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[hungrygaijin]

The thing is that doesn't really tell us anything new. We knew that the green face was a solitaire code...we just didn't know the key or whatever. That message says "BOTTOM CLUB IS WON" which could mean A of clubs comes first...or last (which fits with the "reverse 52"), however neither of these provide anything that useful when you apply them to the code. Or it could mean something completely different. We're still missing a key piece...any ideas?

[Sin Vraal]

yo

[hungrygaijin]

Yeah, I just meant that it pretty much has been solved...and I still can't tell what the key is for the green face. Sorry if I came off sounding like more of a bummer than I meant to.

[Leo]

This is proving to be really difficult. I believe we definitely need to find a password from this puzzle to key the deck of cards required to decrypt the next puzzle.

The main problem I'm having is that all the online solitaire decryption programs I can find automatically assume that you start with the deck in the normal* position.

*normal: With the deck face up in your hand, start with the Ace of clubs on the bottom, with the rest of the cards in order through diamonds, hearts and spades, so that you would have the King of spades on the top. Then Joker A (JA53) and Joker B (JB54) to finish off.

The clue 'BOTTOM CLUB IS WON' coupled with the 'Reverse52' clue at the top of the code does suggest that we start with the Ace of clubs at the top and the King of spades at the bottom. I think the Jokers stay in the same position, otherwise I would have expected the clue to be 'Reverse54'.

The main problem with not being able to use an online Solitaire decryption program to key the deck is that it takes a LONG time to do by hand. The longer the password used to key the initial deck, the longer it takes. I've had a few educated guesses at the password, but nothing so far has worked.

I think there may be a clue in the phrase 'YOU SHOULD USE THOSE FRESH EFFECTIVE CARDS IT BENEFITS THE GAME' but I can't figure it out.

I also had a moment thinking that there may be a clue in puzzle 3. Remember we're looking for a key - sheet music always has a key, remember Whoopee Goldberg in Jumping Jack Flash? 'The key is the key', unfortunately on this occasion it does not seem to be B-Flat!

[gambit]

You can specify the starting deck here:

http://cif.rochester.edu/~la002k/solitaire.htm#fields

I thought the starting deck (unkeyed) was--from top to bottom--1..52, 53, 54. So if we reverse 52 and leave the jokers alone, we'd have a starting deck of 52..1, 53, 54, right?

Of course, if we don't have the correct starting deck, then the rest is moot. Anyone have thoughts on the starting deck order? Using the link above you can play with starting deck orders and passkeys to see what pops out.

I've tried several things as the passkey, including using no passkey and GAGA, and nothing has worked out. 'THOSE FRESH EFFECTIVE CARDS' doesn't work, neither does 'SOLITAIRE' (SOLITAIRE IS THE FORMULA), or the outer ring of the red face puzzle (with and without the X at the beginning or end).

I did run several of the test vectors (http://www.schneier.com/code/sol-test.txt) to make sure I was using the right info and that the program works as advertised.

Using puzzle 3 for the key is interesting. It seems that GAGA could refer to the boxed in numbers above the 3 and 10 keys. Maybe a key for the cipher can be derived from the number groups above those keys? Or maybe those number groups need to be ordered somehow for entry into the calculator in puzzle 4 and then we'll get the passkey for the cipher?

Those are all the random thoughts I've got.

[Leo]

[enaxor]

Gambit, I've been using that program. Unless I'm doing it wrong(which in my case is a strong possibility) if you put in your own starting deck and then use a passphrase, the program resets the deck to 1-54 to generate the keystream. Try it both ways using solitaire as the key. When I do it I get the same keystream.

Sorry for the repeat of Leo's post, but I'd like to add; perhaps "enjoy a strenuous code" is the PM's way of telling us we have to do it the old fashioned way, pencil and paper.

*edited

[Kizmet]

[Leo]

Yes Enaxor, my thoughts exactly! They've done it to make us work it out the old fashioned way. I don't mind doing it the old fashioned way as long as I've worked out the passkey first. It takes such a long time to just try things on the off-chance.

Kizmet, I'd like to believe that WON means ONE because it would make it so much easier, but if that's the case, why mention it We would have used the Ace of clubs on the bottom anyway.

The way I interpreted it: In order to have won you must have come first, so if 'THE BOTTOM CLUB IS WON' then the Ace of clubs (the bottom club) must come first in the starting deck and not last.

Also, interpreting it as ONE doesn't tie-in with the 'reverse52' clue at the top of the code.

Having said that, I haven't closed my mind to the deck starting in either way.

[AnthraX-Home]

I modified the c++ program to both work with punctuation and to use an arbitrarily keyed deck at the start, including for rekeying. However, it requires a c++ compiler because it's mostly hard coded. If anyone wants it I can post a copy tonight.

I tried many different starting decks with several different keys, but haven't been able to get anything useful yet. I've tried ROTing some of the most likely output too, without success.

AnthraX101

[jzero]

[Varin]

[enaxor]

I just opened a new deck of "Bicycle" cards. The order out of the box, face up, is; 2 Jokers(small-big), Spades(Ace-King), Diamonds(Ace-King), Clubs(King-Ace), and Hearts(King-Ace)....so in this deck the Ace of Clubs is the bottom club. ,

[PotVsKtl]

[xmythx]