unforum

[ThunderRazor]

first ARG

[Corngood]

Don't take this the wrong way....

You are saying that you have no puzzles to solve, and that you are being spoon-fed a story. Certainly the latter is true, but maybe the lack of puzzles is simply due to the fact that they are not being spoon-fed to you in the same way as the story. You are just assuming there is nothing there, or assuming that we can't do anything with what we have so far...

Right now I'm looking at a diff of a spider I ran on ILB last night and tonight, and I've been doing that regularly for the last few days. It's probably a waste of time, but it's at least giving me something game-related to do.

Anyway, just keep an open mind.

[MusicToEat]

If there are deeper puzzles out there I fear no one is looking for them anymore. I can't speak for anyone else, but I feel a little burned by the Axon puzzle. They put up a list of what appeared to be GPS coordinates. The most obvious thought is to go to those locations, but we get a post by Dana with a link to a site that calculates the distance between two GPS points. So, I naturally assume this must be a puzzle. Since the Axons are listed in pairs, we must be supposed to figure out the distance between them.

Start banging my head against the wall. Then a couple locations change. We get a story about how the SPDR messed up, so the Queen killed it and replaced it with what she thought was a newer version (Pious Flea). Ok, the PMs must have messed the numbers up. It happens. Keep banging my head against the wall with the new numbers. After a week goes by, we get an almost entirely different set of Axons. Supposedly, these are the correct Axons that the Pious Flea made sure were right. Start banging my head against the wall yet again with yet another set of numbers, this time with times. Then some of these start changing in the same way a few in the first group changed. Think to myself, WTF, if we're supposed to do math with these numbers and they keep changing them how are we supposed to do that? Wait another week and since no one has been able to crack the puzzle, most have given up on it at this point anyway, people go to the locations and find ringing phones.

Now, the point of that long story is, that after all that I'm very reluctant to go looking for deeper puzzles because I fear they're not there. Two weeks of fruitless work can do that to a person. Now, I know that it's nobodies fault but my own that I put 2 and 2 together and thought I saw a 4, but I feel that the game was leading us to believe that there was something more to the axons then just being simple points on a map. Otherwise, why would she link to that page, why have two posts in a row about things not always being what they seem, why have two weeks of dead time on the site with nothing for us to do but look at changing Axons? Maybe there was a puzzle there, maybe not, who knows. We had a lot of smart people looking at it though and if there was a puzzle it was very obtuse. All I know is, at this point, I'm just going to sit back and wait for a puzzle to present it's self.

[sherpa]

[peeveen1]

I totally agree with most of what's been said. This is the first ARG I've been involved in ... if "involved" is the correct word. I had heard of the Beast, and was really looking forward to this one starting up, but it seems to be a far simpler affair.

We've had a few lightweight puzzles and riddles ... but they're no good in a game of this scale. I usually check for updates every day when I get home from work. Each time a new puzzle has been published, I usually find that it's already been analysed and solved before I can take part. Great.

The axons thing looked like a far meatier puzzle. I really got into writing computer programs to process the data ... plotting, calculating, measuring, etc ... but it seems we were all overestimating the PMs in that regard. When it turned out we were to answer payphones, I got kinda excited ... until I realised that they were all in the States and that, once again, I couldn't take part.

I really think we're just going to get .wavs and the odd SP riddle for the foreseeable future, at least until the 777 is reached. We really need to get that nailed, for the good of this game. I'd drive all over this country to help out if I could.

[GunsmithCat]

[klobbermeister]

Okay, time for my .02,

Let me preface all of this by saying I am a newcomer to ARGs, as of this experience. I have been actively following things since shortly after the trailer came out.

For all the griping about ARG vs. ARS...really, what's the difference? Who says a game can't be story-driven? There are many types of games in the world, not all of them having the same mechanic. So, why is it outside the realm of possibility to still call whatever this is an ARG, even if it is mostly about revealing a story? What makes that not a game? One of the best known story-driven games in the world is called Dungeons and Dragons (as if I need to expound on that to this group ). Sure there are dice and characters and probability, but most of the enjoyment of the game comes from interactively spinning a story between the participants.

Now, if the title of this thread were to read "Why isn't ILB more like The Beast", I don't know that I would have anything to say. But "The Beast" has already been done. Granted, it set the standard for what has become a genre, and, seemingly, other ARGs have copied that format. But why would the PMs want to replicate (again) something that has been done before? To me, that would seem boring. However, this being my first experience in this strange new world, I guess I don't know any better.

The best analogy I can come up with is when a band comes out with a second album (Album? Am I dating myself?) that has a whole different sound and feel, the people who have been following the band are upset and disgruntled because it's not what they've come to expect. But new fans totally eat it up, because they don't necessarily have expectations going in. (I don't know that the whole analogy thing was necessary...I think if y'all can solve puzzles, you can figure out what I am trying to convey).

Maybe it would be helpful for disgruntled people to change their expectations a bit and enjoy this for whatever it is? I dunno. I am just getting discouraged by reading all of the griping (and I may be merely perceiving more of it than there truly is), when I am truly enjoying this whole experience.

Thanks for letting *me* rant.

[sherpa]

klobbermeister,

Don't get us wrong. We're all enjoying it immensely. I guess it's just that we think we're capable of doing more, and the PMs haven't furnished us with material that's obviously beyond our immediate capabilities... yet.

edit-

Plus, the lull in game at the moment, the waiting we're having to do, is just giving us more opportunity and time to gripe

[CoffeeJedi]

i'm diggin the hell out of the story

the puzzles are cool and all, but they get solved SO FREAKIN FAST, i don't really have a chance to participate, as soon as i find some clue, i go to post it and its already there... by the time i find the next clue, the thing's already been solved

its cool to watch, but man... sometimes i wish some of the beekeepers in the puzzle forum weren't so dang smart (or maybe the puzzles just shouldn't be that easy)

[klobbermeister]

Sherpa,

Thanks. I got that you and DM (and CoffeeJedi, for that matter ) are all enjoying what has been presented. I just felt that I had to represent for those who don't have any complaints or gripes.

I hope we all get what you are wishing for...I think. It's always wise to be careful what you wish for...

[tapjeep]

This may sound crazy, but if you feel you are smart enough to solve these puzzles alone why go to a site where some people (who have more time to look for and solve said puzzles) will have already solved them? If it makes you feel better to solve it yourself, do so. Then come here, compare solutions, and either feel smart or dumb based on whether you were correct or not. I mean complaining about others solving puzzles too quickly is like going to a screenwriter of a film,prior to having seen the film, having him tell you all the intricate details of the film, then going to see said film and complaining that there wasn't enough there to keep you guessing.

I personally wish there were axons in my immediate area. I cannot just take off from work so a close location would be nice so I could feel I actually participated. We are actually working to get these .wav files. I suppose it would be better if Mellissa just spit them out on the site with no work on our part?? Hardly, then the theme of this thread would be: Why do they just give them to us, why can't we do something to get them? We are being given pieces of a puzzle piece by piece. Do none of you think that at some point we will do something with them?

Lastly, I do understand the frustration of those who live outside of the US. Since I haven't been able to get any Axons in my area, I too feel a little left out, just not enough to complain about it.

[CoffeeJedi]

i'm not complaining about it really
i like to work in groups that's all... i COULD try to solve the puzzle myself and see if i got the same result, but i'd rather share info, i just get alittle frustrated when the puzzle gets solved in less than 10 minutes, and i'm just standing there going... that's it? b-but... i found this clue here....... and.... aw nuts

and like you, i wish there were axons near me, the nearest one is an hour and half away, but i work 8-5 m-f

[tapjeep]

I understand and know the feeling. I have come to the conclusion that I am not nearly as smart as I once believed myself to be The only thing that really frustrates me is that I have to depend on someone else to make the axons hot. By not making them hot in a timely manner they are only prolonging this stage of the game, which up to now I haven't been able to participate in. Maybe the next round of axons??

::Attention PMs Please make axons in the immediate vicinity of Chattanooga TN::

Maybe that will work Can't hurt to try.

[Alzheimers]

I know it's been touched on briefly, but let me summarize my feelings.

The primary issue we are having here, isn't one of challenge. It isn't a problem with style. It's not even a problem with intent (BSTDYO).

It's pacing. It's the speed of the game. It's the width, and breadth, of the content we're given.

It's slow. It's small. It's repetitive. And dare I say, not very interactive.

We get just a few small updates a week that require any serious thought. I share in the dissapointment of the Axon coordinates -- it's not a puzzle, it's a *timed* scavenger hunt. It's not something I can print out and solve on the train ride home. It's not something that requires a huge amount of interest to solve. It requires you to be lucky enough to live near a point they set, AND be available at the time they choose.

We've seen *three* sets of these points now. Do you want to bet on a fourth, fifth, sixth? How many of these before the only people who remain interested are those that actually go to them?

The bottom line is, we wouldn't have enough time to complain if there was just *more* to do. Yes, these forums solve puzzles fast. We have members who will be perpetually three steps ahead of anyone else, either by intellect or luck. That's not what's important, though.

What's important is that the community see something happening. If the story progressed on a daily basis, while "impossible" puzzles fell like Lincoln Log cabins against our collective wits, we would spend less time arguing over how the Axon puzzles sucked and more time over how Plot Key X fit into Plot Hole Y, and how puzzle Z connected the two.

I don't want to say I'm losing interest, but I'm definitely losing patience. For all the promise this story holds, the only common bond we as a group share is the love of the game. If the game evaporates into a swamp of repetitive fetches and Hidden-Text-in-Binaries, then this experiment will have failed, and the PMs will have noone to blame but themselves.

edit: oh joy, more coordinates.

[Kagehi Kossori]

Well.. I think that like with The Beast, there is a definitely ultimate goal involved in where this goes. The problem is that The Beast 'could' adjust to deal with the nasty problem of someone solving the entire game in one post a matter of a few days into it. It could adapt and grow to expand the story. I suspect in this case the goal is paramount and the story laid out already. I suspect that some of us have in fact already 'solved' the basic game in spec, though since then people have wandered off in an insane number of directions, but that the game/story is now constrained to filling in the blanks of 'how' events got from the start to the end. They are trying to do the same thing Majestic did and slow down the process, only the method used is slighlty less annoying and obviously artificial imho. It would be nice though to see something a bit different, if for no other reason than the frustration of not being one of those that is close enough to anything to get involved.

However, given the insane rate at which groups like this can steamroll through real puzzles, they are probably scared to death at the idea of even trying to provide one. I would be.