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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » GAME: Virtucube
[Puzzle] 1. Red Face - Moon
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

 		the key
In Solitaire the initial order of the deck is the key. The deck you start with to decode a message must be identical to the deck used to encode the message. If not, as we have seen, it is almost impossible to break.

All the actual steps are tedious, but basically mechanical and can be done by anyone with enough patience.

So, I don't know how to resolve the seeming conflict between "use last two letters as a key" and the order of JA53 reverse 52 JB54 as shown on the green face.

It seems even more obvious that until we solve the red face we can't solve the green face.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:05 pm
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Leo
Boot

Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 25
Location: Derbyshire, UK

 		Re: the key
rose wrote:
In Solitaire the initial order of the deck is the key. The deck you start with to decode a message must be identical to the deck used to encode the message. If not, as we have seen, it is almost impossible to break.

All the actual steps are tedious, but basically mechanical and can be done by anyone with enough patience.

So, I don't know how to resolve the seeming conflict between "use last two letters as a key" and the order of JA53 reverse 52 JB54 as shown on the green face.

It seems even more obvious that until we solve the red face we can't solve the green face.


Rose I think your post is misleading.

The 'initial' order of the deck is not the key. To decrypt a Solitaire message the initial order of the deck is [normally] bridge suit order followed by JA53 and JB54.

You then need to establish a method of 'keying' the initial deck, which is usually done by converting a word (known as the passkey) into a method of moving the initial cards.

When you have done this step, then you have the key, and can begin decrypting the code.

In order to do this, we need to work out both the order of the 'initial' deck and the passkey.

The reverse52 clue and the 'BOTTOM CLUB IS WON' clue both hint that the 'initial' deck may start backwards (possibly with the exception of the jokers).

We are also trying to establish the passkey, and it looks like a clue may be hidden in the 10th cycle of the outer ring.

So, there is not necessarily any conflict between the "use last two letters as key" and "JA53 reverse52 JB54" - they could both be legitimate steps to cracking the code.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 4:57 am
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Silicon
Greenhorn

Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 7

 		Re: the key
Leo wrote:
The 'initial' order of the deck is not the key. To decrypt a Solitaire message the initial order of the deck is [normally] bridge suit order followed by JA53 and JB54.

You then need to establish a method of 'keying' the initial deck, which is usually done by converting a word (known as the passkey) into a method of moving the initial cards.


Quote:
Bruce Schneier's Solitaire page:
Solitaire gets its security from the inherent randomness in a shuffled deck of cards.
Keying the Deck:
1. Use identically shuffled decks. A random key is the best. One of the communicants can shuffle up a random deck and then create another, identical deck.
2. Use a bridge ordering. A description of a set of bridge hands that you might see in a newspaper or a bridge book is about a 95-bit key. Agree on a way to take the bridge-hand diagram and convert it into an ordering of the deck. Then agree on a way to put the two jokers into the deck.
3. Use a passphrase to order the deck. This method uses the Solitaire algorithm to create an initial deck ordering.


In this case, Faces 1 and 2 seems to be suggesting the "reverse 52, Joker A at 53 and Joker B at 54" as the key for arranging the deck. "crack deck" seems to imply starting with a fresh deck. I've got a few decks around here, but I was looking at picking up a new one just for this.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:43 pm
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Leo
Boot

Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 25
Location: Derbyshire, UK

 		Re: the key
Silicon wrote:
In this case, Faces 1 and 2 seems to be suggesting the "reverse 52, Joker A at 53 and Joker B at 54" as the key for arranging the deck. "crack deck" seems to imply starting with a fresh deck. I've got a few decks around here, but I was looking at picking up a new one just for this.


We've already tried that it doesn't work.

That's why we believe that the order of the deck above is actually the 'initial' deck and still needs to be keyed with a password by using the Solitaire algorithm.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:05 am
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

 		sorry
I didn't mean to be misleading.

My understanding of solitaire is that the initial order of the deck, and by that I mean the order it is in before moving the jokers and cards, is the thing that must be identical in generating the keystream.

To me that means the "initial order" of the deck is the key... but I see how it can be misleading when a passphrase is added to the needed steps of setting up the "initial order". In this case it seems we need to add the additional step of using the passphrase to order the deck in the correct "initial order".



I see this puzzle as meaning, order the cards
Joker A 53 --->reverse 52----.JokerB 54

and then use the passphrase which seem to be the last two letters of the text to create the "initial order.

I am still generating the keystream based on this ordering, I suppose I shall post it when I am finished, but it looks like it will be tomorrow before I finish.


I thought that the movement of the cards is standard.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:04 pm
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GWing_02
Veteran


Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 144
Location: Seattle, WA

 		The thing about fresh new cards is still bugging me. What difference would that make...!?

Of course, fresh cards start in order...
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:29 pm
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Leo
Boot

Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 25
Location: Derbyshire, UK

 		I should mention that I don't necessarily agree that the letters of the 10th cycle need to be arranged to spell 'use last two letters as key'. That was somebody else's idea, and in my previous post I was just pointing out that it's a valid suggestion and doesn't conflict with the 'JA53 reverse52 JB54' clue.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:10 pm
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AnthraX101
Entrenched

Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Posts: 797

 		Attached you can find a copy of all 1&2 character password decodes for four different decks. It's just the first title sentance at the top.

AnthraX101
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VGhlcmUgaXMgbm8gc3Bvb24u
ll----ll--ll--ll----l---ll---llll---ll--l--ll---llll-ll-l-ll-llll--l-.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:26 pm
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Holycowcow
Boot

Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 12

 		Wow...
Excellent job...! I'm not overly convinced that the anagrammatic answer is the correct one either. I think the tenth sequence is important and it certainly is mysterious that the words last two letters are in there... However... I don't feel comfortable with the YES or the HEY and definitely not with the UH solutions... They just don't ring true to my inner sensor.

I tried scanning all those solutions for more anagrams or simple words, but to no avail. That would seem to indicate at first perusal that A: no two letter passcode is used. Or B: that the initial deck is not necessarily correctly organized.. Or C: we are barking up the wrong tree. Sigh... I feel no further ahead.

I'm hoping that the t-shirt will help me jump over the bump somewhere along the line.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:54 pm
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Ciaran_H
Veteran

Joined: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 123
Location: England, UK

 		I would have done something like the above but I'm kind of new to this sort of thing, and I thought you weren't supposed to brute force these things... or does that not apply since it's not an ARG as such?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:02 am
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Quirk
Boot

Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 49

 		i'm new as well, but i'm pretty sure that brute forcing offline sources is okay. its when the brute force attempt eats up the host bandwidth that its a problem.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:52 am
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Ciaran_H
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Joined: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 123
Location: England, UK

 		Okay then. I wasn't certain about that. Smile

PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:59 am
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badtim
Kilroy

Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 1
Location: St Louis, MO

 		I'm going nuts looking at anagrams of that 10th cycle! Sad
So far the best sounding one was

YOU SHALT USE WEST AS KEY LETTERS

but no luck there.

I'm also trying out use the "X" as part of the tenth cycle, but the best I've
got is

USE TWO SEASHELLS TRY US AS KEY TEXT

but SEASHELLSEASHELL isn't the key either Sad

Anybody else have any anagrams?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:36 am
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Daedalus-XIII
Veteran


Joined: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 74
Location: NRW, Germany

 		Just about a few seconds ago, some idea came to my mind. If you look at the virtucube-announcements, you'll find some comments there.

Maybe with the first two letters, the first two comments are meant which sound quite strange to me:

Quote:


"I cannot believe I was the first to solve the riddle of Lafcadio! Virtuquest really delivers an exciting experience." Steven

"Having the man with green eyes stop by my desk to deliver the pass key made me very popular around the office.Smile " Shannon



Can anyone tell me if this really just refers to some "past" project, or if it maybe was placed on the virtucube-webpage by intent? My thought was: Why should they mention these game comments there and not on some general information page if it really referred to a past-project?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:16 pm
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Silicon
Greenhorn

Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 7
badtim wrote:

I'm also trying out use the "X" as part of the tenth cycle, but the best I've
got is

USE TWO SEASHELLS TRY US AS KEY TEXT

Anybody else have any anagrams?


OX TUSKS RESET A LUSTY EYELASH STEW

I have doubts about this anagram idea panning out.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:35 pm
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