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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): General/Updates
[SPEC] Monster Ann = Gladys
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daboking
Unfettered


Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 486
Location: 2nd star to the right

 		colored perceptions is putting it mildly. If they were anywhere near the 2's, in spite of age, don't think for a sec that the way things have been going in the war that the military would not have still found a use some supersoldiers.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:22 pm
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kingchaos2
Decorated

Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 153
Smoke wrote:
As for Thin having intimate knowledge of Jim's SPARTAN-born abilities, why do you think he and his men do a double take when Jim tears through the bucknet? Had they have been informed as you claim, such an act wouldn't seem so impossible.


Why would they have netted him and broken down the floor in the first place if they didn't know something? If they thought he was normal, then why didn't they just wait to handcuff him at the door? To be that prepared for somebody means that you know somewhat what he's capable of. The double-take was only a natural reaction; as in not believing until you see it with your own eyes.. In fact, Thin and Ann were the only people who had to know what James was about, so maybe their lackeys just found out and were in awe.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:26 pm
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HalfMoon
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Joined: 07 Oct 2004
Posts: 33
Location: SoCal
Quote:
Why would they have netted him and broken down the floor in the first place if they didn't know something? If they thought he was normal, then why didn't they just wait to handcuff him at the door? To be that prepared for somebody means that you know somewhat what he's capable of.


Common axion(not axon!) taught to good generals through out history, whether they be Babylonian Kings 3000 years ago or gang-running thugs in the 26th century:

Don't prepare for what you know is coming. Prepare for what you think can't possibly be coming. Because what you know might turn out to be wrong.

Thin didn't need to know anything about J^2 to be as prepared as he was. He simply needed to be aware that, while it might be a single father with an invulnerability complex on the way, it could very well also be an entire police strike squad. Or a half-dozen gun-toting cyberbabe-rejects from the army. Or something else he couldn't imagine.

Whatever was coming through the door, he was prepared for it, as best as he thought possible. That's just something people who get themselves into leadership positions of organizations that regularly deal with violence do. This is all IMHO, of course.

I really don't think Thin knew jack about J^2, beyond the sort of things Durga found out the very first time she looked at him (such as his name oddity). Because, quite simply, if you were someone with as much at stake as Thin, and with as much self-obsession (he wants Jan to love him, when he could've just as easily solved his problem by shooting her in the head), and you knew a SPARTAN, whatever the version number, was coming, would You allow him anywhere near you? Considering the stories the army puts out about those guys?

IMO, Thin thought J^2 was nothing more than a do-gooder, like his daughter, that thought he was a big dog because he knew how to fight. Otherwise he would have greeted J^2 with automated machine guns and napalm. IMO.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:54 pm
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Wainamoinen
Veteran


Joined: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 126
Location: On a little planet I like to call Earth...

 		hmmm, I have a strange thoery for you all to ponder:

What if Thin is some "tweacked" gangster? Like a streat version of a SPARTAN... maybe in the future they drug deal like they do now but w/ miracals or other physical inhancements.

Quote:

Thin:Retirement comes sudden to people like you and me
Jan:I'm nothing like you
Thin:We'll see...


why would he want a young girl to work for him just because she whoooped him in biliards? He obvoiusly knew she was "tweacked".

this made me think it is a pos.

If he is "tweacked" or something similar that would explain why he recocnized her "inhancements".
I gues I should say he was "tweacked" since he's dead now...
Wink

Well, I'm to tired to think about anyother reasons.

He probably wasn't, but ya never know! I just thought I'd throw it out there, even though I may not think it's true.

goodnight (yawn)

PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:40 am
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Sather
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Joined: 12 Sep 2004
Posts: 18

 		Does anyone think we'll see more of Monster Ann in the next set of wavs. After all the recipe is for Cough Syrup, and who needs that more than Monster Ann.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:05 am
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daboking
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Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 486
Location: 2nd star to the right

 		good thought, Wainamoinen. and sather, though I do not think this is likely, I hope so now just because of your joke. Razz
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:00 am
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Smoke
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
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Location: Atlanta, GA
Quote:
Why would they have netted him and broken down the floor in the first place if they didn't know something?


They did know something; mainly that James was ex-military, special forces. This was common knowledge, as it has been spoken about by several characters who are not highly ranked or friends with superintelligent AIs.

Quote:
If they thought he was normal, then why didn't they just wait to handcuff him at the door?


See above. They knew James was combat capable, and would not go down easily.

Quote:
To be that prepared for somebody means that you know somewhat what he's capable of.


They weren't *that* prepared, is the thing. To be that prepared would be to weild something that even a SPARTAN couldn't break out of. Is it so hard to believe that Thin has a capable brain in his head, and thus was able to use some simple logic and planning?

Quote:
The double-take was only a natural reaction; as in not believing until you see it with your own eyes.. In fact, Thin and Ann were the only people who had to know what James was about, so maybe their lackeys just found out and were in awe.


You're beginning to contradict yourself. It is a stupid leader who does not inform his men of what they are going up against. If Thin is some sort of hyperintelligent rogue SPARTAN III like some of you believe, then he would have told his men, because that's what *any* leader would have done.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:28 am
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Arana
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 353
Location: shallow grave

 		Went down too easy?
My spec on J^2 going down too easy comes just from the clips. I have never played Halo or read any of the books, so all my spartan knowledge comes from the clips (and from postings here that I have not relied on). It seems like the clips have lots of hints leading us to this conclusion.

1. James appears to have always been armed and pulled his gun in an instant.
2. Jan believed that her Dad was more capable than she was:
Quote:
Jan: I've been tweaked up, haven't I? Not like you and dad, I know that, but some.

3. Jan was able to take a gun from a man who had it in his hand with his finger on the trigger before he could shoot her and shoot the man (Gene) in the foot:
Quote:
Jan: Alright, on your feet, Gene. I'm just going to put the gun in your hand, thistime. That's it. Yeah, get your finger nice and comfy right on the trigger. Come on, Big Dog. Bring it, baby.

4. Jan could fall three stories without any ill effects.
5. Others were amazed at James' reflexes:
Quote:
McKaskill: You really drive offline? No roadware, nothing?
JJ: Baltimore, right?
McKaskill: You must have some kind of reflexes.

6. There is no hard evidence of any special capabilities of Thin in his confrontation with James.
7. James had a minimum of three seconds after landing (count them in the clip) before anyone shot a net on him.

If James was faster and stronger than Jan, that three seconds should have been an eternity for him. He should have had a gun, or been able to
Quote:
kill a man armed only with a stick of chewing gum
even if he didn't.

That he stood there and waited for them to net him seems odd to me. The "I'm not alone" might have been a bluff, but shouldn't Thin have then asked his minions to look around if he was as smart as others say and was checking all possibilities? He just blew it off and went straight for James. Inconsistent with exceedingly well-prepared hypothesis.

It doesn't seem to bother some, but these writers seem to be doing better than to putting things in for no reason. Although I am perfectly willing to believe that they put them in for the alternative reason of misleading us!

Also, there no evidence that Monster Ann had a pre-existing respiratory condition. She is coughing because there was an explosion of dust and debris in a small room she occupied.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:03 pm
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HalfMoon
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Joined: 07 Oct 2004
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Location: SoCal
Quote:
My spec on J^2 going down too easy comes just from the clips. I have never played Halo or read any of the books, so all my spartan knowledge comes from the clips (and from postings here that I have not relied on).


Right, my opinion on it not being odd at all also comes from the clips solely. I believe it was "One_point_oh" or somewhere around there that mentioned the popular conception of SPARTANS.

Quote:
It seems like the clips have lots of hints leading us to this conclusion.


And my only point, in the end, is that the "seems" there is based entirely on opinion. I listened to the same clips as you, and have come to a different conclusion. I'm also wary of reading too much into any set of clues, but that's more a factor of my psyche than anything else. Smile

Quote:
1. James appears to have always been armed and pulled his gun in an instant.


And nothing in the clips leading up to his death suggested otherwise. Remember, he did get through every other layer of security Thin put in place. Whether that was with a gun or a pack of chewing gum is of course up for speculation.

Quote:
3. Jan was able to take a gun from a man who had it in his hand with his finger on the trigger before he could shoot her and shoot the man (Gene) in the foot:


When she was prepared and Gene was already scared. A minor point, perhaps, but still relevant.

Quote:
4. Jan could fall three stories without any ill effects.


Again, she was prepared for it. We could also argue semantics(though I'd prefer not to) and point out that she could jump three stories, as opposed to "fall"

Quote:
5. Others were amazed at James' reflexes:(snip)
6. There is no hard evidence of any special capabilities of Thin in his confrontation with James.
7. James had a minimum of three seconds after landing (count them in the clip) before anyone shot a net on him.

If James was faster and stronger than Jan, that three seconds should have been an eternity for him. He should have had a gun,


The point I keep getting stuck on is a simple one, though: all of that was after he had fallen through a floor, unexpectedly. Three seconds can be an eternity for someone tweaked like J^2 or Jan, but it is also an extremely short time to recover from essentially getting slammed into the ground at forty feet per second. And nothing is suggesting that he didn't, initially, have a gun. He got dropped through a floor, after all.

Quote:
That he stood there and waited for them to net him seems odd to me.


And what I disagree with in detail is the idea that "he stood there". He did not jump down through a convenient hole in the ceiling. He did not calmly step into the middle of Thin's goons. He got caught in a clever and deceptively simple trap: the floor dropped out from under him. Even(and I apologize for referencing the books here) the Master Chief got taken by surprise on occasion, and the only thing that saved him from becoming crispy was the shield built into his armor.
The fact that J^2 was capable of getting up and ripping through the nets in what little time he took to recover from that drop is a testament to his abilities.

J^2 was incredibly tweaked, I agree. But even so, he was still just human, not a demi-god. SPARTANs die, and SPARTANs that go charging head-long into situations that demand things like back-up and preparation die a lot.

Quote:
It doesn't seem to bother some, but these writers seem to be doing better than to putting things in for no reason. Although I am perfectly willing to believe that they put them in for the alternative reason of misleading us!


I just disagree that anything in particular was put into this particular part of the story, aside from the lesson that "Even super-soldiers make mistakes." I believe that the intent of this episode was to tell us all that the tweaked are still killable, and still human, and no where near invincible or unbeatable. That even a street punk, if he's smart enough and knows how to prepare, can take down a much-vaunted SPARTAN, even if only a 1-point-0. They spent several weeks showing us how tough Jan and J^2 were, and with this one they showed us how vulnerable they still are, despite their strengths.

Just MHO, of course.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:41 pm
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Arana
Unfettered


Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 353
Location: shallow grave

 		Halfmoon,

Yeah, I recoginze that all my SPEC is just MHO, that's what SPEC is. Right now, given the most recent clips, your logic is looking a lot better than mine!
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 2:23 am
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HalfMoon
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Joined: 07 Oct 2004
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Quote:
Yeah, I recoginze that all my SPEC is just MHO, that's what SPEC is.



Heh, you're absolutely right. Sorry about hammering that. I've had some bad experiences recently on another board that left me kinda scarred Wink

One of the things that's most fun about this ARG is the way SPEC, any SPEC, can get completely twisted around by a new set of wavs. Twisted Evil

PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 9:56 am
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