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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): Axon Coordination
[META] U.K. Axon Hunters - A Place of Your Own!
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bcriswell
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Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 136
Location: Oxford, England

 		Re: An Alaskan Yankee in Leicester Square
Lunaci wrote:
Hello fellow hunters,

I have been following the events of ilovebees.com with great interest the past few months. My travels have brought me back to London where I was happy to see that there is an axon that I could still have a chance to see go hot. I am hoping it might be possible to meet up with other hunters in London. Please drop me an email, or maybe just keep an eye out for the Giant Alaskan wandering around looking at payphones around 5:30 tomorrow.

Welcome! I think we are in a holding pattern until something changes. Most likely, something about the axon listing on the page will change or Dana will email one of us to tell us to try again. You may want to wait until we get an update.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 5:44 pm
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vector
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Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 721
Location: Portland OR

 		Projection issues
After more consideration the only real way that the location would be off due to a projection issue would be if they went and found this location by hand, and that their GPS unit was set to a European datum. so one possable option would be for you to enter in the cords and then switch your map datum from WGS84 to European 1950, and see if the point moves to a diffrent phone. either that or wait till tomarrow and see if the point moves Wink

If you do this and it works, i guess i get my GIS gold star for the day.

Hope it helps!

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:01 pm
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bcriswell
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Location: Oxford, England

 		Re: Projection issues
vector wrote:
After more consideration the only real way that the location would be off due to a projection issue would be if they went and found this location by hand, and that their GPS unit was set to a European datum. so one possable option would be for you to enter in the cords and then switch your map datum from WGS84 to European 1950, and see if the point moves to a diffrent phone. either that or wait till tomarrow and see if the point moves Wink

If you do this and it works, i guess i get my GIS gold star for the day.

Hope it helps!

It is worth a try. If the coordinate does not move by Saturday, I will try it. Cheers.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:18 pm
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AngriBuddhist
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Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 778
Location: Wa.

 		Has this axon has been sought after for a week and a half, or is 2 1/2?

It could be entirely possible that since this is the first and possibly only
(we'll see tommorrow) axon in the U.K., the PMs could have taken it
upon themselves to make it exceptionally tricky.

It would make for more frustration and in turn a much greater payoff.

Who knows though, it could be nudge/fixed or additional axons could
be added.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 1:07 am
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Chao
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Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 10

 		Well I found a site that mentioned a rough guide to changing the gps coordinates between datums and came up with an area around 6 meard street (just up from soho square where you've been looking).

PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:20 am
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bcriswell
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Chao wrote:
Well I found a site that mentioned a rough guide to changing the gps coordinates between datums and came up with an area around 6 meard street (just up from soho square where you've been looking).

Which datums were you converting from/to?

For instance, when I posted the map that was near the church, that was (probably) using Ord Srvy Grt Britn.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 6:43 pm
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Chao
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Joined: 27 Sep 2004
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 		I went from the standard to both the great britain ordinate servey one and to the european one (i forgot the site i got the conversion from). One of them put me partway in the square, the other gave me meard street.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 8:00 pm
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vector
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Location: Portland OR

 		alright, this is a bit more spec

another possability. if the PMs took the lat/long by hand, and asumeing that it was someone from the US that was in London takeing the point, its possable that his/her GPS was still set to a US datum such as North American Datum 1983 (NAD83) or NAD27. of the two i would think that NAD27 would be more likely as the USGS maps that are most common are set to NAD27. a likely setting for a bungie employee that uses a gps along with a USGS map.

Good Luck!

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:53 am
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Flidget Jerome
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Chao wrote:
Well I found a site that mentioned a rough guide to changing the gps coordinates between datums and came up with an area around 6 meard street (just up from soho square where you've been looking).


Thanks, but Richchestmat's alternate coordinate was around there, so we've already checked the area. There are no phoneboxes on Meard Street at all, the closest are the bank of six by St. Anne's Church, which have all been checked.

Chao wrote:
I went from the standard to both the great britain ordinate servey one and to the european one (i forgot the site i got the conversion from). One of them put me partway in the square, the other gave me meard street.


But wait! Chao, you got something in Soho Square itself? We've never checked there, just at the Wadour/Meard and Dean locations. Could you give us some more details?

vector wrote:
another possability. if the PMs took the lat/long by hand, and asumeing that it was someone from the US that was in London takeing the point, its possable that his/her GPS was still set to a US datum such as North American Datum 1983 (NAD83) or NAD27. of the two i would think that NAD27 would be more likely as the USGS maps that are most common are set to NAD27. a likely setting for a bungie employee that uses a gps along with a USGS map.


Vector, I'm afraid most of your spec went over my head, but is a USGS map necessary to it? The USGS is part of the US Department of the Interior, I really doubt they'd be making maps of London. For what it's worth, our national mapping agency is the Ordinace Survey. Quoting their website about their datum - "The heights expressed for points mapped on the National Grid are expressed as a height difference in meters from a known point on the harbour wall in Newlyn, Cornwall.". . which doesn't really help us, I suspect.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:03 am
Last edited by Flidget Jerome on Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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vector
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Quote:
Vector, I'm afraid most of your spec went over my head, but is a USGS map necessary to it? The USGS is part of the US Department of the Interior, I really doubt they'd be making maps of London. For what it's worth, our national mapping agency is the Ordinace Survey. Quoting their website about their datum - "The heights expressed for points mapped on the National Grid are expressed as a height difference in meters from a known point on the harbour wall in Newlyn, Cornwall.". . which doesn't really help us, I suspect.


What i was trying to explain (poorly, sorry) was that if a person from the US were to take thier GPS unit to london and not know to reset thier map datum then when they took the point in london, it would be in a US projection, makeing the point be way off when put into mapquest for example.

to explain why i was talking about USGS.

The most common datum, especialy for global GPS, is WGS84. mapquest uses this datum. Now, you are right it is the Department of Interior that deals with USGS. Being slow to adopt new things, they never switched to WGS84, as all of thier old maps are still in NAD27. That said, the best maps for backpacking or just in general useing with your GPS are put out by the USGS and are set to NAD27.

My spec is that a bungie employe that uses his GPS along with USGS maps, was going to be in london and with all the cries of people in london wanting a point decided to find a phone and get the GPS location for it. when takeing that point either forgot or didnt know to change the datum (after all it always worked in the US right?) this would cause a major shift in where the point was when put into mapquest. And being certin that the phone is at the location they have on the site, they havent changed it.

Clear as mud?

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:32 am
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bcriswell
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vector wrote:
Clear as mud?

Sparkling. I have been looking for US specific datum names. Cheers.

My plan at this point is to spend a large chunk of Saturday locating as many phones next to the coordinates (on different datums) as possible before meeting everyone.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 7:40 am
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bcriswell
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Chao wrote:
One of them put me partway in the square,

Is that the square with St. Anne's church in it? If so, that was what was on the ordinance survey map I posted. Any luck with it? Any phones nearby?

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 7:43 am
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Flidget Jerome
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bcriswell wrote:
Chao wrote:
One of them put me partway in the square,

Is that the square with St. Anne's church in it? If so, that was what was on the ordinance survey map I posted. Any luck with it? Any phones nearby?


The nearest phones are the bank of six outside. They've all been checked. By the way, St Anne's isn't actually in a 'square', in the street address sense. It just has a large church yard that may look like a square on a map, but that's walled in and usually the gates are closed.

Soho Square is quite a bit northeast of the Dean Street location and even farther from the Wadour/Meard location. By 'quite a bit' I mean 'more than 250 metres'. Would using different datums give us that sort of margin of error?

vector wrote:
Clear as mud?


Crystal. Thanks vector.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 8:48 am
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vector
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Quote:
Soho Square is quite a bit northeast of the Dean Street location and even farther from the Wadour/Meard location. By 'quite a bit' I mean 'more than 250 metres'. Would using different datums give us that sort of margin of error?


Deffinatly. The possable error difference within the US between NAD27 and WGS84 can be up to 200 meters, probably more for outside the US.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:30 am
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bcriswell
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Flidget Jerome wrote:
bcriswell wrote:
Chao wrote:
One of them put me partway in the square,

Is that the square with St. Anne's church in it? If so, that was what was on the ordinance survey map I posted. Any luck with it? Any phones nearby?


The nearest phones are the bank of six outside. They've all been checked. By the way, St Anne's isn't actually in a 'square', in the street address sense. It just has a large church yard that may look like a square on a map, but that's walled in and usually the gates are closed.

Soho Square is quite a bit northeast of the Dean Street location and even farther from the Wadour/Meard location. By 'quite a bit' I mean 'more than 250 metres'. Would using different datums give us that sort of margin of error?

Thanks, Flidget. That probably knocks off Ord Srv as the datum they were using.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:50 pm
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