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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): Puzzles
[SOLVESOLVESOLVE]Oct 8th PREPOSITION PUZZLE:usernameguy
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Avatrix
Unfettered


Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 413
Location: Boston, MA

Based on a lot of the other puzzles we've had, it keeps striking me that something such as a word "sounding like" another word is too simple, especially if they're trying to stump us. Of course, I haven't figured out an another possibility yet, but my gut tells me we're stuck in a rut, and not looking down the right path.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:22 am
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RandMod6
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Joined: 24 Sep 2004
Posts: 85
Location: 46.875805 -096.784945

the evils of brute force

usernameguy wrote:
I wrote a quickie Perl script. I tried all 3362 combinations of "word_word" and "word_and_word". No joy.

As a computer scientist, I can appreciate some of the virtues of your approach, but as an ARG player I cannot. ARG commandment #3: Thou shall not brute force. Yes, this puzzle is kicking our communal Censored & yes I want it solved as do we all, but we should try to abstain from the baser arts, lest the PMs bust out the mad smite.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:42 am
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Lurking_Kouzou
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Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 124
Location: Earth

Avatrix wrote:
Kouzou, it's a good idea, but I don't think it works here. (I did try checking it out yesterday, without luck). There are far too many vowels, and most of the consonants are B's and T's. It seems unlikely to me that there is enough variety in the first letters to make a coherent phrase.


That is entirely possible. Unless of course..... http://transmit.ilovebees.com/outbound/aaaaeeeeeeiiiiioooooouuuuuuu.wav nope, of course that doesn't work.

~K

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:49 am
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peeveen1
Boot

Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 51

Quote:
As a computer scientist, I can appreciate some of the virtues of your approach, but as an ARG player I cannot. ARG commandment #3: Thou shall not brute force. Yes, this puzzle is kicking our communal & yes I want it solved as do we all, but we should try to abstain from the baser arts, lest the PMs bust out the mad smite.


I'd see your point if we were firing the entire dictionary at the problem, but we're restricting ourselves to a very specific subset of words that we have ballparked from the clues given, which I don't think constitutes a brute force.

Anyhow ... as an update to my previous attempts:

(words rhyming with prep|pre)_(words rhyming with position|positions)

14,000+ combinations tested, no match found.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:50 am
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jegger
Decorated

Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 222
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: the evils of brute force

pikalek wrote:
usernameguy wrote:
I wrote a quickie Perl script. I tried all 3362 combinations of "word_word" and "word_and_word". No joy.

As a computer scientist, I can appreciate some of the virtues of your approach, but as an ARG player I cannot. ARG commandment #3: Thou shall not brute force. Yes, this puzzle is kicking our communal Censored & yes I want it solved as do we all, but we should try to abstain from the baser arts, lest the PMs bust out the mad smite.


One related question. I repeatedly hit the server to get the last set of coords from killer.jpg. The occurrence was so rare, that unless you got extremely lucky, you just wouldn't get it. Does this constitute brute force? It seems almost like it was necessary for the solve.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:57 am
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guantes
Boot

Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Posts: 12

Ok I've been digging around in my brain to try and sort this one, (since I usually come in too late in the game to sort an actual puzzle this one gave me a chance!)

Still after all the attempts with complex "sounds like" theories my first assumptions keep coming back to me.....

1) A lot of these words seem to be atonyms.... On/Off, Above/Below etc.
2) There are 41, a number which won't pair off exactly.

Sorry if this is trout but have we gone through to match up pairs of results? I tried it out but was pretty unsucessful.

I also tried to group the words by categories since they do fall into a number of simple categories, I'm just unsure what to do with them now.

I just keep thinking that "sounds like" is the end of the riddle and the beginning involves the list.... sounds like the atonym of the odd one out?

(Note: in my search I have checked the following;
slip_of_the_tongue.wav
sloping_trough.wav
cough.wav
trough.wav
take_it_on_the_chin.wav
devout.wav
stake_out.wav
bake_off.wav
violence.wav
more_over.wav
All with various combinations of hypens, underscores and spaces.)
Needless to say they're all 404.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:06 pm
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thebruce
Dances With Wikis


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 6899
Location: Kitchener, Ontario

I can't help but think that SP will either give us a hint tomorrow or tell us where to find the clip... it's gotta be unlocked somehow.

Same with those two missing recipe3 clips... that just irks me! Confused
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:13 pm
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RandMod6
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Joined: 24 Sep 2004
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brute force revisted

peeveen1 wrote:
I'd see your point if we were firing the entire dictionary at the problem, but we're restricting ourselves to a very specific subset of words that we have ballparked from the clues given, which I don't think constitutes a brute force.

True, it wasn't the gravest of evils, but I felt the need to say something before someone with less discretion than yourself hacked your code to do a bad thing. My intent was not to impose my own views over your own.
jegger wrote:
One related question. I repeatedly hit the server to get the last set of coords from killer.jpg. The occurrence was so rare, that unless you got extremely lucky, you just wouldn't get it. Does this constitute brute force? It seems almost like it was necessary for the solve.

I by no means proclaim to be the definative authority on the matter, but I'd say probably not. You were attempting to get the puzzle vs trying to solve it. In the future, I'd suggest looking thru the forums & related resources, as frequently someone will post puzzle pieces to save others the trouble of repeatedly refreshing.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:13 pm
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usernameguy
Boot

Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 68

To me, it was like doing by hand, only faster. This is what I do for a living. Guess I didn't think about it that much.

Where's the line, exactly? I can automate this six ways to Sunday. If I had a program generate the request lines, then run it by hand, would that be bad? OK, what if I used a really good editor to generate the requests quickly? What if I'm just really good with Notepad?

I'd agree with you if we were doing a dictionary attack, but at a couple thousand, especially at the point we're at with this thing, all I'm doing is saving someone out there some time.

Who knows, Melissa could be artificially turning down requests that come too fast.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:19 pm
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catherwood
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee

Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 4109
Location: Silicon Valley, CA

I think the point for me is that you're just guessing, you aren't solving the riddle/puzzle/challenge. So what if you stumble upon it, where is the pride in that?

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:53 pm
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usernameguy
Boot

Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 68

Someone asked for it. [shrug] There have been a lot of hand-attempts down this line.

Again, didn't think about it that much. It took me 2 minutes. You guys are probably right, I won't be doing that again.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:57 pm
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drizjr
Unfictologist


Joined: 28 Nov 2003
Posts: 1700

Probabaly more of nothing imparticular

While reviewing the solves to the other puzzles posted on the Fireflies Wiki , most of these puzzles had a middle step; not just the title and the clues, but some kind of key to solve them.
So, I'm thinking we missed something.
I noticed that the untitled.bmp on the main page, the one behind the black message block, isn't listed as one of the pics used in this round of puzzles.
Opening it in notepad, I see no words, but there are a series of numbers scattered about. (I like ending my sentences with prepositions. )
Here are three different lines:
>8+9-+9-+9-+9-+9-+9-+9-+9-4:54:56<
<3?9+9-+9-+9-+9-+9-+9-+9-+9-4:54:56<78>99?
(31(31)42*53+64,75-86-86.>7.>7

It's probably nothing.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:58 pm
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Tien_Le
Charter Member


Joined: 22 Sep 2002
Posts: 878
Location: corner of no and where

the image

Strifey posted the image in question here: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/strife777/untitled.bmp

Edit: turns out this is margaretphoto.jpg. nm
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:18 pm
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SuperJerms
Unfettered


Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 537
Location: indiana

Ok, I'm reaching again, but here's a new thought.

Sounds Like...

Remeber two weeks ago, we had a puzzle that said "No, don't look IN the picture!" and we had to count the flowers on danadress? What if this is similar?

SOUNDS LIKE...maybe we should be listening to the hives mantra?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:44 pm
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danteGA
Boot

Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 65

SuperJerms wrote:
Ok, I'm reaching again, but here's a new thought.

Sounds Like...

Remeber two weeks ago, we had a puzzle that said "No, don't look IN the picture!" and we had to count the flowers on danadress? What if this is similar?

SOUNDS LIKE...maybe we should be listening to the hives mantra?


Ugh! I hate listening to hives.html.. but I forced myself to listen to it again, and it sounds the same to me.


dante

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:55 pm
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