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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): General/Updates
[META] SWAG LOTTERY!
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Phaedra
Lurker v2.0


Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 4033
Location: Here, obviously

 		Re: Second chance SWAG
KenM wrote:
Ok Daddy. Razz *Ahem* seriously, I want to offer to buy SWAG by proxy for people. I'm not on the lottery senders list, but I'll be at the Austin event and can offer my services as an independent sender. Just PM me and tell me what you want (<a href="t%20shirt" onmouseover="window.status='t-shirt'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">t-shirt</a>, random souvenir etc.) and your method of payment (paypal preferred) for the item + shipping and if it's available in Austin I'll do my best to pick it up for you. Just want to help out a few beekeepers who may have missed out on lottery #1.

Important: I need to get your PM request by 5 p.m. CST (15:00 PST) Thursday. Again this is for any SWAG offered for purchase at the event, freebies not included.


Oh my goodness!

I must have missed you somehow -- I'm very sorry. Would you still like to be on the list?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:59 pm
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KenM
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Joined: 21 Jul 2004
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Location: Tulsa, OK

 		Second chance SWAG
Phaedra wrote:
Quote:
Oh my goodness!

I must have missed you somehow -- I'm very sorry. Would you still like to be on the list?


Sure Phaedra, count me in. I figured I'd tried to join in too late yesterday. But I'd still like to extend my offer via PM if anyone missed out.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:16 pm
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Mazian
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 529
Location: San Francisco, CA

 		Do not read this if you are not prepared for a pro-beekeeper rant.

Daddy wrote:
For any of you "crew" who have just joined and done absolutely nothing to contribute (see Phaedra's description above--too lazy to quote) but would still like some serious SWAG please PM me. I am giving away the actual axon phone booths located throughout NY. Yes, you read correctly. You just have to come dig em out and they're all yours!! ABSOLUTELY FREE!

Act fast..


LOL Laughing Cool Twisted Evil

Krystyn, DecepticonS,

I'm not talking about you guys, or the people who have been here for several weeks (who joined late) and tried to get involved before swag was mentioned or final events were announced. Even those who arrived late but tried to contribute I consider part of this community. (And I repeat this later in this monologue, but it seems important to say this here also) I agree with Phaedra's definition of a contributor.

I do feel a cutoff period is advisable though, an in a purely arbitrary fashion, my cutoff point is similar to Phaedra's: To wit, if someone has not been on before the "Live Combat Training Event" was announced on the 404, and they are only posting about getting to play Halo 2 and wanting swag, I'm definitely going to get pissy and give them the finger that all of they seem to think that Bungie is giving them by not having this event in every city or just caving and releasing Halo 2 early.

Because the PMs have made the DVD so accessible:

  1. You go to a live event, tomorrow evening/night.
  2. You go to one of 27 USA locations and give the super sekret passwords (the one that has been posted many many times here on unfiction.)
  3. You email Dana after Nov 4 and say "pretty please, with a cherry on top, I couldn't get to one of the live events, or to the 27 USA locations, because I live in another frickin' country."


For people to already be planning to pirate the material "just in case," I start getting mad. Mad


Phaedra,

I am in agreement with you on the definition of "Contribution." 110% Even people who got on and gave bad spec (except for the "OMGWTFBBQ Dancing Robots on Aug 24, free copies of Halo 2 Demo will be released at the first axons" people who went away after their spec turned out to be false.) or bad jokes, or sheesh... ANYTHING... I think they should all get preferential treatment for their time invested.


And lastly DecepticonS,

What's up with my furor?

Because it's the right thing to do.

I have been given much by this community and I want to make sure that this community gets something. Not the recent additions (read: last 72 hours or so) who will swarm the event and get the swag to brag about being first. Not because they were part of the community, but because their ego requires such evidence in order to make them feel good about themselves. [/me terminates non-topic rant early]


I apologize if anyone is searching for a word to describe my attitude and comes up with the word "RABID". Rolling Eyes I do, however, feel that there has been, in the last 3 days, a dramatic influx of people who have joined unfiction solely to be "on the inside of the swag giveaway" who have shown generally a certain level of disrespect to those who are less fortunate than they (or I) with their constant "me me me me me." (And not just here at unfiction.)


PS, I do not dislike anyone who's name I've used above. I just happen to be very passionate (or Rabid if you prefer Rolling Eyes ) about the topic at hand.

I need you moderates tho. I really do. To put a nice face on what is otherwise a very reasonable ideal. That those who participated in ILB should all get something out of it, as long as SWAG is being handed out.


And those that didn't, should get SWAG, only if there's enough left.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:24 pm
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

 		judging
um, do we even know that there will be any swag to give away here?

I can't agree more wholeheartedly with Krystyn that judging players and their contributions is not the way we operate at unfiction. Never have and never will.

I mean, some people might think that only posts relevant to the game should count; some by number of phones answered; some people might go for length or number of posts; some people may go by the wiki-- one of which crashed and the other of which had limited access...

and then there are people who are just shy and lurk and never post. One of these shy lurkers is a friend of mine who I got into the New York event . He will be getting a DVD and swag. But if he suddenly posted here, you would think he was brand new.

So how to decide???

I have already opted out of the whole lottery system, so have fun with it!!!
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:37 pm
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Lojack
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Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 96
Location: Los Angeles

 		Well, I have a feeling that the event locations giveaway would be the same as the cache (except for possibly the lanyard.) The obvious bonus for the four big sites being multiplayer. I suppose that temporary seller permits could be had and they would have a table or booth set up for goods, but it seems unlikely to me.

And for those who are near a cache location, check the axon thread to see if other beekeepers in the area are trying to do a little get together. Have fun, meet some new people. Who knows, maybe you'll find some great folks as teammates for multiplayer!
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:06 pm
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Meridianchild
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Joined: 07 Oct 2004
Posts: 66

 		I agree with you rose. eventhough I have a low post count, i've been lurking on here since the begining. I just have forum anxiety Shocked.

And I understand that when you look like you just joined here in unfiction that you can't really prove your involvement with the game. Or At least it's very hard. For instance, i didn't offer much in the way of posts here, but I still spent a lot of time and effort on this game trying to figure out the puzzles for myself, and ordering the axon wavs the way I thought they went. Most of my work on this game was done on my own. Something like that is tough to prove. And who's to say that some (not necessarilly all) of the new posters haven't done the same.

I understand how you feel though Mazian, eventhough there are many of who who played more of an active role in the game than i did, I still feel a little shafted that someone could just walk into the event never having heard of this game and earn a spot on the guest list just because it has something to do with Halo 2. But, in any event, the PMs have made the decision to open this event to the public and I think that we, as beekeepers and the primary force in driving this game to this climax, are just gonna have to suck it up.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:15 pm
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krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 26 Sep 2002
Posts: 3651
Location: Is not Chicago

 		I once stood in line for three hours at the Merchandise Mart in Chicago so I could give a gift to No Doubt, who would in turn 'give' my gift to some needy child, in a Toys for Tots promotion.

It was worth it, in that sort of "I got to make total eye contact with Gwen Stefani!!!" sort of way.



I still don't own any No Doubt CDs.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:08 pm
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ariock
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
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Mazian wrote:

I am in agreement with you on the definition of "Contribution." 110% Even people who got on and gave bad spec (except for the "OMGWTFBBQ Dancing Robots on Aug 24, free copies of Halo 2 Demo will be released at the first axons" people who went away after their spec turned out to be false.) or bad jokes, or sheesh... ANYTHING... I think they should all get preferential treatment for their time invested.


All I know is, I expect to see some dancing robots on Thursday!

-- -- -- --

This space reserved for dancing robots...
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:23 pm
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Phaedra
Lurker v2.0


Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 4033
Location: Here, obviously

 		More Clear?
I thought I had sufficiently clarified my position, but from some of the comments it seems like perhaps I haven't. So, here we go.

Quote:
But, in any event, the PMs have made the decision to open this event to the public and I think that we, as beekeepers and the primary force in driving this game to this climax, are just gonna have to suck it up.


I don't feel that the PMs letting in anyone who registers is in any way inappropriate.

To the contrary, it's completely appropriate. They can't tell who's been shy and lurking, so the only fair way to go about it is as they did: assume knowledge of the event = participation.

The position I outlined above regarding "leeches," as far as I'm concerned, applies solely to the Swag Lottery.

If I were the PMs, my policy would be the same as theirs -- making sure anyone who followed the game, no matter how silent or invisible, has at least the opportunity to attend the end-game or at least get the DVD clearly trumps the concern that people might suddenly take interest solely to get the DVD. Everyone, regardless of level of participation, should have that chance.

I, on the other hand, do not feel obligated to make sure that anyone who followed ILB has a chance to participate in the lottery. In this case, I feel, better the priorities be reversed: just as it's better that some non-beekeepers get the chance to participate in the training event so that no one gets left out; I think that it's better that we risk excluding shy lurkers from the lottery so that those who have been active members here take priority.

The lottery is not part of the game. It exists solely as an opportunity for members of this community to help out other members of the community. The lottery is not the only way to get swag, and it is not, I repeat, NOT intended to be a means of getting the DVD. The PMs told everyone how to do that. If you're not coming and you want a DVD, go through the appropriate (official) channels.

The lottery exists so that those members of this community who aren't able to attend can receive a little bit of what they might get if they did go. I extended the invitation to those who had contributed in other ways, such as getting a lot of axons, in case they were part of an axon hunter team with members here.

This whole thing exists as a courtesy -- to the members of this community. Not the ILB community as a whole, because that's too big for little old me to handle, but the forum community.

If you choose not to post here, that's fine. You're still a member of the community of beekeepers, but you've sort of excluded yourself from being a member of this particular section of the larger community. And no one's saying you have to be part of this group. There's a group of people that posts regularly on Dana's blog. I read it occasionally, but I certainly wouldn't consider myself part of that community, because I haven't joined it.

Rose wrote:
um, do we even know that there will be any swag to give away here?


No, we don't. Dana's email to me was ambiguous. But, in case there is, and in case there is merchandise for those who want to purchase by proxy, I feel that it is better to have the preparations in place.

Rose wrote:
I can't agree more wholeheartedly with Krystyn that judging players and their contributions is not the way we operate at unfiction. Never have and never will.


<sigh> You seem determined to attribute the worst possible motives to me on this thread. May I inquire as to why?

I'm not trying to judge people's contributions. I'm not ranking people's priority in terms of my subjective estimation of how much their contributions are "worth." I would not presume to do so.

I'm setting forth an either-or proposition. If you have participated in any way, shape or form, you were eligible to participate in the lottery. I didn't exclude anyone who PM'd me, except for individuals who admitted that they hadn't been participating.

So no, I'm not "judging players and their contributions." I'm merely trying to make sure that those who participate in an offer that was extended, as a courtesy, to members of the forum community are in fact members of the forum community.

Quote:
I mean, some people might think that only posts relevant to the game should count; some by number of phones answered; some people might go for length or number of posts; some people may go by the wiki-- one of which crashed and the other of which had limited access...

and then there are people who are just shy and lurk and never post. One of these shy lurkers is a friend of mine who I got into the New York event . He will be getting a DVD and swag. But if he suddenly posted here, you would think he was brand new.

So how to decide???


Again, it appears that you did not read my post with any particular care. I specifically stated that I was not ranking members, by "number of phones answered...length or number of posts..." or anything else. I was simply limiting the criteria to participation. Any participation. Again, it is not and never has been a question of ranking. Rather it is an either-or proposition.

As for your friend, good for him. I hope he has fun at the event. And he deserves to go and get the DVD. As he is clearly doing, there are other ways to get stuff.

You seem to be under the impression I'm trying to judge people's worth as players. I'm not. I'm simply asking that those who participate in the lottery have participated in the community.

Read carefully, everyone: Any and all judgement that I perform in this thread applies solely to the lottery, which has been organized solely as a courtesy to the forum community.

Quote:
I have already opted out of the whole lottery system, so have fun with it!!!


You know, I'm trying, but this whole discussion is making it more difficult to have fun.

If you all want to argue about the cosmic worth of various players or types of players, go do it in another thread. If you have criticism about the way I'm handling the organization of the lottery, at this point, unless you want to take it over and radically restructure it at the last minute, I'm going to have to say: too bad.

I asked for feedback in the beginning. If you think it should have been handled differently, that was your chance. It's a bit late to offer them now.

If you have suggestions to streamline or simplify the process, they are still welcome.

Quote:
Well, I have a feeling that the event locations giveaway would be the same as the cache (except for possibly the lanyard.) The obvious bonus for the four big sites being multiplayer. I suppose that temporary seller permits could be had and they would have a table or booth set up for goods, but it seems unlikely to me.


That may be -- in fact, from Dana's reluctance to tell me anything specific, it seems likely. Or, the PMs don't know. But in any case, as I said above, I feel it's better to have the system in place even if it turns out to be superfluous. The worst that can happen is we can come back from the event and say, "Sorry, people, there wasn't anything there!"
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:35 pm
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Mazian
Unfettered

Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 529
Location: San Francisco, CA

 		Re: More Clear?
Phaedra wrote:
.
.
.
Rose wrote:
I can't agree more wholeheartedly with Krystyn that judging players and their contributions is not the way we operate at unfiction. Never have and never will.


<sigh> You seem determined to attribute the worst possible motives to me on this thread. May I inquire as to why?
.
.
.


I was trying to figure out why you felt like Rose was being critical of you specifically, since that isn't the Rose that most of us know and love. Rose has consistantly been a positive, moderate voice in the unfiction forums, and I have greatly enjoyed reading her speculations and her suggestions to the community. So I felt I needed to do some research by reading the entire thread again.

And you know what I discovered. Rose has been rather critical of this project since it was announced. I'm not sure that I understand where the comes from, since I never assumed this was anything but voluntary, which seems to be the first point she made in response.

And as to sermons or tirades, if you don't like them, you do what most other people do. You turn down the volume (read: don't open the topic.)

Confused

I'll stop repeating my opinion of things, I think I've dented a few SPARTAN helmets by now. Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:56 pm
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darkmoonz
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Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 330
Location: Gainesville, FL

 		basically, people just need to settle down...

rose, we all know you don't like the lottery, or rather that you don't want to be involved with it...

mazian, thank you for being so hardcore about the copyright laws that this fine country has, but it seems like you've been yelling at people about it... i think that the people who have been here for a while (and since we can't judge a person by number of posts or anything else, assume that means everyone) know that if the dvd is protected, they can't have someone burn them, so their request comes only at the assumption that it's not protected...

people, we've been awesome for the last few months (except for a few disasters...) (: ... so can we please just be cool now?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:13 pm
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Phaedra
Lurker v2.0


Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 4033
Location: Here, obviously

 		Re: More Clear?
Mazian wrote:
Phaedra wrote:
.
.
.
Rose wrote:
I can't agree more wholeheartedly with Krystyn that judging players and their contributions is not the way we operate at unfiction. Never have and never will.


<sigh> You seem determined to attribute the worst possible motives to me on this thread. May I inquire as to why?
.
.
.


I was trying to figure out why you felt like Rose was being critical of you specifically, since that isn't the Rose that most of us know and love. Rose has consistantly been a positive, moderate voice in the unfiction forums, and I have greatly enjoyed reading her speculations and her suggestions to the community. So I felt I needed to do some research by reading the entire thread again.


Well, Rose and I don't seem to frequent many of the same threads, so perhaps if I had the prior experience with her that many here have had, I would have been less taken aback by her first post in this thread.

Perhaps it's just a difference in styles. For example, I think my writing style tends to be a bit more formal than the norm here, and people interpret that in different ways. That's the joy of the written medium -- you can't hear my tone of voice or look to my facial expression for cues as to the intended tone. Some people read it as being very polite, some people read it as being cold, some people have taken it for anger when it was just disagreement, some people have taken it for polite disagreement when I was expressing annoyance, etc.

As for my style in the first post, I more or less assumed that those who were going to bother reading all the way through it would be those who were already leaning toward participating. As I mentioned before, the fundraising style and "sermon" references were tongue-in-cheek -- the large majority of the recipients is planning to pay their own postage, so being a sender should be financially free for most people, requiring only the effort of collecting the swag and sending it out. But, as noted above, it's hard to determine how one should interpret the tone of a post.

It's possible that I read Rose's post as more antagonistic than she intended it. <shrug> I can't tell. So I decided to ask.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:27 pm
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Kali
Decorated

Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 162

 		Re: judging
rose wrote:
um, do we even know that there will be any swag to give away here?


No. We don't. But then again, Melissa has frequently been trying to get us to work together as a team to acheive goals. She has complimented us on our organizational skills, even at times when they were not necessary for success. Being prepared with an infrastructure to handle what *might* happen has been a part of this game just as much as playing with prepositions.

Quote:
I can't agree more wholeheartedly with Krystyn that judging players and their contributions is not the way we operate at unfiction. Never have and never will.


I'm sorry, where in Phaedra's post did it say anything to the effect that "exclusion from the Lottery was our indication to you that you were a worthless member of the community?" Oh, that's right, it doesn't. Phaedra never judged the CONTENT of contributions, nor even the FREQUENCY. All she does is check to see if your name is on the 404 page or if you joined the forum PRIOR to the announcement of the event. It didn't matter how often you posted, how long your posts were, or whether they were at all helpful to anyone.

Quote:
I mean, some people might think that only posts relevant to the game should count; some by number of phones answered; some people might go for length or number of posts; some people may go by the wiki-- one of which crashed and the other of which had limited access...


This was something to assist members of OUR (unfiction) community. People who play in the chat (a place I have personally never been) are perfectly free to do whatever they want to support their own community. If they did something similar to this, then they're welcome to show me a big DO NOT ENTER sign, because, guess what, I'm NOT PART OF THEIR COMMUNITY. There's no blame attached to that. Unless I start pissing and whining about it.

Quote:
and then there are people who are just shy and lurk and never post. One of these shy lurkers is a friend of mine who I got into the New York event . He will be getting a DVD and swag. But if he suddenly posted here, you would think he was brand new.


Yeah, what's your point? Your friend is one of the lucky lurkers who can attend an event. This thread is not for him, unless he wants to be a sender.

This whole thing started because, as a quasi-lurker myself, I felt guilty that weephun, of all people, couldn't go, but I could. I have relied SO much on the time and energy spent by others in solving puzzles, organizing axon activations and general spec, and here I was, not really contributing, but I get the grand prize. Weephun stood out to me at the time. I wanted to help him. So did a lot of people. After seeing how many forum beekeepers were not going to make it to an event, we thought we could try to help them out too with toys. The events are free to all comers. The toys are our personal property that we are freely giving away to those we have come to rely on in this game. Is that fair, Censored yes. Lurkers didn't help me. I don't begrudge them the opportunity to go to the event, get DVDs from cache locations or by mail and share in the Haloey goodness, but I don't OWE them ANYTHING. There are others to whom I feel somewhat beholden for this wonderful game that I did not have time to play. It is them that I, and I believe others, want to help.

And Phaedra NEVER turned anyone away except those that admitted they had only recently come to ILB (recent as in post-announcement).

As far as I know, NO ONE tried to convince Phaedra that they should be included despite a lack of posts, even though she stated FROM THE BEGINNING that such an argument would be heard out.

Quote:
So how to decide???


All you have are criticisms. Decisions are made by those who show up. I don't recall you suggesting ANY fairer means by which we could determine who should be put in the lottery. If you just don't like the idea of charity, then go to a different thread. We're trying to do something NICE for people.

(Being nice makes my head hurt. Having to JUSTIFY being nice makes my head hurt more Evil or Very Mad )

PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:03 pm
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Buzzkill247
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Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 187
Location: Galesville WI

 		Re: judging
rose wrote:
. One of these shy lurkers is a friend of mine who I got into the New York event . He will be getting a DVD and swag. But if he suddenly posted here, you would think he was brand new.


For those that actually believe this would happen I offer for your ponderance... look to the far left of this post... see my name?... see what's right below it? Yes, the date joined..... so lurkers, albeit quiet could still be identified as being part of a community. Opportunists, however, would also be identifiable as wankers that need to be flamed lol

Quote:

I have already opted out of the whole lottery system, so have fun with it!!!


Well we were..... until it became this sore excuse for a gripe session ("All I have to do is think reeealy mean thoughts... like ...angry... kittens... with... big... spikes...") that has nothing coming from it other than bruised egos.....

So to borrow a phrase from Darkmoonz (I believe it was from him anyway) and put things back on the high road where they belong....

KITTENS!!!! in non-offensive and often soothing blue... Oh yeah and with.....

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy LOTS OF EM!!!!

EDIT: Oh BTW - as far as the lottery thing... GO HAVE FUN!!!!! TELL US ABOUT IT!!! TAKE PICS AND VIDEO!!!! if there is swag SWEET! If there isn't SCREW IT! Have fun anyway! Still tell us about it! Still share the pics! So the lottery is moot overall - other than being a kindly gesture from a gracious community.....
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:12 pm
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Daddy
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 		ONLY 7 PHONE BOOTHS/AXONS LEFT!!!! PM ME!!!!

PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:21 pm
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