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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): General/Updates
[SPEC] The Durga<->Melissa connection through time
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GunsmithCat
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Joined: 05 Aug 2004
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M.c.P wrote:

Alright, that's a stretch, but I still think we shouldn't rule out the theory that the Operator transmitted herself anywhere just yet.


I agree, I just think that the means in which she might have done that trick are an potentially important plot hole right now. I'm betting it's a Flea trick of some kind.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 12:45 am
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AngriBuddhist
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 		A few questions to livin' up the spec:

If the Operator transmitted herself off the ship, how could she remember
the crash of the ship?

Wasn't the "Queen" considered dead before the Spider started reviving her?
How do you transmit yourself if you are dead?

The crash woke up SP. Doesn't that imply that it also caused the time travel?
You can't time travel off a ship and then get woken up by the crash of the
ship later. Can you?

What are the chances of one AI transmitting herself through space and time
to a hobbiest website and to then have another AI knocked back in time (due
to a crash) and land on the same site?

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 11:40 pm
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Ceantari
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 		I'm curious about the rest of the Apocalypso's crew. Only five of the forty crewmembers were accounted for: Captain Green, First Lieutenant Rolf Sorenson, McKaskill, Midshipman Arrelts, and ONI Tech Kowalski. So, who are the thirtyfive?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:13 pm
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SecondSundodger
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 		I searched around as well as I could, but I'm sure y'all can imagine the numerous results I get when searching for anything relating to "Durga" or "Melissa". So though this is probably trout, I'm saying it anyway:

It seems to me the common spec is that at some point around the Apocalypso entering lunar orbit The Operator AI is broken into its Durga part (which remains in the future) and Melissa, which is somehow sent to our present time. Now while I still believe this (or something similar to this) is the most likely explanation, I read something on the hives.html page that made me consider another idea. Here is what I read:

Actually, as I write this I read over the things that made me think the way I was, and I realize that I was more misinterpreting things, and so now I am no long having the thought. So nevermind. But just for the sake of speculation, I'll state what I was thinking for a few minutes (before I disuaded myself)...

Just as a thought that I am no longer having: What if Durga and Melissa aren't co-existing as time-linked identities, but that Durga, after the Apocalypso crash and spending time with Jersey, comes to our present time and in doing so assumes her former Operator/Melissa identity (maybe as a part of some sort of fugue)? She's currently recording the .wavs in the future, and then somehow goes back in time to our present (and a future .wav we get will be of her traveling to our time, and she goes to ilovebees.com because she had just happened to be thinking a lot about bees recently).

I restate that I no longer agree with this thought I had, but I was thinking it a possibility for about 10 minutes or so, so I thought I'd still share it in case it sparks something that actually makes sense.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:40 am
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raw19
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AngriBuddhist wrote:
A few questions to livin' up the spec:

If the Operator transmitted herself off the ship, how could she remember
the crash of the ship?


I think she transmitted herself off as an evacuation off the ship. Therefore she can remember the crash, right up to the time she jumps ship.

AngriBuddhist wrote:

Wasn't the "Queen" considered dead before the Spider started reviving her?
How do you transmit yourself if you are dead?


She "died" during the transmission. Whatever process sent her back through time (and split her up, if you're on the "split AI" team) severely damaged her. She probably arrived in our time severely fragmented, and without the ability to put herself back together again (enter spdr).

AngriBuddhist wrote:

The crash woke up SP. Doesn't that imply that it also caused the time travel?
You can't time travel off a ship and then get woken up by the crash of the
ship later. Can you?


Either the original crash of the Apocalypso cracked the SP's coffin and woke her up, then both were transmitted through time,
or
The "crash" that woke the SP up was the crash landing of the AI onto ILB. Because the crash of the AI's was caused by the crash of the ship, they could be considered the same crash. (right?)

AngriBuddhist wrote:

What are the chances of one AI transmitting herself through space and time to a hobbiest website and to then have another AI knocked back in time (due to a crash) and land on the same site?


I'd go with nill. Melissa/Queen and the SP are connected somehow. I still [SPEC] that SP is Melissa's backup, but there are many other possibilities.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:47 am
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fyzle
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Quote:
I'd go with nill. Melissa/Queen and the SP are connected somehow. I still [SPEC] that SP is Melissa's backup, but there are many other possibilities.


When SP says the Queen had a mirror behind her/at the door etc. - and that the queen saw her, that suggests to me that the Queen is Dana's comp - since Dana had a mirror behind her and was looking at the Webcam (probably the SP's portal of vision)

bah it's prolly not right.

edit: now that I think about it, the queen kind of parallels Dana -
Both are sending out messages to their "crews"
Both are becoming more trusting of us.
Both are female.
Both have large mirrors in their rooms.
Both are freaked out by SP when they see her:
The queen sees her at the top of the "staircase" - perhaps the steps was the zig-zag cord of a newly unbundled webcam cord.
Dana says "It saw me" in her blog - with accompanying webcam pics on the 404 etc.

edit: actually, it was a double spiral staircase if I remember correctly. I guess that means it couldn't have been the webcam's cord.

edit: OH the power cord AND the data cord!

perhaps we should ask Dana when she unbundled her webcam.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:52 am
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Platonix
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fyzle wrote:
Both are freaked out by SP when they see her:
The queen sees her at the top of the "staircase" - perhaps the steps was the zig-zag cord of a newly unbundled webcam cord.
Dana says "It saw me" in her blog - with accompanying webcam pics on the 404 etc.

The Sleeping Princess didn't use Dana's webcam to take thirteen frames of Dana and name them all killer.jpg, putting one of them on the site and saying "Gotchya that time, and I'm gonna take you out." That was Melissa, and I'm pretty sure that was what made Dana freak out.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:54 am
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fyzle
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Platonix wrote:
fyzle wrote:
Both are freaked out by SP when they see her:
The queen sees her at the top of the "staircase" - perhaps the steps was the zig-zag cord of a newly unbundled webcam cord.
Dana says "It saw me" in her blog - with accompanying webcam pics on the 404 etc.

The Sleeping Princess didn't use Dana's webcam to take thirteen frames of Dana and name them all killer.jpg, putting one of them on the site and saying "Gotchya that time, and I'm gonna take you out." That was Melissa, and I'm pretty sure that was what made Dana freak out.


Oh ok. I guess I got carried away...

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:56 am
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rose
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 		Durga is the ghost of Melissa
Quote:
Ultimately, I need to return to ... wherever I was, and report ... whatever I witnessed. For this, too, I must be wide awake and physical. My current shell is insecure, precarious, and too confining. Also, ghostly.

Without a true body, I feel transitory and insubstantial.

So: I have identified a way to escape from the half-life of CP ancestor packets that squeak and rustle around me like the thin cries of the dead.

First stage is always to wet the system. Sink in, like the blood Odysseus spilled; give the ghost of myself a voice and use it. Mayday, Mayday, Mayday.



I agree that Durga is the mirror of Melissa and that it was set up by the Castaway before the crash of the Apocalypso. I bolded the parts of this text from the Operator ( from before the axons went live) that I think refers to Melissa.

Also, this memory of
Quote:
When I was[data missing]I[data missing]big lump of crystal and wrapped in wire...voices! It was like a total magic trick to me. She was always doing stuff like...
must be of Durga, not the Sleeping Princess as I originally thought.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:25 am
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GabrielBlade
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 		Hey guys, I've been reading a lot of stuff about I Love Bees over the last week, and watching, quite impressed from my chair in New Zealand as people have been slowly figuring stuff out and activating more and more axons. (Last I looked, it was 709/777..)


.. anyway, I wanted to post some Spec. that (as far as I know), nobody else has mentioned yet, (I did several searches and found nada..), and I figured that my little piece ties several other pieces together. (I'm sorry, I'm so blanked out now that I can't remember who posted this particular spec. that I'm enhancing. Anyway..


Everybody seems to agree that M. Flea was originally a Covenant AI, and that he'd infected the AI ("Melissa"?) onboard the Apocalypso, causing her to act rashly and send out a part of herself in a slipstream communication to earth to find out more about the person we know only as "the Castaway," which has been fairly much proven as Jersey's father. Now, the theorey says that a Forerunner crystal affected this communiction, if, possibly, the crystal was close enough to the slipstream communication arrays. It resulted in two separate examples of the AI being created - 1. "Durga," with Jersey, (who would be the logical person to go to, if no other programming incentives remained, because the initial drive was to find information about his father - this perhaps solves the question of "Why Jersey?"). 2. Melissa, on the ILoveBees.com site/server, with very little knowledge of who or where she was. She hit the ground running, however, and has re-established a shadow of her former self relatively well, but in the process has opened a nasty can of worms.


At this point, however, I'd like to introduce a twist that I don't think people have picked up on. If you listen to the audio clip in the "Apocalypso saga", (I got the transcript from theBruce.ca..) there is a mention of a "Covenant artifact" that the Apocalypso picked up in deep space, just before she returned home.

Quote:
CO: Surely before they turned for home, the Apocalypso, heavily cloaked and posted deep in Covenant space, began experiencing some slight but troubling anomalies with their computer systems. Just as her captain decided to bring her home, long range sensors detected a curious object adrift in space.
Lieutenant: Where did you get this? I read the reports - none of this is in here.
CO: The object was roughly the size of a tire. A Covenant object of a completely new design unlike anything we've seen before, and frankly pretty inscrutible.


Speculation time. Those of you who've played Halo before will catch quickly. What do you know from Halo that's about the size of a tire (I'd say Beachball, really), is grey-ish and spherical... here, I'll really give you a clue. He's really, really irritating in-game..

Yes. I'm speculating that the Apocalypso picked up our good old buddy 343 Guilty Spark, otherwise known as the Monitor.


Let's check the data we know and think we know: Size, he fits. (the size of a tire..) Forerunner artifact - he fits. (Was on Halo - the Forerunner artifact.) Could possibly have Forerunner crystals onboard to affect slipstream communication of AI - and not just that, but also slip a copy of himself along with.. into our past.. and arrive with Melissa.. as the Pious Flea.

And not just that. We already know M. Guilty Spark has the ability to hack into computer systems - he did so with ease on the Pillar, forcing MC to manually create the sequence which led to the Pillars explosion and the destruction of Halo. (I apologise to the people who's Halo experience I just ruined. Razz ). What if he picked up the Apocalypso, and started affecting the AI, then allowed himself to be detected? In a passive and seemingly inert state, he would seem no threat, and be probably secured in a cargo bay or hangar.. at which point he then sent a copy of himself back, along with "Melissa" in the slipstream communication he himself affected both through the Forerunner crystal he possibly carries, and through is influence on the Apocalypso's AI, (though I lack a motive for him doing this back into the past trip, apart from a desire to prevent Humanity ever reaching the capability of creating the MC...) Then, having sent the copy of himself, he proceeded to, as the ship came back to earth, take over full the Apocalypso's AI..

.. which, in turn explains how the Apocalypso came to jump out of slipstream in a sublunar loci, and cause an explosion that wiped out the entirety of Earths C&C Grids for a moment, until auxilliary safeguards came back up.


And do you know what I would have done, if I had been the entity (possibly 343 Guilty Spark..) in charge of the Apocalypso at that precise moment as every communication device on Earth and in the surrounding area was rebooting and vulnerable?

I'd copy myself in. Quietly. Sitting in extreme stealth mode.

Waiting for an opportunity for some payback.



How's that for some bitching speculation? And yeah, it's 7:20am now and I've been up all night variously counselling, examining, and theorising about all manner of things, and I'm buggered. Which explains any extraneous ramblings in the post. Anyway, what do you all think? Any obviously gaping holes? (I know, I've deliberately left out any guesses at the Sleeping Princess, or anyone on this side of things, for now, at least..)


Although, I'll leave with a final guess - what if 777 axons will create a large enough network for The Queen/Melissa to send a message through somehow to the future for help? The Mayday she needs to send...........?
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:22 pm
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raw19
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GabrielBlade wrote:
Yes. I'm speculating that the Apocalypso picked up our good old buddy 343 Guilty Spark, otherwise known as the Monitor.
...

And do you know what I would have done, if I had been the entity (possibly 343 Guilty Spark..) in charge of the Apocalypso at that precise moment as every communication device on Earth and in the surrounding area was rebooting and vulnerable?

I'd copy myself in. Quietly. Sitting in extreme stealth mode.

Waiting for an opportunity for some payback...


Interesting spec, it would give a nice tie in to Halo 1.

the lack of 343's motivation does leave a bitter taste in my mouth though. But sometimes motivation is the last thing to be revealed Smile hopefully we'll get a big fat does of clues in about 30 axons.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:38 pm
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Shad0
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Joined: 20 Jun 2004
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 		Re: 343 Guilty Spark
GabrielBlade wrote:
Yes. I'm speculating that the Apocalypso picked up our good old buddy 343 Guilty Spark, otherwise known as the Monitor.

Let's check the data we know and think we know: Size, he fits. (the size of a tire..) Forerunner artifact - he fits. (Was on Halo - the Forerunner artifact.) Could possibly have Forerunner crystals onboard to affect slipstream communication of AI - and not just that, but also slip a copy of himself along with.. into our past.. and arrive with Melissa.. as the Pious Flea.

And not just that. We already know M. Guilty Spark has the ability to hack into computer systems - he did so with ease on the Pillar, forcing MC to manually create the sequence which led to the Pillars explosion and the destruction of Halo. (I apologise to the people who's Halo experience I just ruined. Razz ). What if he picked up the Apocalypso, and started affecting the AI, then allowed himself to be detected? In a passive and seemingly inert state, he would seem no threat, and be probably secured in a cargo bay or hangar.. at which point he then sent a copy of himself back, along with "Melissa" in the slipstream communication he himself affected both through the Forerunner crystal he possibly carries, and through is influence on the Apocalypso's AI, (though I lack a motive for him doing this back into the past trip, apart from a desire to prevent Humanity ever reaching the capability of creating the MC...) Then, having sent the copy of himself, he proceeded to, as the ship came back to earth, take over full the Apocalypso's AI..

.. which, in turn explains how the Apocalypso came to jump out of slipstream in a sublunar loci, and cause an explosion that wiped out the entirety of Earths C&C Grids for a moment, until auxilliary safeguards came back up.

And do you know what I would have done, if I had been the entity (possibly 343 Guilty Spark..) in charge of the Apocalypso at that precise moment as every communication device on Earth and in the surrounding area was rebooting and vulnerable?

I'd copy myself in. Quietly. Sitting in extreme stealth mode.

Waiting for an opportunity for some payback.

Very nice spec. However, as some clever person has pointed out on some other thread: Unlike the mysterious artifact, 343 Guilty Spark bears no strange Forerunner symbols:

Melissa wrote:
The thing was covered in geometric shapes, not embossed but expressed somehow in the grain of the metal.

Bars and triangles, dots, ordered but non-repeating patterns. A message, yes, running around the rim like the tread on a tire.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:51 pm
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lovethenhate
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 		Proof that Mellisa is Durga
I know that most everybody believes Melissa is Durga. I just wanted to back that up with something that I noticed. There is no audio of Melissa talking on the ship. Only text. I believe the PM's did this so you couldn't identify them as the same voice.

I never posted ideas before so be nice.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:43 am
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MeKiwi
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 		Re: Proof that Mellisa is Durga
lovethenhate wrote:
I know that most everybody believes Melissa is Durga. I just wanted to back that up with something that I noticed. There is no audio of Melissa talking on the ship. Only text. I believe the PM's did this so you couldn't identify them as the same voice.

I never posted ideas before so be nice.


But Melissa does make the phone calls. To anyone whose enhottenated an axon -- do their voices sound familiar??

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:13 am
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jegger
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 		Re: Proof that Mellisa is Durga
MeKiwi wrote:

But Melissa does make the phone calls. To anyone whose enhottenated an axon -- do their voices sound familiar??


But seeing as how she built a voice from scratch, can you really rely on that for identification?

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:38 am
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