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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » GAME: Virtucube
[Puzzle] 2. Green Face - reverse 52 & JA53 JA54
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hungrygaijin
Boot


Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 48
Location: Brooklyn

 		Re: hey
Sin Vraal wrote:

1) Set up the deck "reverse-52" - normally 1, 2, 3, 4, ... 52, 53 (JA), 54 (JB), set it up 52, 51, 50, 49, ..., 53 (JA), 54 (JB). I didn't see any indication that the jokers might be reversed as well.


I set up the deck like this and did the first line of the cipher manually with a deck of cards...but I didn't get any words out of it. I also tried setting it up JB(54), JA(53), 52, 51, 50, etc. and that didn't work either. Now I wonder if "reverse" might be a keyword for setting up the deck and its just throwing us off by making us think we need to actually set the deck up in reverse.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:39 pm
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JzeroCSK
Guest


 		Bruce Schneier recommends that a passphrase used to key the deck be at least 64 characters in length.
The red face happens to have 64 characters in it. I can't help but wonder if there is a relationship between the two...

PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:11 pm
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xmythx
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Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 102
JzeroCSK wrote:
Bruce Schneier recommends that a passphrase used to key the deck be at least 64 characters in length.
The red face happens to have 64 characters in it. I can't help but wonder if there is a relationship between the two...


There must be.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:25 pm
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hungrygaijin
Boot


Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 48
Location: Brooklyn

 		This seems to be the connection we need...but there's really no way to tell what the center of the spiral is...and even if we did just try all of them the outer ring is changing everyday and the green face hasn't changed at all...this seems problematic.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 3:44 am
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xmythx
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Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 102
hungrygaijin wrote:
This seems to be the connection we need...but there's really no way to tell what the center of the spiral is...and even if we did just try all of them the outer ring is changing everyday and the green face hasn't changed at all...this seems problematic.


It's relative to the lunar cycle, it has to be.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 3:56 am
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hungrygaijin
Boot


Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 48
Location: Brooklyn

 		Guys, check the RED FACE thread for the spolier if you want (though its nothing we weren't already pretty sure of). It may have a starting point though, or a key. Damned if I can figure it out though.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:28 pm
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Silicon
Greenhorn

Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 7

 		There are 2 things about the text on face 2 that have been bugging me. One is that
Quote:
ODLT KOEMZGUJ OW QKVJD'K?

Seems to be an awfully odd way to start a page of text. About the only matching english phrasing I can come up with is "That bicycle is Steve's?"

The other odd one is
Quote:
VDTZGTPPCNEVRU

The list of 14 letter words cannot be too long, quintessential being the only one I can come up with off the top of my head.

Just taking a break from trying random Solitaire keys.

(Oh, this is my first post here. I've been lurking and helping a couple other guys with some of the other puzzles, but this one convinced me to sign up and post my own stuff)

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:02 pm
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Hyperion
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Joined: 14 Oct 2003
Posts: 147
Location: 32°08'N 110°56'W

 		Think maybe that the submit field at the bottom is to enter some kind of cypher that will decode the message? We might be thinking that it's to submit an answer, but I'm not sure after playing around with it.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:47 pm
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zaeil
Decorated


Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 233
Location: NC, US
Silicon wrote:
The other odd one is
Quote:
VDTZGTPPCNEVRU

The list of 14 letter words cannot be too long, quintessential being the only one I can come up with off the top of my head.


After manhandling the official Scrabble-approved long word list found here for, mmm, an hour or so, I have around 240 14-letter words...in the A's alone. They're more common than you might think!

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:23 pm
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cvk_0
Boot


Joined: 07 Nov 2004
Posts: 25
Location: Canada, eh!

 		spec.
I've been trying to solve this face in a similar way to what Silicon has described, looking at the structure of the words and trying to find decrypted words that have the same structure.

One thing that Silicon did not point out was the last question, "CA BGESI IV TYXSW?" now maybe I'm just being dumb, but the only form of question I can think of that fits this, is along the lines of "Is something something something? The usual answer to a question like this is yes or no. but both those answers are incorrect. This leads me to think this idea is wrong.

Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Another thing: someone mentioned on another thread that they suspected that "reverse", and the tree background was a hint to go from the bottom up. I've thought about this and think it's pretty safe to say it's wrong as it doesn't fit in with the 's one would expect to take the place of the 'K and 'A.

Finally, I'd earlier assumed that the title, the six indented lines, and the bottom paragraph were all keyed with the same keystream. This would mean that the cypher would be solveable in the fashion mentioned on the solitaire web site (A+K)-(B+K)=A-B. So far this approach has not worked vary well for me, at least for common english words. Thus I expect that the whole face is encrypted with a single keystream (if that helps).

These are my ideas currently. If you can think of any reason why they're wrong, fire away.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:32 pm
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Silicon
Greenhorn

Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 7

 		Re: spec.
cvk_0 wrote:
I've been trying to solve this face in a similar way to what Silicon has described, looking at the structure of the words and trying to find decrypted words that have the same structure.


I'm not really trying to solve it that way, I'm just looking for clues. One of which is whether the text on face 2 maintains the original spacing and punctuation or has been spaced around in a distracting way. And a good guess at the first lines of text might help to figure out what the key and deck order are.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:39 pm
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

 		Quick question: why is the deck 52-->1, 53,54?

And not 54,53,52----->1

I missed the part where this was decided. I haven't tried this with a deck of cards, but does having the jokers be the first two cards make the algorithm not work? I didn't think that it would.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:18 am
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aznxasazn
Boot

Joined: 07 Nov 2004
Posts: 62
rose wrote:
Quick question: why is the deck 52-->1, 53,54?

And not 54,53,52----->1

I missed the part where this was decided. I haven't tried this with a deck of cards, but does having the jokers be the first two cards make the algorithm not work? I didn't think that it would.


It is speculation that it would be 52-->1,53,54 due to the "reverse 52" and then the "JA53" and "JB54"

PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:26 am
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Daedalus-XIII
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Joined: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 74
Location: NRW, Germany

 		Another spec could be, its 53,52>1,54 for the 53 joker is placed on the left and the 54 on the right bottom.

I'm not quite able to check, for there are so many possible anagrams in the last cycle and as a noob to ARGs and native german (which makes analysis of sane sentence construction in slangs etc. somewhat difficult) I'm still on finding possible hints to the key (use as key..., use last row..., use as your key... ) There are quite a lot of possibilities to me, but some spare-letters make words but don't fit in somewhere (currently I'm trying to build questions, which would serve an answer as keyphrase, seems also possible at first glance, but can't prove that yet)

PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 6:01 am
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zaeil
Decorated


Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 233
Location: NC, US
Silicon wrote:
gambit wrote:
Could the phrase we're working with indicate that the last two letters of the key (whatever it is) are to be used as part of the key and not to optionally position the jokers?


I don't see that as likely, considering the presence of "JA53" and "JB54" on Face 2.


[SPEC]

I think that "JA53" and "JB54" are meant to be additional clues that the green face is to be solved by the Solitaire cipher (possibly in case one didn't solve the red face), as I originally posted here. Joker A in Solitaire has a value of 53--but this does not necessarily correspond to its starting position in the deck. Ditto for Joker B. The starting position of the jokers in the deck can make a huge difference in the generated keystream, as I've been discovering through trial and error with my way-too-slippery deck of cards. Smile I don't think that "reverse 52" refers specifically to the deck ordering, but rather might be a passkey, which is something I've been experimenting with (unsuccessfully at this point, but I still have a few things I'd like to try out before I give up on the idea!).

And I don't want to bust up the party or anything, but can we please move discussion of the green face and the Solitaire cipher to the proper thread?

I went ahead and moved it to the correct thread for you ~ varin

PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 11:10 am
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