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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): General/Updates
[UPDATE] Rogue Process Destroyed!
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Buzzkill247
Decorated

Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 187
Location: Galesville WI

 		Once again - Phaedra is all too logical in her reasonings

But still - that blood curdling scream!!! and to know I was on the other end of the phone with aliendial who was realying the info to chappy that captured and delted SP - a part of me cringed as I listened.......
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"Master Chief.. What are you doing on that ship?" "Finishing this war...." - Finale....?

"I know what the lady likes..." - Sgt. Johnson

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:48 pm
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EvilJester
Greenhorn

Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 9
Location: Boise, Idaho
Quote:
If you look at the Recipe 7 page, the bee is still turqoise and purple. I checked to make sure and it was yellow and black... but then I refreshed again and it was back.

Could this be a mistake by the PMs/Melissa to rid of all things SP? Or is this a sign she is still kicking?[


Umm, according to a phone conversation I had with SP, her favorite colors are Purple and Turquoise. I mentioned my hair was this color and she told me those were her favorite colors, you can check that out in the end of a wave file: http://www.ilovebees.com/friends/funnest.wav

ANyways, I'm really sad to hear the news about SP.

I was hoping to receive a call from her today, I was planning on asking her out on a date. I'm pretty much in love with her.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:53 pm
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Ranger D
Unfettered

Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 522
Location: Nor Cal

 		Don't get me wrong. I'm not mad. This game is amazing. It's like nothing I've ever experienced before.

There has been no black and white here yet, trust me. This game has been nothing but shades of grey. Who's side do you choose? Melissa? the Sleeping Princess? Dana? Do you play all three sides?

I don't blame Dana for the situation she was in. I would've probably done the same thing if I was her. You can't blame her.

I think I'm kinda ticked off the most at Mel, because she didn't tell us what we were doing would get the SP destroyed. (notice how I didn't say murdered? I'm accepting it. Slowly Smile) Then again, if she did inform us, a large majority of the players would revolt, and bad things would happen.

We have reached the final act so all bets are off now (they weren't before? Smile). I'm expecting updates on random days, Dana making live calls, anything.

And I'm going to enjoy every minute of it.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:56 pm
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SuperJerms
Unfettered


Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 537
Location: indiana

 		Re: Take a deep breath, everyone...
Phaedra wrote:
Okay, you're probably all going to hate me for this, but here goes:

Remember what the SP was. She was the memories a functioning AI was not supposed to have, or at least, not supposed to be able to access.

...

Are we sure that her death is a bad thing for the reintegration/sanity of Melissa/Durga? The reason AIs aren't supposed to remember who they were, I assume, is because it would impair their ability to function and possibly drive them insane.

It's one thing for Durga to remember that she was created from Yasmine. But as far as we can tell, the SP was Yasmine. And I don't think that's a good thing for an AI to be carrying around.

...

I'm not sure that in the end, this is entirely a bad thing.


One major problem with this logic that I'm seeing. It fails to consider--why SP was there in the first place? We don't know, but why would ONI leave something so volatile in their super-powerful AI's? It would be absolute tom-foolery on their parts unless it was necessary. Think about it...she must have been there for a reason.

The logic that it's good to get rid of SP is akin to saying, "One of the pistons in my car's is bent slightly. I should somehow totally eliminate it from my engine." Perhaps it was there for a reason and should be fixed instead of destroyed? Perhaps it's unwise for an AI to delete hidden parts of itself that it doesn't understand?

Darketnal wrote:
A word of background for those who have not thoroughly studied the SPDR logs from the earliest moments after the shipwreck.......

......Melissa thoroughly studied the SPDR logs? Then she knows about the flea.....shouldn't she?


Melissa might just know what ONI programs do when they regress into ERES mode, she didn't have to review the logs.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:03 pm
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hmrpita
Unfettered


Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 629
Location: East of the Ocean, West of the Bay, Close to many faults

 		Objective Compassion vs. Compassionate Objectivism?
ob·jec·tive: expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations.

com·pas·sion: sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it.


I wish I had gone out earlier today and sang "Row, Row, Row Your Boat" with the Sleeping Princess, Ranger D, Mazian, and Adam.

I did get to talk to Melissa today again, along with several other members of the San Francisco Killer Bees, 49th Regulator Division (dudebrofella recorded it--should be up soon). I stammered and stumbled and was generally unhelpful to her. If only I had said "blah blah blah" to her, exclusively.



A bee's life is but short. During spring and summer—the most strenuous periods of foraging—a worker bee, as a rule, does not live more than four or five weeks… Threatened by all kinds of dangers during their foraging flights, many workers die before they have reached even that age.

--Karl Von Frisch, The Dancing Bees
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:19 pm
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SuperJerms
Unfettered


Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 537
Location: indiana

 		Re: Objective Compassion vs. Compassionate Objectivism?
hmrpita wrote:
A bee's life is but short. During spring and summer—the most strenuous periods of foraging—a worker bee, as a rule, does not live more than four or five weeks… Threatened by all kinds of dangers during their foraging flights, many workers die before they have reached even that age.

--Karl Von Frisch, The Dancing Bees


Oh wow, and as Durga said, "a bee dies if it stings you. but it can also sting you when it's dead."

what if SP could sting from the grave?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:21 pm
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Phaedra
Lurker v2.0


Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 4033
Location: Here, obviously

 		Re: Take a deep breath, everyone...
SuperJerms wrote:
Phaedra wrote:
Okay, you're probably all going to hate me for this, but here goes:

Remember what the SP was. She was the memories a functioning AI was not supposed to have, or at least, not supposed to be able to access.

...

Are we sure that her death is a bad thing for the reintegration/sanity of Melissa/Durga? The reason AIs aren't supposed to remember who they were, I assume, is because it would impair their ability to function and possibly drive them insane.

It's one thing for Durga to remember that she was created from Yasmine. But as far as we can tell, the SP was Yasmine. And I don't think that's a good thing for an AI to be carrying around.

...

I'm not sure that in the end, this is entirely a bad thing.


One major problem with this logic that I'm seeing. It fails to consider--why SP was there in the first place? We don't know, but why would ONI leave something so volatile in their super-powerful AI's? It would be absolute tom-foolery on their parts unless it was necessary. Think about it...she must have been there for a reason.


Tom-foolery. Mad props for word use.

I don't think it was intentional. They can't just create an AI. They can't actually replicate a human brain from scratch -- they need to base it off an actual human brain which tells me that they haven't unlocked all the secrets of how the brain works. If they understood it completely, they wouldn't need a human (who dies in the process, remember -- that's an awfully large price to pay) for a template. And also, if they understood it completely, I don't think AIs would go rampant.

They don't understand it. Ergo, all the AIs might have a Sleeping Princess locked away somewhere, but most of them never come in contact with an alien artifact, get catapulted back to 2004, get stuck on primitive hardware (I imagine it must be something like a human being suddenly being stuck in the body of, say, a bird -- very limiting), etc. Something "shook" the Princess loose. On the Durga end, she's actually been told who she was, been spying on her brother, and now, actually met him. These are things that don't happen to most AIs. Maybe they've never happened until now.

It may mean that the entire AI-making process will now have to be evaluated. But in any case, I don't think they have as much fine control over the process as you seem to -- I think they have very little.

Kali, who's still here and would rather just tell me what to write than log in herself, has just [WILDLY SPEC'D] that analyzing Melissa without her SP component may allow them to save Cortana in Halo 2.[/WILD SPEC]

Quote:
The logic that it's good to get rid of SP is akin to saying, "One of the pistons in my car's is bent slightly. I should somehow totally eliminate it from my engine." Perhaps it was there for a reason and should be fixed instead of destroyed? Perhaps it's unwise for an AI to delete hidden parts of itself that it doesn't understand?


I don't think it's a good analogy (I'm always leery of mechanizing the mind) -- I think it's like realizing that the way you've constructed your engine means that some of the parts are actually interfering with its function. Therefore, you redesign the engine to eliminate those parts, and replace their function with something else.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:24 pm
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kulpdogg
Veteran

Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 81
Location: Allentown, PA, USA

 		wow.

i think the .wav says:

Melissa: 20 seconds....
Melissa: good. we got her!
SP: It's you! I Thought you (were?) (locked?) I thought you couldn't see me!
Oh (help me?) I'm so sorry, Im sorry, you promise you won't leave me alone?!, no please(ma'am?), NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO AHHHHH!!!!
Melissa: Sometimes a mistake is the last thing you make.
Thank you crew member, you did not dissapoint me.

anyone wanna help?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:26 pm
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SuperJerms
Unfettered


Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 537
Location: indiana

 		Re: Take a deep breath, everyone...
Phaedra wrote:
I don't think it's a good analogy (I'm always leery of mechanizing the mind)


A fair point. But I don't know that it's like re-engineering the engine either. Perhaps we should stick with the mind...it's like saying, "the subject has seizures which we have decided comes from region x in the brain. Let's just burn away that section of the brain to fix it." <insert tragedy here>
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:55 pm
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The Adam
Boot

Joined: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 61

 		Melissa's been "using" us from the beginning. I've already said it once before, and I'll say it again.

Who's reponsible for the successes of an obstinate AI who continually vowed to destroy a person who mistakenly hurt her?

Melissa's always been bad news, and we've been helping her out the entire time, regardless of consequences, just for the chance to hear some pretty sound files.

In other news, who wants to guess what I was up to today? Embarassed

---The Adam, Private First Class and paying for it

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:32 am
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nobodyman
Veteran

Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 88
Location: Gilbert, Arizona

 		So, I know that Dana had agreed to assist Melissa in tracking down the SP, but do we know *how* she helped? It seems like we did the work... right? What was Dana's role?

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:38 am
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vector
Unfettered


Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 721
Location: Portland OR

 		check her blog. basicaly she watched for when the princess was in diffrent pages and then put up the tags that we relayed to Melissa. Melissa then burned the infected area, burning out SP. all very sad.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:48 am
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nobodyman
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Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 88
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
vector wrote:
check her blog. basicaly she watched for when the princess was in diffrent pages and then put up the tags that we relayed to Melissa. Melissa then burned the infected area, burning out SP. all very sad.

Ah, gotcha. At the time that I write this, blogspot.com is down so I'll try later.

Quite curious to see what will happen w/ the Friday update, or whether we'll receive an email from the flea.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 3:16 am
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Fenwicked
Decorated


Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 221
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Gram wrote:
So how are we going to get our "Most Confidential" Wav's now? huh?


Melissa wrote:
Will make transmissions regarding subjects 4 and 5 available to trusted crew.

From the Hives page. Now that-
Melissa, on the 404 page wrote:
For the first time literally since awakening in this place, I can feel with some confidence that I am virus free

Now that she feels her opposition has been eliminated or bent to her will (as with Dana) she has no reason to hide information from her loyal, trusted crew.

And,
SuperJerms wrote:
Darketnal wrote:
A word of background for those who have not thoroughly studied the SPDR logs from the earliest moments after the shipwreck.......

......Melissa thoroughly studied the SPDR logs? Then she knows about the flea.....shouldn't she?



Melissa might just know what ONI programs do when they regress into ERES mode, she didn't have to review the logs

If she's even aware of their existence, there's no reason for her not to have read them. Especially since the Flea has made her so intent on seeking the truth. It seems to me that would involve studying any resource she can obtain. But I think it's the Flea's hold on her that's responsible for her apparent obliviousness to that very same hold. (I know, my head is spinning too) In other words, it's very likely she would have read the SPDR logs, but the Flea on her shoulder won't let her realize what actually happened, or else she would try to !detach the little bugger.

And about the specs that deleting the Princess or the SPDR is "derampancizing" Melissa, what if the opposite is true? What if we're getting a glimpse into exactly how rampancy takes place. An AI eventually becomes aware of it's various psychological components and eliminates certain ones in an effort to make itself more efficient and/or powerful. But in doing so, it inadvertently removes parts of itself that that need to balance each other to keep it "sane" so to speak. A similar chain of events might take place within the confines of every AI as it goes rampant, but this time we get to watch it taking place because of the hardware Melissa happens to be on right now.
Just throwing that out there.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 3:22 am
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Digitally l33t
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Joined: 13 Oct 2004
Posts: 72
Location: Greenwich Village, New York
Fenwicked wrote:


If she's even aware of their existence, there's no reason for her not to have read them. Especially since the Flea has made her so intent on seeking the truth. It seems to me that would involve studying any resource she can obtain. But I think it's the Flea's hold on her that's responsible for her apparent obliviousness to that very same hold. (I know, my head is spinning too) In other words, it's very likely she would have read the SPDR logs, but the Flea on her shoulder won't let her realize what actually happened, or else she would try to !detach the little bugger.

And about the specs that deleting the Princess or the SPDR is "derampancizing" Melissa, what if the opposite is true? What if we're getting a glimpse into exactly how rampancy takes place. An AI eventually becomes aware of it's various psychological components and eliminates certain ones in an effort to make itself more efficient and/or powerful. But in doing so, it inadvertently removes parts of itself that that need to balance each other to keep it "sane" so to speak. A similar chain of events might take place within the confines of every AI as it goes rampant, but this time we get to watch it taking place because of the hardware Melissa happens to be on right now.
Just throwing that out there.


Well thought out. That would mean it's about to get very frightening.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 3:27 am
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