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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): General/Updates
[SPEC] Kumal's Sister=Sleeping Princess
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SecondSundodger
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Joined: 27 Aug 2004
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Location: Jet City

 		Trout I'm sure, but I couldn't really think of a way to search for this without getting every post mentioning Jersey or Durga, so I'll just ask:

Has anyone spec'd on why, when Jersey gives Durga her name, and Durga replies, "What if that's wrong?" Jersey tells her "Trust me, it's at least partly right." ? What about the name "Durga" guarantees it's partly right? I'm sure it's something to do with the name meaning something like "anonymous spy" or "intruder," but I honestly don't know. But if there's something else to it, then maybe it could help explain her connection to Yasmine or to the present (just trying to keep it relevant to this thread, heh).
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:57 am
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fyzle
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 		durga is a 10 (or 8 depending on religion) armed god of kicking butt:
from dictionary.com
durga
n : goddess of war; a malevolent aspect of Devi; "the inaccessible" [syn: Durga]

I think he named her this because she killed 3 AI's without giving it a second thought.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:02 am
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SecondSundodger
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 		Ah, clearly. Thanks much.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:43 am
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fyzle
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 		Even more direct supporting evidence for SP/Durga having some human memories related to age, and that she knows she is older than the other two AIs through this memory:

Sleeping Princess wrote:
I'm a lot older than I look, Angela. That's not something I remember, that's something I just know.


How old she looks: Her timestamp.
How old she remembers she is: Her human birthday.

(pls read my other posts in this thread if u are confused.)

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:16 am
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J214
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 		Alex your awesome! I spec'd this here, but I think my idea was dismissed since I failed to elaborate. Thanks for presenting this idea in the correct mannor. It was driving me crazy that the connection was being ignored Twisted Evil

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:28 pm
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Shadowkiller
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 		Think you all are onto something, but there are some problems with it. I believe the story we see unfolding is how the Covies find earth. So my thoughts on the theories will come from that direction.

The problem with Yasmine=Durga/SP because she is a failed Spartan is that by the time Reach falls the war has lasted 27 years (2525-2552). Yasmine couldn't have been kidnapped to become a Spartan II, because all of the Spartan IIs are atleast in their forties right now and they were enhanced when they were 14. Any AI made from Yasmine would have been long since dead. So it is extremely unlikely she is a Spartan.

The problem with her being abducted to be made into an AI is that again the AI would be long since dead. We know she was abducted when Kamal was 10 years old. He is now a medical student. Unless he is a super genious he isn't younger then 17. I can probably state as a fact Kamal is atleast in his early to mid 20s. I'd say no older then 27. So she could not have been adducted to become an AI.

What group would this leave her being abducted for? Not the 2nd batch of Spartan II's because they supposedly started training after the first batch was finished training, and that was right before the beginning of the War. Again to much time and add to that both she and Kamal would have to have been born before the war. Unlikely. That leaves the Spartan IIIs. Problem is we know nothing about them, we don't know what there training regimen is. Considering it is ONI project it is very likely that any candidate that didn't survive would become an AI. Why waste the training and the time invested in finding the candidate? Would also explain why Durga finds Kamal interesting.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:38 pm
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toenolla
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 		Another Spec on the meaning of Durga
More random spec about why Jersey would say that Durga is "at least partly right":

1. Durga is not just a goddess. She is an aspect of a goddess who has many names. (So getting the name "right" doesn't really matter, since any other name could apply to the same person.) Durga is the "version" of Devi that kills demons - but Devi could be many other kinds of goddesses as well.

2. Apparently, the different names applied to the single goddess are adjectives. The name "Durga" apparently means "invincible" or "inaccessible" in Sanskrit. (It also means "fort" - I assume for an inaccessible place?) I had a hard time confirming this. Religious web sites devoted to Durga defined her name but all the dictionaries just list "durga" as "a goddess." Jersey gives Durga her name right after she tells him about being "reflected" and inaccessible to herself.

3. And one more, kind of a stretch. A genie is a demon-like being (djinn are more complicated than what we normally think of as demons, but a lot of literature uses the names interchangeably). Jersey's personal assistant was called "Genie" or "Jeannie", and Durga killed her. That would make the AI a demon-killer. (Or maybe they're punning on "daemons" - automated programs?) Hindu Durga was created to kill demons.

Edit: I just read your post again, fyzle. I guess I should have tried looking in non-sanskrit dictionaries....

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:27 pm
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toenolla
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 		I know I know...
Replying to myself, just because I am so darned interesting.

I thought of something that would definitely confirm the Yasmin/SP connection:

Any references to Yasmin loving to play "HIDE AND SEEK", as that was the Operator's favorite game (and certainly seems to be a fave of the Sleeping Princess).

Woah....looking up the Arrelts/Kowalski conversation to see if there were any references to Backgammon, I came across the line "Lock away the mirror" in the second (corrupted) version. I think we might be seeing either a log of the exact moment the SP was tucked away, or an echo of it.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:54 pm
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AlexofMaceidon
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 		Two things really, in some of the websites I've found Durga is refered to as some sort of reflection of the female goddess, in that she's some sort of alternate aspect. Because this takes place just after the reflection convo, Jersey might have just had reflections on the mind, and thats the name that came up.


Next, to Shadow Killer. The idea of this being how the Covies find Earth is certainly interesting, but be wary of sticking yourself to a single perspective, as this whole puzzle is probably too complicated to be solved as such. We don't really have any years given to us in the recordings yet, we can assume this is sometime around the convienent war, obviously before earth is attacked, but not much more then that.

As for not possible to be abducted, I say, do you know every government project that occured during this time period, ever?

It is interesting that it isn't possble she wasn't a spartan 2 cripple... but there is always that "Black Project" that has been refered to before. There are plenty of other options for Yasmine to become an AI
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:13 pm
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fyzle
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 		Re: I know I know...
toenolla wrote:
Replying to myself, just because I am so darned interesting.

I thought of something that would definitely confirm the Yasmin/SP connection:

Any references to Yasmin loving to play "HIDE AND SEEK", as that was the Operator's favorite game (and certainly seems to be a fave of the Sleeping Princess).

Woah....looking up the Arrelts/Kowalski conversation to see if there were any references to Backgammon, I came across the line "Lock away the mirror" in the second (corrupted) version. I think we might be seeing either a log of the exact moment the SP was tucked away, or an echo of it.


there were two versions of our wav files?

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:35 am
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fyzle
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Quote:
playing on the beach, very young, making a castle out of sand. It's a good castle, I'm smart, I'm really smart and I'm good with my hands and the castle is beautiful but the tide is coming up, I'm making dikes and moats and outer walls, getting a little desperate here this castle means the world to me it's way better than my brother's, but the tide is rising and rising, the tide is always coming up and no matter how hard I try to save what I have made, sooner or later the spiders wash over it and melt it down I'm losing the memory already I can't see myself was I wearing a dress or overalls or ...? There's a boy on the beach next to me but a wave comes up foaming with spiders and takes away his face-


Look, she is good with her hands AND she remembers her brother!

So, in addition to the topic of this thread, I propose that Kamal's sister = The Operator/Mellissa.

another tidbit:
Quote:
Bars and triangle, dots and squares. A little like Braille, a little like cuneiform. Felt the old familiar hunger: new language like a new cuisine - delicacies of thought and nuance for me to dig into.


Edit:

Ohhh... after reading the ladybee777 emails and the Operator's memories:
I think the Operator = Queen(light, functional version of AI for running on slow computer) + SP(Memories that the Queen stowed away while the SPDR was doing its thing repairing her.)

Quote:
An artful dodger
Living in a old castle
Playing hide and seek.


See? Both the Operator and SP like Hide and Seek.
They are portions of the same AI:
Queen - the serious part: survive evade etc.
SP - the childish memories part:
Quote:
The Queen is very
serious and I am not
She makes me giggle!


This still fits in with SP being older than the other AI's because SP is the one holding the human memories. The queen's memories were washed away by SPDR or hastily stored away (in SP - she was born from these memories as they accumilated in the coffin)

And

The SP is the Perdita girl in her stories:

Quote:
Princess
seek >> home

Yeah. Except I don't remember it. Or
really even know what it means.


Quote:
I mean, why not:
Seek balloons!
Behold balloons!
Reveal balloons!
That is the law, or at least 10/6ths of the
law in this size!


PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 5:13 am
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Platonix
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 		Re: I know I know...
toenolla wrote:
Woah....looking up the Arrelts/Kowalski conversation to see if there were any references to Backgammon, I came across the line "Lock away the mirror" in the second (corrupted) version. I think we might be seeing either a log of the exact moment the SP was tucked away, or an echo of it.

That's not really a fair quote. The second version has been through some warping by the SPDR. The original quote was:
Quote:
ONI tech Kowalski: So, maybe dinner tonight?

Lock that away: a little glimpse in the mirror I'm not supposed to see.

Except he's lying. He's lying to her, Trying to impress her he's lying because that's the wrong game (how do I know that?) it's the wrong game and I know I can feel it my favorite game is HIDE AND SEEK!

Quote:
ONI tech Kowalski: So, maybe dinner tonight?

Lock that away : a little glimpse in the mirror I'm not supposed to see.

Except he's lying. He's lying to her, Trying to impress her he's lying because that's the wrong game (how do I know that?) it's the wrong game and I know I can feel it my favorite game is HIDE AND SEEK!

And then, of course, it all ends with
Quote:
ONI tech Kowalski: So, maybe dinner tonight? Lock away the mirror I'm Trying to impress her favorite game is HIDE AND SEEK!

Freaky, no?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:27 pm
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Ceantari
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 		I don't think Yasmine can be the source for the AI Durga. I thought that Dr. Halsey was the first success of cloning a brain and creating an AI outta that specimen. She made Cortana, and Kalmiya (Cortana's "older" sister).

I mean, I'm confident with the facts that everyone seems to favor is her being a SPARTAN specimen, and the one that stayed with Kamal was the "flash clone".
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 10:09 pm
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AlexofMaceidon
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Quote:
So, in addition to the topic of this thread, I propose that Kamal's sister = The Operator/Mellissa.


Fyzle, I realize that that isn't the name of the subject of the thread, but I'm pretty sure I said in the original post Kumals sister is Durga, and Durga is the Operator/Sleeping Princess. Everyone was saying (at least the wiki was saying) that KS could be Durga, and alot of people thought Durga could be the operator, I just took alot of theories and put them together, I originally wanted to title this thread "The Transitive Property of Math and Its Applications to I Love Bees" but it had too many characters to be a title.

But I guess I didn't stress the Operator=SP connection so much because the big deal was the KS=SP. But the true equation of thought is Yasmine=Durga=Operator=Sleeping Princess. Maybe that would have been the better title. Of course the SP isn't exactly the same thing as the Operator or Durga, Durga is a fully functional Operator, and SP is in a coffin until the Operator crashes... But its all there.

In any case all of this is out in the open now, and those quotes are awesome for proving this theory... really awesome.

Go Fyzle!!
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"We build a room, put up streamers and keep our fingers crossed. When you guys show up, you bring life with you. It was amazing to watch. Getting the chance to play with people smarter than I am is my favorite part." -Elan Lee

I still love bees!

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 10:32 pm
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zerosignifier
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 		Regarding Durga=Yasmine=Mellisa+SP=...
Damn it! I did not want to get hooked on another one of these games, as the Metacortechs game was totally debilitating, but here I am.

A good way to maybe sort out who is or who is a subdivision of or who is connected to who would be for one of the questions we put to the SP to be whether the various characters' names ring a bell, specifically Kamal, Yasmine, Melissa, Durga, and maybe Jan just to be thorough. I know Melissa deleted all of whatever memory she had left, but who knows. Maybe worth a shot?

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:24 pm
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