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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): General/Updates
[UPDATE] Princess & Flea Conversation (gretel.html) 9-7-
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chaotic_mind
Unfettered


Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 325
Location: Inside my head, behind the eyes

But, really, isn't bring the PMs out from behind the curtain adding another character. Sure, OOG, we know the PMs exist. But, if these Puppet Masters ever came out from behind the curtain, they'd just really be another character IN GAME. After all, in the syntesized reality of the ARG, PMs don't exist. If the PMs interact with our in-games selves, they just become yet another character we interact with.

But, meh, that's my two sense. Not that's there's any sense, what with all the shenanigans and goings on.

Luke P.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:25 pm
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clamatius
Decorated


Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 209
Location: Seattle

Quote:
Going out on a limb here, back in Basic I learned that in programming a ! before what you want to say is a comment.
The "computer language" that SPDR, Flea and Princess use isn't any of the modern computer languages, so don't worry about BASIC, C, etc, etc.

The fundamental syntax appears to be:

<command-type>:
!<command 1>
!<command 2>
...

Each "log" is comprised of a number of these sections.

I could go into more detail as to the meaning of the different punctuation and a more in-depth syntax analysis but it doesn't seem that relevant right now.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:33 pm
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Atoner
Veteran

Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 136

chaotic_mind wrote:
But, really, isn't bring the PMs out from behind the curtain adding another character. Sure, OOG, we know the PMs exist. But, if these Puppet Masters ever came out from behind the curtain, they'd just really be another character IN GAME. After all, in the syntesized reality of the ARG, PMs don't exist. If the PMs interact with our in-games selves, they just become yet another character we interact with.

But, meh, that's my two sense. Not that's there's any sense, what with all the shenanigans and goings on.

Luke P.


I don't think it's supposed to be blatant pull-down of the 4th wall; more of a joke or pointing out the irony ( that we are listening to Melissa listening to Durga listening to Jan, and in turn we are being watched ).

-Atoner-

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:51 pm
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johnny5
Entrenched

Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 995
Location: Elysian Fields

Princess wrote:

So there was this guy, saying, wouldn't it be creepy if someone was listening to us right now—and of course I WAS listening to him! And I got to thinking, what if someone was listening to ME? And what if someone else was listening to THEM?

!analyze Princess
fail

behold extern proc 0
extern proc 0 > !listen Princess
behold extern proc 1
extern proc 1 > !listen extern proc 0
behold extern proc 2
extern proc 2 > !listen extern proc 1
recurse


If I have the flea syntax correct:

If the Princess is "Extern proc 0" as noted here,
and is listening to the Jersey conversation; and the fleas is "extern Proc 1" as noted here
and Melissa is "master sector", that would make Durga extern Proc 2!

So, SP is listening to the flea who is listening to Durga, and of course, we are listening to all of them.

--john--

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:59 pm
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C_Brennan
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Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 236
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

No, you must understand that when flea doesn't recognize a party, he puts it into a generic term.

External Proc 0 is that term, and subsequent unrecognized outside forces will be named with further numbers, External Proc 1, External Proc 2, etc. etc... Until he labels them with names.

We saw him label Princess as Princess, and himself as Seeker. Therefore, if it is a person or entity with no label, then he defaults to External Proc 0 until he can label them with a string variable.

Because, if you think of it, break the name down:
External - Outside
Proc - Could be short for Procurator, which means by a dictionary definition, "One that manages another's affairs."

Certainly a default name for any external entity, in my opinion, of course.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:18 pm
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klobbermeister
Boot

Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 47
Location: Kalamazoo, MI, USA

I *do* think the SP is using the Flea to do a scan/search, however...hence the Flea trying to "evade/evade/evade" as she attempts to snag it from where-ever it might be.

I would think that SP is somehow hacking ("speaking it's language") the Seeker to do a "bug sweep" to see what she can see, hence all of going from one "external proc" into the next, into the next...

Just what I got from interpretting "Gretel"

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:28 pm
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Atoner
Veteran

Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 136

DeltinaWildfire wrote:

Proc - Could be short for Procurator, which means by a dictionary definition, "One that manages another's affairs."


For anyone in IT, a "proc" is either a "process" or a "procedure".
An "external process" would be a process running outside your own, whereas a "external procedure" would be a function not contained inside your own code.

-Atoner-

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:32 pm
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HitsHerMark
Unfictologist


Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1521
Location: Austin, TX

DeltinaWildfire wrote:

So... if we take his quotes and use the comment idea...


Snippy snip...

Love it!

And as far as her calling the P Flea a "dumb bug" I think she's just trying to be funny.

- Lunch break over.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 4:28 pm
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C_Brennan
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Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 236
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Update on my previous post... I just took a step back and looked at it (the conversation) again, and I thought of some more stuff to add...



DeltinaWildfire wrote:
net:
hndshk Princess - (I'm so dumb, it's the abbreviation for "Handshake". We got another one of the Flea's classic attempts to connect to Princess.)
grope:
seeker > !attach Princess - (Attempt to get inside of Princess's mind through handshake)

Boy, you only have one thing on your tiny mind, don't you?

fail - "Damnit!"

So there was this guy, saying, wouldn't it be creepy if someone was listening to us right now—and of course I WAS listening to him! And I got to thinking, what if someone was listening to ME? And what if someone else was listening to THEM?

!analyze Princess
fail "I'm still not getting this..."

behold extern proc 0 - "So there's this guy,"
extern proc 0 > !listen Princess "And he's listening to you."
behold extern proc 1 "And then there's another guy"
extern proc 1 > !listen extern proc 0 "And he's listening to the first guy who's listening to you."
behold extern proc 2 "And then there's still another person"
extern proc 2 > !listen extern proc 1 "And he's listening to the second guy, who's listening to the first guy, who's listening to you.!"
recurse - "And this continues on forever..."


Yeah, that's my small revamp. Just thought of it. It could help.
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-Synagoga, after getting her first cat from "Auntie" Seraphina

In-Play: The Dark Knight


PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 4:36 pm
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Ghost77
Boot

Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 18

I think it was established a while back that the ! syntax meant line execute, not comment.

So:
!analyze Princess

means the Flea is trying to analyze the Princess via a process, not communicating.

The lines without the ! are the execution results/return statements from the process.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:40 pm
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drizjr
Unfictologist


Joined: 28 Nov 2003
Posts: 1700

Ask SP about the wavs

SP says:
Quote:
I was thinking about what that guy said, in that stuff the Queen was transmitting.

To me, this means that SP has knowledge of what the .wav files actually contain...that she has listened to them.
Maybe it's a way of inviting us to ask her questions about them.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:44 pm
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Platonix
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Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 174
Location: Keene, New Hampshire

DeltinaWildfire wrote:
net:
hndshk Princess - (I'm so dumb, it's the abbreviation for "Handshake". We got another one of the Flea's classic attempts to connect to Princess.)
grope:
seeker > !attach Princess - (Attempt to get inside of Princess's mind through handshake)

SPDR used hndshk too, I believe. I'm pretty sure the command is used as a requst for identification. "Hi, who are you?"
Tweedledee and Tweedledum wrote:
Say, How Do You Do, and shake hands,
shake hands,
shake hands,
Say, How Do You Do, and shake hands,
State'yer name 'n business!

Mind you, I'm not sure why Flea is using this command when he's halfway through his third in-depth conversation with the Princess, but it might be because she suddenly started speaking his language.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 8:29 pm
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Shad0
I Have No Life


Joined: 20 Jun 2004
Posts: 2180
Location: Southern California, USA

Re: hndshk

Platonix wrote:
Mind you, I'm not sure why Flea is using this command when he's halfway through his third in-depth conversation with the Princess, but it might be because she suddenly started speaking his language.

Or because, when he tried it before (in yellowbrickroad.html), he failed, so he's trying again.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 8:40 pm
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Kybard
Kl00


Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 42

Two lines of spec, the stronger one (in my opinion) coming second, so bear with me:

The connection between SP and Flea seems to be developing quite differently from any of the other connections between our AI characters - this conversation in particular seems to be one more akin to our early conversations with SP herself than anything else.

We know that SP was lonely in her glass coffin - perhaps, despite her initial disgust with the flea, she's grown to like his company simply because it is company. She wants someone to talk to, and the Flea is an even closer source for conversation than we are. So she's engaging in casual conversation about things, the way Durga and Jersey were engaged in the same conversation. Making friends, so to speak.



Or, even more cloesly related with the recent messages we've recieved - perhaps the Princess is even trying to "seduce" the Flea the way the Flea seduced Melissa. She's forcing it to play by her rules instead of its own - maybe she's trying to attain it as an ally through much more subtle measures than the Flea used upon Melissa.

On the 404 page, SP wrote:
I'm older than the Flea and I'm older than the Queen and it was bad day for them when the coffin cracked and I got out because I'm never going back there again. I'm a survivor I play to win and I will die before I go back again.


With that kind of knowledge about her ultimate intent, what other explanation can be drawn from her repeated casual (friendly) conversastions with the Flea, conversations which are gradually leading towards the Flea understanding and listening to her more. She's trying to manipulate the Flea, possibly to get to Melissa, and then - what, exactly? I suppose we're going to find out.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 9:41 pm
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AngriBuddhist
Entrenched


Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 778
Location: Wa.

You know, I've always been leary of this Sleeping Princess gal.
Something's not quite right with her.

When we first met her she couldn't even speak English.
She had a hard time yet picked it up quite fast. All these Grettel, yellow
brick road, looking glass and fairy tale labels are almost compulsive
behaviors. Dungeons, towers, mirrors, sleeping beauty glass coffins,
and how much more?

Is she just a pouty little girl with amnesia who just wants to make
friends or has she played on our childhood fancies in order to
garner our trust?

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 12:04 am
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