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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » GAME: Virtucube
[Puzzle] 1. Red Face - Moon
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aznxasazn
Boot

Joined: 07 Nov 2004
Posts: 62
gambit wrote:
I have no idea how Virtuquest works/thinks when it comes to a puzzle like this. Does everything have significance or are there a lot of red herrings to be sorted through?

I'm inclined to agree with FrcknFrckn about the moon thing. However, when he mentioned that there are two phases to this puzzle, I though of the moon having four phases. What if we're not done with this puzzle?

I question this because the wording of the phrase from the outside ring seems stilted. The phrase from the inside 6x6 was smooth enough. The whole "BOTTOM CLUB IS WON' thing makes me wonder. And what's up with 'FRESH EFFECTIVE CARDS'? What does 'effective' cards have to do with it?

I started to get excited thinking about using every other word of the last phrase:

YOU SHOULD USE THOSE FRESH EFFECTIVE CARDS IT BENEFITS THE GAME BOTTOM CLUB IS WON SOLITAIRE IS THE FORMULA CRACK DECK PLAY WELL ENJOY A STRENUOUS CODE

becomes:

YOU USE FRESH CARDS BENEFITS GAME CLUB WON IS FORMULA DECK WELL A CODE

The 'You use fresh cards' seems like more natural language, but am I trying too hard? The rest of it doesn't really mean anything. So is the language of the outer ring phrase odd just be odd or is it because there's something else for use to find? An anagram? If so, I haven't found it yet!


I think the two phases simply refer to the fact that faces 5 and 6 aren't uploaded yet and they will be uploaded in a "second phase". I know I stretched a bit on the moon thing but at this point I'm grasping at straws to try to figure out a way to solve face 2. I've exhausted just about every idea I've come up with.

I don't think skipping every other word is going to work. That just sounds too choppy. I assume "effective" was used to simply help make 32 words to use on the outside, though I could be wrong (afterall why not have "crack the deck" instead and remove "effective"?).

PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:52 pm
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FrcknFrckn
Boot

Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Posts: 11
aznxasazn wrote:
I think the two phases simply refer to the fact that faces 5 and 6 aren't uploaded yet and they will be uploaded in a "second phase".


No, they referred to the two parts of face 1, the inner 6x6 square and the outer ring. 'Phases' was a bad choice of words on my part - I should've known the 'lunatics' would jump all over that one.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:25 pm
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Sin Vraal
Decorated


Joined: 28 Nov 2002
Posts: 219
Location: NJ

 		heh
FrcknFrckn wrote:
aznxasazn wrote:
I think the two phases simply refer to the fact that faces 5 and 6 aren't uploaded yet and they will be uploaded in a "second phase".


No, they referred to the two parts of face 1, the inner 6x6 square and the outer ring. 'Phases' was a bad choice of words on my part - I should've known the 'lunatics' would jump all over that one.


Hey Frcken^2, you seem frustrated with the group here... have you figured out the solitaire sequence to use and are waiting for us to catch up?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:24 pm
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FrcknFrckn
Boot

Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Posts: 11

 		Re: heh
Sin Vraal wrote:
Hey Frcken^2, you seem frustrated with the group here... have you figured out the solitaire sequence to use and are waiting for us to catch up?


Erm... no comment.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:10 pm
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Leo
Boot

Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 25
Location: Derbyshire, UK

 		Does anyone have any fresh ideas to share?

I'm still really no closer to deciding on a firm starting order for the deck or a passkey.

I've even tried guessing the first word of the first line and trying to generate an appropriate keystream to match, but that's not as easy as it might seem at first. I thought the first word would probably be something like WHEN or WHAT (being the first word of a question) but then I started coming up with loads of four letter words that can start off a question. like WILL, DOES and HAVE.

Does anyone have any of the 'unique' clues given out with the T-shirts?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:27 pm
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Sin Vraal
Decorated


Joined: 28 Nov 2002
Posts: 219
Location: NJ
FrcknFrckn wrote:
But apparently we aren't all born with bullsh*t detectors, as a browse through any messageboard would show you.

My point was not that it was hard to tell the bullsh*t from the good stuff; my point was that after the board hits a certain level it's just not worth the time and effort to do the sorting.


So cutting the crap and all to the point - what are *your* thoughts/insights/results for shuffling fresh effective cards into a solitaire deciphering deck?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:47 pm
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

 		Solitaire cipher
I read Cryptonomicon very carefully and I did the Solitaire cipher by hand. I couldn't visualize how it worked without doing it step -by-step myself.

The main thing I took from that exercise is that the Solitaire cipher is almost impossible to break without the key.

As we know this must be a Solitaire cipher (and we know the order of the deck, or at least one or two choices for the order of the deck) and we know that the puzzle has been solved, we know that the key must be given somewhere.

I saw the spec about the face containing the key...I don't know but I do think that would be extraordinarily difficult to do by hand. As they seem to want this to be solved by hand, perhaps a simpler key is around??
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:53 am
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aznxasazn
Boot

Joined: 07 Nov 2004
Posts: 62
virtuquest wrote:
Although we are not keeping track, a player having solved Face1 and Face2...


virtuquest wrote:
:::VirtuCube Status:::
Face 1:Solved
Face 2:Solved
Face 3:Not Solved
Face 4:Not Solved


Virtuquest says someone solved it, though who is the question. Of course, Virtuquest could have also just thought someone solved it since they reported the repeat of the last two lines, though we all knew that "error" without solving it.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:19 am
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JimmyImpossible
Veteran


Joined: 27 Apr 2003
Posts: 104
Location: Ottawa

 		My two cents:

From previous Virtuquest experience, there have often been weirdly worded sentences and paragraphs which have had another purpose, namely, to find an anagram or some other letter organization that gives you more clues. I'm not saying that's necessarily what's going on here, I'm just saying that the clue given by face 1 is definitely weirdly worded and strikes me as very similar to other strange messages in other Virtuquest games.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:18 pm
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Leo
Boot

Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 25
Location: Derbyshire, UK
JimmyImpossible wrote:
there have often been weirdly worded sentences and paragraphs which have had another purpose, namely, to find an anagram or some other letter organization that gives you more clues.


My thoughts too. I have run virtually every combination of words through various anagram programs but nothing seems to work. I can't help but wonder if we're looking to deep and the answer's perhaps staring us in the face??

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:15 pm
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jzero
Boot

Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 43
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Leo wrote:
I can't help but wonder if we're looking to deep and the answer's perhaps staring us in the face??


That's what I'm thinking. As I said in the rant thread, I think we've "solved" face one in that we've seen all there is to see. The answer is either right there and we're looking too deeply and missing it (much like the inner 6x6 block), or we've found the answer and we're just not articulating it correctly.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:30 pm
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

 		being left to deductive reasoning
Quote:
Of course, Virtuquest could have also just thought someone solved it since they reported the repeat of the last two lines, though we all knew that "error" without solving it.


The second face (the green one) has a button to submit what I assume to be the answer to the question asked by the encoded text. When the text is correctly deciphered, the answer is submitted. I tried this with a few random answers and received a response of "incorrect". I assume that when the correct answer is entered, that submission will have get a "correct" response.

I think that is how Virtuquest knows the face was solved.

I also think it shows that the first two faces are tied together. As I recall, there is no similiar way to submit the answer for the first puzzle. Setting the puzzles up this way shows that the answer to the second puzzle depends on getting the answer to the first puzzle ( at least in part). By submitting the right answer to the second puzzle, one would be also showing they had solved the first puzzle.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:40 pm
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kendelsmith
Kilroy


Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 2

 		I've been following the posts and now I'm at the same impass as the rest of you. However, I took 'CRACK DECK' to mean that the crack (key) is the word DECK. It didn't work in the java decoder, however I haven't tried by hand. Has anyone double checked the java to make sure it really works? Also, Bruce Schneier mentions to move the jokers with the last two letters of the key, however this technique isn't in the java. Could that be the problem?

Just more thoughts.

I'm stumped by the 'BOTTOM CLUB IS WON'.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 8:04 pm
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Holycowcow
Boot

Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 12

 		10 characters.
I haven't seen anyone comment on the actual sequence of characters that the red puzzle face has to offer. It may be nothing, JUST SPEC... but there are actually 10 characters in each sequence before it cycles back through again. Yes, they do contain the words, but they also contain extra characters.

For example, the word EFFECTIVE is actually EFFECTIVEE

And ... BENEFITSBE

Obviously, the words are important as words, but if we are using it as a key to anything, each word position has ten characters. (The reason I think this MAY BE significant (SPEC) is that the longest word is nine characters - why not make it just nine phases then? Which would make all the sequences seem better. YOUYOUYOU instead of YOUYOUYOUY

Just a thought of SPEC...

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 8:05 pm
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PotVsKtl
Greenhorn

Joined: 07 Nov 2004
Posts: 8

 		Re: 10 characters.
Holycowcow wrote:
I haven't seen anyone comment on the actual sequence of characters that the red puzzle face has to offer. It may be nothing, JUST SPEC... but there are actually 10 characters in each sequence before it cycles back through again. Yes, they do contain the words, but they also contain extra characters.

For example, the word EFFECTIVE is actually EFFECTIVEE

And ... BENEFITSBE

Obviously, the words are important as words, but if we are using it as a key to anything, each word position has ten characters. (The reason I think this MAY BE significant (SPEC) is that the longest word is nine characters - why not make it just nine phases then? Which would make all the sequences seem better. YOUYOUYOU instead of YOUYOUYOUY

Just a thought of SPEC...


Huh? The letters repeat because it's looping them. The alternative is to have those spaces blank when the word is complete which would make the puzzle pretty obvious.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:18 pm
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