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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): General/Updates
[info/spec] ReCREWtment: Tips for Live Calls
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The Adam
Boot

Joined: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 61

 		If you recieve a call, you get the caller's "implied consent" over the rights of the phone call, and can do whatever you want with it. Tom Mabe (www.tommabe.com) has a few CD's out of calls where he's messed around with telemarketers which he can legally sell as his own product due to the legalities of phone calls.


Adam, radio pranks aren't[/url]

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:38 am
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Mike_Was
Decorated


Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 170
Location: Old Mombassa and Delta Halo, depending on the season

 		Re: For those attempting to record the calls...
ariock wrote:
Before you grab one, a quick warning: When I bought mine, the guy behind the counter said that it could be illegal to record a phone conversation in this state. Obviously he isn't a lawyer, and neither am I, so I have no idea exactly what the laws are regarding recording phone conversations. And the laws in your area may differ from the laws elsewhere.


I've posted this elsewhere, but it bears repeating.

Laws on recording phone calls vary from state to state. Some states are "one-party consent" states, meaning that if one party to the phone call consents to the recording, it's legal. Other states require the consent of all parties prior to recording. Failure to obtain the required consent can be a criminal violation.

Here's a useful primer on state recording laws: http://www.rcfp.org/taping/

That said, it's unlikely that recording an automated call will get you into trouble. (Arguably, you're the only "party" on the line.) Furthermore, it would be difficult to argue that the PMs or voice actors didn't know (and implicitly consent to) any recordings going on. (We are highly confident they monitor this forum, for instance, and know that we obsessively record phone calls. I find it hard to imagine that any prosecutor would waste his time on something like this.

Still, BEE careful.

EDIT: Also, Melissa has asked me (and others) for permission to record and transmit the content of our calls. Clearly, if she is recording, she has consented to be recorded.


Disclaimer: I'm not your lawyer. This is not legal advice. If you think you need legal advice, consult a lawyer. You have no reasonable expectation that I know what I'm talking about, that I am sane, or even that I am a human being.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:57 am
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Dragonrider
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Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 352
Location: Albuquerque

 		Nice disclaimer...
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 10:05 am
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Mazian
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 529
Location: San Francisco, CA

 		Re: For those attempting to record the calls...
ariock wrote:
.
.
.
Before you grab one, a quick warning: When I bought mine, the guy behind the counter said that it could be illegal to record a phone conversation in this state. Obviously he isn't a lawyer, and neither am I, so I have no idea exactly what the laws are regarding recording phone conversations. And the laws in your area may differ from the laws elsewhere.
.
.
.


In California, recording conversations without the express knowledge and permission of both parties, without a court order, is "illegal." Although there is no crime if these recordings are made for personal use (e.g., non-attributable sound bytes).

Specifically, and most significantly, you cannot make money off of a soundbyte obtained without express permission/knowledge of all participants. You also will not be permitted to admit any recorded calls as evidence in a court of law.

None of which really applies to our purposes. Feel free to record in California, for ARG purposes. If you record another live human being (such as a player) always seek their permission first (out of politeness).

If you're recording a call for any reason not related to an ARG, I suggest you seek legal representation to get a full understanding of the law.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 1:58 pm
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Mazian
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
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Location: San Francisco, CA

 		Re: For those attempting to record the calls...
[Edit: Duplicate Post]
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Corporal Conrad Mazian (E4), Marine Second Squad, Apocalypso
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:00 pm
Last edited by Mazian on Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Avery1415
Boot

Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 51
Location: St. Louis
Theorizer wrote:
Yes, it's it loud, shoud in boud? and found? KILL WEEPHUN loud?


Oh, let's be kind to WEEPHUN - He's crew, remember? Of course he's going to side with Melissa. Wink

And next week, when one of us gives Meissa more information than we should of becasue we were trying to get more info out of her and caught off our gaurd, we don't have to worry about vigilantes at our door.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:00 pm
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Mazian
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
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Location: San Francisco, CA
krystyn wrote:
Melissa specifically said in my call that recording and archiving was very, very important, so I bet that notifying her politely that you are archiving as a matter of 'standard operating procedure' would likely work just fine, if you phrase it in such a way to garner her assent.


[IIRC] Probably, there's a scene in "Halo: Fall of Reach" where the AI is required to notify superiors of Dr Halsey's (?) unauthorized attempt to access information for which she was not permitted access. My recollection is fuzzy on the exact scene details, but IIRC, she played this game with the AI regularly. Pushing for information that she wasn't permitted to gain, and divining the correct answers based on the gaps in the authorized information she was provided. (Sorta reminds me of Ronnie) [/IIRC]
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:03 pm
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Mazian
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 529
Location: San Francisco, CA

 		[SOAPBOX]

The Adam wrote:
If you recieve a call, you get the caller's "implied consent" over the rights of the phone call, and can do whatever you want with it. Tom Mabe (www.tommabe.com) has a few CD's out of calls where he's messed around with telemarketers which he can legally sell as his own product due to the legalities of phone calls.


Adam, radio pranks aren't[/url]


Tom Mabe is also a resident of KY:

Organization:
Tom Mabe Inc.
Tom Mabe
4111 Morgan Jaymes Drive
Louisville, KY 40299
US
Phone: 502-261-0928
Email: tommabe3SPLATaol.com

Domain Name: TOMMABE.COM



KY laws do not apply in CA. And anyone who gives legal advice is actually liable for that advice, and subject to a suit for malpractice. Be very careful about giving legal advice.

(it's similar to the laws regarding what you are and are not allowed to do if you find a critically injured man on the side of the road after a car accident. Some things are just beyond your experience and you should call a professional to assist you instead of taking it upon yourself to move the injured man. You should, despite your best intentions, be offering more harm than good.)

[/SOAPBOX]
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:08 pm
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Avatrix
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 413
Location: Boston, MA
Mazian wrote:

KY laws do not apply in CA. And anyone who gives legal advice is actually liable for that advice, and subject to a suit for malpractice. Be very careful about giving legal advice.

(it's similar to the laws regarding what you are and are not allowed to do if you find a critically injured man on the side of the road after a car accident. Some things are just beyond your experience and you should call a professional to assist you instead of taking it upon yourself to move the injured man. You should, despite your best intentions, be offering more harm than good.)


There do exist a class of laws called "Good Samaritan" laws. The basic jist of these laws is that if you find someone on the sidewalk who is hurt, or isn't breathing, for example, you can't be sued by trying to help them in good faith. If you try to give CPR, and break their ribs (which frequently happens), they can't sue you for it. Or if you're giving CPR while waiting for an ambulence, and they don't happen to survive, you can't be sued for killing the person. The idea behind these laws is to encourage people to help. If you were afraid that you might go to jail by trying to help, many people wouldn't do a thing.

I was under the impression that these laws were federal and thus applied nationally--but perhaps they only apply in some states.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:28 pm
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vortech
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Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 465
Location: Atlanta, GA

 		. . . I really don't think Bungie is going to press charges against you for playing the game. Empirically I've recorded 6 different clips and posted them here and nothing happened legally.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:33 pm
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Sep7imus
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Joined: 26 Jul 2004
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Avatrix wrote:
There do exist a class of laws called "Good Samaritan" laws. The basic jist of these laws is that if you find someone on the sidewalk who is hurt, or isn't breathing, for example, you can't be sued by trying to help them in good faith. If you try to give CPR, and break their ribs (which frequently happens), they can't sue you for it. Or if you're giving CPR while waiting for an ambulence, and they don't happen to survive, you can't be sued for killing the person. The idea behind these laws is to encourage people to help. If you were afraid that you might go to jail by trying to help, many people wouldn't do a thing.

I was under the impression that these laws were federal and thus applied nationally--but perhaps they only apply in some states.

Way Off Topic, but...

They aren't Federal. Some aren't even state laws. Certain communities have their own Good Samaritan laws.

Didn't anyone watch the finale of Seinfeld?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:33 pm
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Mazian
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 		proc hijack
null

Laughing

Ok, and now back to recruitment tips for those who will be answering calls tomorrow...
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:55 pm
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mycroftxxx
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Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 103
Location: Houston, Texas

 		Ok, question for the crew - I'm assuming that your in-game characters aren't really displaced time-travelling naval officers. Is it correct to assume that all of you are really twenty-first century terrans playing tricks on a debilitated A.I.?

(note: this is important - In-game, a lot of the meta-posts on Unfiction would not exist, nor would any references to Halo, the novels, Marathon, or Bungie. It is reasonable to assume that a Cloudmakers-like group of people monitoring the ILB situation exists and is in contact to pool resources, and that the "crew" are part of this ad-hoc group.)

Is so, any suggestions for someone who wants to "spill the beans" and tell the Queen what she is really dealing with? (not me - Houston isn't on the map as far as Mellissa is concerned)

I have thought of several points where the truth could be told to Mellissa, especially if future axon spike calls go the way previous ones have. Optimally, telling the story of the ILB site as a parable on lonliness or the futility of revenge when asked for a story would be perfect, as one could get most of the way into it before the horror begins to dawn to the A.I.

Those of you who have received calls, if you were to explain the "real" situation to Mellisa, how would you do it? How would you explain the security breaches that the Queen has had and how the Cloudmakers are not-neccesarily enemies, but not the crew she believes she is dealing with?

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 3:41 pm
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Mazian
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mycroftxxx wrote:
Ok, question for the crew - I'm assuming that your in-game characters aren't really displaced time-travelling naval officers. Is it correct to assume that all of you are really twenty-first century terrans playing tricks on a debilitated A.I.?
.
.
.

I'm going to respond to the first part of your post/question.

Until the most recent update to hives.html, I had still held out "hope" (if that's the right word, maybe more accurately I SPEC'd) that the game really had no reason to have a time differential. We could pretend we're "in the future" just as easily as we could pretend that we're talking to AIs.

However, since the latest hives.html update, where the Operator Asserts that (1) she's crashed in this time (as opposed to the future time) and (2) she has a tenuous connection with a personality/process in the future, I have since come to decide that we are the average joe's and jane's, 2004 variety.

Nonetheless, the latest 404 error page says what Melissa thinks about us as crew.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 4:23 pm
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The Adam
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Joined: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 61
Mazian wrote:
KY laws do not apply in CA. And anyone who gives legal advice is actually liable for that advice, and subject to a suit for malpractice. Be very careful about giving legal advice.


Holla. My fault for being lazy.


---The Adam, all information offered as spec and in no way should be considered advice either legal or helpful all rights reserved here's a grain of salt

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:37 pm
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