (Kahmal/Hiro story)) then there are certain events referred to in the story we know so far, the precede these stories:


  1. Troy was evacuated three months previously, [SPEC] tying the CP failure in hello to the same event that launches the other stories. [/SPEC]
  2. Apocalypso entered lunar orbit [SPEC] before the strange events started [/SPEC]


It's reasonable SPEC, I think, that Troy was evac'd because of the Covenant. Based on previous transcripts of ship logs, there was advanced knowledge of the attack on Troy, because Earth forces could intercept and decipher Covenant communications.

[SPEC="non original"] The Apocalypso is that ship. That the virus it picked up was brought back to earth. That this virus precipitated the events that begin each story. [/SPEC]

[SPEC="wild"] Also, I think it's reasonable to assume that the CPA (i.e. Chatter Protocol Authority) could easily digitize and save all communications, if it wanted to. It's the present-day vulnerability of having a single authority run all of our communications systems. Durga could be digging up "old material" that was archived, but not flagged by standard AI's. I don't think that this is the case, but it's a possibility I guess.[/SPEC]

JimmyJames wrote:
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Now there is one way to tie it together. Melissa remembers being on an ONI Spy Vessel (length 120 meters, crew 40, cover pleasure yacht). Also, these recordings are contained in Melissa's memories.

It's been brought up that she does not recognize these voices in her head, but that could be explained in that she was not completely restored when the Widow was deleted, stopping her reconstruction and therefore giving her a sort of amnesia where she still has the memories as they are data in her memory bank, but does not recognize them. This would put Melissa back in the story.
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...If Melissa is Durga, why then does she not recognize her own voice and why was she concerned about someone else listening in on her. That would lead to an unnamed third party.
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Durga is "reflected" she "can't look at [herself]." Whenever she tries she "bounces away." [SPEC] If Melissa/Durga are the same, then it follows that she wouldn't recognize herself because of the reflected condition. This puts me in mind of Cortana in Halo: First Strike, except that she can't recognize herself. [/SPEC]

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:18 am
Last edited by Mazian on Thu Sep 02, 2004 4:49 pm; edited 2 times in total
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truegent
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Joined: 21 Aug 2004
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Location: CO, USA

Mazian wrote:

  1. Troy was evacuated a year previously,
  2. Apocalypso entered lunar orbit [SPEC] before the strange events started [/SPEC]

Where do you get this timeline from? We have no evidence of where (temporally) the SP files fit in relation to the Melissa files. However, even presuming they take place at the same time in Receipt GOM says that it is three months after he was evacuated from Troy.

Mazian wrote:
[SPEC="wild"] Also, I think it's reasonable to assume that the CPA (i.e. Chatter Protocol Authority) could easily digitize and save all communications, if it wanted to. It's the present-day vulnerability of having a single authority run all of our communications systems. Durga could be digging up "old material" that was archived, but not flagged by standard AI's. I don't think that this is the case, but it's a possibility I guess.[/SPEC]

This fits with my mental picture. Although it has been shown that Durga is indeed feeding these events to Jersey, certain phrasing and my gut feeling is that they are not in real-time. Specifically the first set in the Kemal thread has too much time passing in it to match up.

Kemal (~3 days):
Failed date
at least a day before the date with Sophie
At least 30 hours post Sophie date to the voice mail
(my guess) about a day from voice mail to ghosting

Jan (~4-5 hours):
Break-in(out?)
Minutes to Runaway Girl
At most an hour or two to Stupid Cop
Most likely less then an hour to the car conversation
(my guess) a few hours to the fire

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 4:38 pm
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Mazian
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truegent wrote:
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Where do you get this timeline from? We have no evidence of where (temporally) the SP files fit in relation to the Melissa files. However, even presuming they take place at the same time in Receipt GOM says that it is three months after he was evacuated from Troy.
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I corrected my original post (re 1 year to 3 months). Embarassed

I also added my [SPEC] to clarify why I think they're all interrelated. Not directly, but by virtue of the CP/power outage. (And I think all of this is somehow tied to, the result of, or caused by, Durga and the arrival of the Apocalypso.)

Basically the thing that all of these stories have in common, is their beginning. That is: something surpremely odd occuring with the CP/Power in each.

truegent wrote:
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This fits with my mental picture. Although it has been shown that Durga is indeed feeding these events to Jersey, certain phrasing and my gut feeling is that they are not in real-time. Specifically the first set in the Kemal thread has too much time passing in it to match up.
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Yes, and again we see time-lapsed CP tapping in the exclusive_license ... good_at_my_job. The clip split between these has to happen at least on the day after the final scene with Kamal/Hiro in dude.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 4:54 pm
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GunsmithCat
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Joined: 05 Aug 2004
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Mazian wrote:


I also added my [SPEC] to clarify why I think they're all interrelated. Not directly, but by virtue of the CP/power outage. (And I think all of this is somehow tied to, the result of, or caused by, Durga and the arrival of the Apocalypso.)


Here is the other problem I have with an outage being the connecting factor.

Durga's clearly in control here.

Why would she care some geek schmuck lost his signal during a bad date?

She wouldn't. She's following these people for a reason she's not aware of - that's what connects them all. These are people of some importance to whatever she is doing here.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 6:51 pm
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GunsmithCat
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OK, that whole "reason" thing could quickly derail this, so I reworded it into this.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 7:00 pm
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