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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): General/Updates
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weephun
Entrenched


Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 908
Location: Fuquay Varina, NC

Speaking of reflections, who else do we know that can't look at themself? Oh yah, Durga.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:46 pm
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Dorkmaster
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 1328
Location: The People's Republic of Dork

Seeing your reflection (in this case) disallows future delusion. It prevents the viewer from imagining things are ok, when they're not.

I think in the end, we're going to be that mirror for the SP. But SP is going to have to want to look.

-DM
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:46 pm
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vpisteve
Asshatministrator


Joined: 30 Sep 2002
Posts: 2441
Location: 1987

Hmm, maybe the mirror/reflection is symbolic of the flashclone?????
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:48 pm
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MeKiwi
Decorated


Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 260
Location: San Francisco

Dorkmaster wrote:
Seeing your reflection (in this case) disallows future delusion. It prevents the viewer from imagining things are ok, when they're not.

I think in the end, we're going to be that mirror for the SP. But SP is going to have to want to look.

-DM


So, what you're saying, is that seeing her reflection was a *good* thing, yes? But how would the Clockwork Rat benefit from the "future delusion" of Perdita? I see how the Flea would benefit from the "future delusion" of Melissa...

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:51 pm
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CoffeeJedi
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 1327
Location: Charlotte NC, USA

i agree with DorkMaster, the flashclone idea makes sense Steve, but... it just seems to literal for me

Perdita was being shielded from the awful reality of her situation, but in the end, she looked and saw the truth. I think that SP wasn't told right away that she was an AI, she was just a little girl scared, and trapped, and didn't understand why she couldn't see her family and couldn't feel her limbs anymore. When she finally "looked" at herself, ONI finally had to admit what they had done.

damn you Bungie for making me feel emotions toward a fictional character!!!
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:52 pm
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vpisteve
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Joined: 30 Sep 2002
Posts: 2441
Location: 1987

CoffeeJedi wrote:
i agree with DorkMaster, the flashclone idea makes sense Steve, but... it just seems to literal for me

Perdita was being shielded from the awful reality of her situation, but in the end, she looked and saw the truth. I think that SP wasn't told right away that she was an AI, she was just a little girl scared, and trapped, and didn't understand why she couldn't see her family and couldn't feel her limbs anymore. When she finally "looked" at herself, ONI finally had to admit what they had done.

damn you Bungie for making me feel emotions toward a fictional character!!!


Dang. That is sad. Neutral
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:56 pm
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MeKiwi
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Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 260
Location: San Francisco

CoffeeJedi wrote:
i agree with DorkMaster, the flashclone idea makes sense Steve, but... it just seems to literal for me

Perdita was being shielded from the awful reality of her situation, but in the end, she looked and saw the truth. I think that SP wasn't told right away that she was an AI, she was just a little girl scared, and trapped, and didn't understand why she couldn't see her family and couldn't feel her limbs anymore. When she finally "looked" at herself, ONI finally had to admit what they had done.

damn you Bungie for making me feel emotions toward a fictional character!!!


Or maybe it wasn't ONI who made SP... maybe the artifact affected Melissa (or some other shipboard AI) and transfigured it into SP, who didn't have any idea what happened (one minute she's Melissa, the next she's SP?). Just [wild spec], carry on.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:56 pm
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Mazian
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 529
Location: San Francisco, CA

weephun wrote:
Quote:
phone boot where Perdita had tied her last red balloon
I guess this was the part that interested me. Perdita tying balloons to phone boot[h]s to find her way home ... Melissa sending out calls to phone booths to find her way home. Hmm.


[HIJACK]

Here it was discussed that the balloons are a metaphor for mushroom clouds. Considering the trailer for Halo 2, that would be appropriate.

[SPEC="Silly"]

Whoever has been sending out Axons for us to enhottenate has been using the payphones as a means of identifying targets for the Covenant. (Of course, I think it's highly unfair for bungie to imply that only the north american continant receives special lubbins from the Covenant...)

[/SPEC][/HIJACK]
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:10 pm
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CoffeeJedi
Unfictologist


Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 1327
Location: Charlotte NC, USA

Mazian wrote:
weephun wrote:
Quote:
phone boot where Perdita had tied her last red balloon
I guess this was the part that interested me. Perdita tying balloons to phone boot[h]s to find her way home ... Melissa sending out calls to phone booths to find her way home. Hmm.


[HIJACK]

Here it was discussed that the balloons are a metaphor for mushroom clouds. Considering the trailer for Halo 2, that would be appropriate.

[SPEC="Silly"]

Whoever has been sending out Axons for us to enhottenate has been using the payphones as a means of identifying targets for the Covenant. (Of course, I think it's highly unfair for bungie to imply that only the north american continant receives special lubbins from the Covenant...)

[/SPEC][/HIJACK]


OMG!!!!123 TAHT MEEANZ TH3 COVENAN7 WILL... ummm... geez, i don't know... M4zter Chef will... 1337.... ummmm........... yeah..... i got nuthin'
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:13 pm
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4dSwissCheese
Veteran

Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 83

Long time lurker, first time poster

devolver wrote:
CoffeeJedi wrote:
this actually lends more credence to the whole SP = Kamal's siter thing.... she was taken from her family as a little girl, and... in some ways... she was never allowed to grow up, so her emotional development is still that of a child?


Plus, I couldn't help but think of her mechanization--her limbs becoming metal, etc--as a metaphor for her being "Spartanized," for lack of a better word.


I actually see the story more as a metaphor for the creation of an AI from a dead person. In this case, Perdita picking out the red balloons represents her death. Note the colour of the balloons - "bright blood red". And how afterwards Perdita doesn't interact with anyone but the rat (who would represent whatever computer program is used in creating the AI - I don't think it's explicitly stated, but I certainly got the impression it was the rat who was doing the body part replacement). This also ties in well with dawn never coming in the story and how gloomy and surreal the world is in general.

As to which AI is being created, my spec would be SP. It's her telling us the story after all and certainly has a playful, childlike streak.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:14 pm
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MeKiwi
Decorated


Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 260
Location: San Francisco

Mazian wrote:
[SPEC="Silly"]

Whoever has been sending out Axons for us to enhottenate has been using the payphones as a means of identifying targets for the Covenant. (Of course, I think it's highly unfair for bungie to imply that only the north american continant receives special lubbins from the Covenant...)

[/SPEC]


LOL... not to mention, Verizon might not appreciate the negative PR resulting from having every one of their (and ONLY their) phone booths bombed by the Covies.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:14 pm
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Zemat
Boot

Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 54

I'm a little lost here. Why almost all of you are assuming Perdita is SP? Any reference? links to explaining threads? Smile

I'm more convinced SP is actually talking about Mellissa than herself. Operator is the one that had childhood memories (later to be taken away, like a replaced thumb). SP didn't even know how to speak in english in the beginning. Besides SP seems to be more wise than we give credence to her. One thing that seems to be quite relevant of her last 404 is this:

SP wrote:
It's nice to think there is a world beside this one where I am all alone in buzzing, flickering darkness.


This seems to imply (at least for me) that SP wasn't much of a real person (or simply wasn't human) before being an AI. (I subscribe to the theory of she being Forerunner)

Also she seems to not be very worried about seeing her own reflection nor gives any reference to doing something to find her own past while Mellissa and Durga at least seem to try to find out.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:17 pm
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MeKiwi
Decorated


Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 260
Location: San Francisco

4dSwissCheese wrote:
I actually see the story more as a metaphor for the creation of an AI from a dead person. In this case, Perdita picking out the red balloons represents her death. Note the colour of the balloons - "bright blood red". And how afterwards Perdita doesn't interact with anyone but the rat (who would represent whatever computer program is used in creating the AI - I don't think it's explicitly stated, but I certainly got the impression it was the rat who was doing the body part replacement). This also ties in well with dawn never coming in the story and how gloomy and surreal the world is in general.

As to which AI is being created, my spec would be SP. It's her telling us the story after all and certainly has a playful, childlike streak.


Good point on the eternal night. And, if what you're saying about SP "being" Perdita is true, then when SP looks in the mirror she will finally realize that she's dead? Maybe she doesn't believe she (physical body) really died and is just in denial.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:18 pm
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CoffeeJedi
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 1327
Location: Charlotte NC, USA

good first post SwissCheese!
yeah, that's what i was trying to get at.... the creation of an AI, not a Spartan, it makes more sense to me too.... metaphors within metaphors... this is getting rather philosophical

and even if (SleepingPrincess != Kamal's sister) { Perdita could still be the story of the SP's transistion from human to post-human AI }
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:19 pm
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Andy
Boot

Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 55

I still believe that this is the story of Melissa's current situation. The balloons are the axons being left for her crew. The Clockwork Rat is the Flea, who is pretending to help her but really has his own agenda. I think the end of the story - Perdita seeing her reflection and realizing the Rat is not as friendly as he seemed - has not yet happened, but is going to have to happen for things to be resolved.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:22 pm
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