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 Forum index » Meta » General META Discussion
What do you have to "sacrifice" to play ARG's?
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Elijah Snow
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Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 133
Location: Cin Sity

 		What do you have to "sacrifice" to play ARG's?
I've been doing some reading recently on consumer and market research. One of the ideas presented was that traditional research techniques (focus groups, questionnaires, etc.) only tell you how your doing among an average. This can be compensated for by looking at segments, or smaller sub-groups, but again the response is an average response. One idea that has been proposed is instead of asking, "How did we do?" ask, "What sacrifices are making today using product/service X that we can eliminate tomorrow?"

In the "What Constitutes and ARG" thread people have mentioned some of the sacrifices they have to make to play ARG's as they are today (time, loss of interactivity, beratement by others...chickens, dogs, goats Laughing ). I'm certain there are more, so...

What "sacrifices" do you have to make, personnally, to play ARG's as they are today? (and for the especially industrious) How could those sacrifices be eliminated tomorrow?

Discuss. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 8:20 am
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Caterpillar
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Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 1887
Location: cem's otherbody

 		SLEEP Shocked

With CTW for instance, most everything happens at night. Its usually 11-12 o'clock at night before most things even get rolling.

I was appreciative of the effort to roll back Dale's email updater, because prior to that rollback I don't think I was getting it until 1 am.

I think puzzles should be spread out to give everyone a chance to "see it first/solve it if they can". Put some out around 8-9am Eastern. If it hasn't been solved by that evening, it'll still be there.

I realize that if PMs are on the opposite side of the country, it can be difficult sometimes, but I'm sure it's possible. Get it all ready beforehand so work is minimal or something...

Did that even make sense? Smile

~cem

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 9:47 am
Last edited by Caterpillar on Fri Oct 10, 2003 10:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Varin
I Have No Life


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 2456
Location: South of where I used to be

 		Actually, I've been limiting my ARG time so that I don't have to sacrifice as much.

I know in the beginning I lost lots of SLEEP. I finally gave up and decided to sleep when I was tired and if I missed something, then I missed something.

I play when my daughter is napping so that I don't take time away from her. I'll do a quick check at night when my husband gets home also and maybe before bed. I've sort of fit playtime in little time crevices throughout my day. This is why you'll hardly see me in chat anymore and why I only lurk over at jadedmedia. Which brings up another point.

I think I can only one ARG at a time and I'm glad that some PMs recognize this. I know Acheron isn't officially starting until CTW is over. I think PMs need to be aware of the timelines of other ARGs.

Another sacrifice would be free time to do others hobbies/interests. I'm a big video/computer game player and I don't get much time to play. I know that if I skip a day or two in an ARG, its hard to catch up on all those posts Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 12:09 pm
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Ozy_y2k
Unfettered


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 460
Location: Carmel, Indiana

 		Most of my sacrifices while playing ARGs are in vain. I keep finding the virgins and offering them up to Zuul, but he still ain't giving me any puzzle hints for my trouble.

O

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 2:18 pm
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Caterpillar
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Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 1887
Location: cem's otherbody

 		Laughing Laughing Laughing

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 2:25 pm
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Varin
I Have No Life


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 2456
Location: South of where I used to be

 		Maybe Zuul likes more experienced women?
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"I still miss him to this day and probably always will." - Todd Keeler, Chasing the Wish

"meta meta meta, I made you out of play..." ~ j5

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 2:34 pm
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dmax
Unfictologist

Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1387
Location: Location: Location!
Ozy_y2k wrote:
Most of my sacrifices while playing ARGs are in vain. I keep finding the virgins and offering them up to Zuul, but he still ain't giving me any puzzle hints for my trouble.

O


Pick a different god. Of course, if you screw up... Twisted Evil
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That sounds like something HITLER would say!

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 11:18 pm
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Elijah Snow
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Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 133
Location: Cin Sity

 		I think one form of sacrifice is playing itself out in the CTW threads right now...the ability to jump into an ARG experience at any time.

Many people are coming back to CTW or just found out about it, but there are huge barriers to coming on board right now.

I also think there are players who've made a similar sacrifice in terms of time and effort, who feel that it's too late for others to join.

Which gets me back to one of my points...ARG's in their current form are too damn long and restrict new players from entering in effortlessly.

I've offered some suggestions in the past, but what are yours?

ES
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 8:58 am
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MageSteff
Pretty talky there aintcha, Talky?


Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 2716
Location: State of Denial
Elijah Snow wrote:
I think one form of sacrifice is playing itself out in the CTW threads right now...the ability to jump into an ARG experience at any time.

Many people are coming back to CTW or just found out about it, but there are huge barriers to coming on board right now.

I also think there are players who've made a similar sacrifice in terms of time and effort, who feel that it's too late for others to join.

Which gets me back to one of my points...ARG's in their current form are too damn long and restrict new players from entering in effortlessly.

I've offered some suggestions in the past, but what are yours?

ES


Being one of those who joined CTW in the middle of the game rather than right at the end... heh... I was in the unlucky position of being sandwiched between those who felt it was too late for new people to join, and those who were joining within a couple of weeks at the end. I do not subscibe to the "but there is so much to catch up on.." theory. If someone is interested they will either make the time to investigate deeper, ask someone for a synopsis, or read the trail. They may not be able to experience the full effect, but if it brings them on board for the next game, then haven't we just "sold" the product before it is manufactured? And in the CTW game, I was especially hoping one of the new people would solve the dreaded Greytwethers login... Unfortunately due to some snippy remarks about new people not having time to catch up we lost about 4 of the new people. They have not been back, we lost a future sale in a manner of speaking.

Sacrifice, yes, I have given up several hours of sleep on CTW, probably too many hours. But then that is my call to make, my choice in balancing work/home/school needs. On the other hand, I am doing a lot more general socializing (on line or in person) than I have done in years. This is a good thing in my view.

As for length and scope of ARGs... How does one determine what is too long? If you shorten the time frame,you are left with cutting some story development, or cramming too many puzzles and interactions into a day. I have work/family/school ... I can't be playing the game 24/7, I need that bit of down time to take care of my other needs.

There are many lengths of stories, from the extremely short under a hundred words to something that is a multi volume War and Peace. There should be a place for all of these in the ARG community, because it would be very boring indeed it all ARGs were set up to run in a mandatory time frame.

I'm now involved with Acheron, its pace is very different than CTW. I was and am frustrated from time to time with both, either for moving too fast, or moving too slow, but I am adaptable and if I can't, well there is always someothing else going on, or I can just hang around and talk with my friends.
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A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead


PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 4:26 pm
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Flynn
Decorated


Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Posts: 240
Location: UK

 		I'm still fairly new to this, and this is my first post outside of the ARG I'm in at the moment, but for me the whole "too much to catch up on" thing ain't necessarily so. I spent a weekend plus a couple of evenings catching up on Metacortechs and it was worth every minute - for a start, I haven't been told off for stating the obvious yet!! Having said that, it did help that people were generally tolerant to those who did state the obvious/repeat old information/etc.

So, personally, if a particular game grabs someone (and I wish I had enough time to play more than one), be nice to them. Even if they do seem irritatingly naive when you've been playing for a while. They might just have the knowledge needed for a particular puzzle...

PS - not that I've contributed anything yet, but never mind...

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 7:18 pm
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

 		Two points
1. Sleep, which I can't continue to give up.

2. As to the catching up thing, the forums can be challenging to navigate to find your way around to catch up on things. After playing Acheron for a while, it became difficult for me to see things as a new player would, and I didn't understand their questions. I didn't know how to explain the relationships and subtle things that seemed obvious only because I had been playing and developed a bit of an intuitive feel for the game. I'm not sure how to solve this problem. One idea I had is just to have a thread where everything that happens is posted in chronological order, no comments,discussion,etc. That way you can at least piece things together and it shouldn't be too hard to maintain.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 2:52 pm
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bagsbee
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Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Posts: 417
Location: NYC

 		Time, time, time.

Fortunately I caught Metacortechs early enough (only a few days after it started) that I was able to catch up quickly. Then...it consumed me. It was VERY fast-paced compared to Acheron, and you had to be really involved to keep on top of things, whether it was here in the Forums, on IRC, or just sitting there hitting your refresh button.

And as immensely enjoyable as Metacortechs was, I cannot keep up that pace again. My wife may just take the kids and leave. So I've taken more of an observer role with Acheron, and thank my lucky stars that Acheron is relatively slow-paced.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:27 am
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Omnie
Entrenched


Joined: 07 Oct 2003
Posts: 772
imbri wrote:
Interesting! During the game, people seemed to be constantly complaining that Metacortechs wasn't updating more and/or was moving too slowly.


Heh. Well, they came every few days or so, right? If I remember correctly, by the end of each between-updates period, we'd exhausted conversations about the previous updates/puzzles and were down to "Updates! Must have more updaaaates!!!" Maybe it had to do with the way we never knew when they would come, so each day, when I'd go online, I'd look forward to a potential update. When it wouldn't happen, disappointment would kick in. I'm not sure how you would get around this, since the update-every-Tuesday schedule seems like it would ruin some of the realism. The weird pacing issues might be not so much a problem as an artifact of trying to develop a story that's supposed to be running in real time.

imbri wrote:
Then when we went to the daily or 'live' updates, some people were rejoicing at the better pace while some were cursing it. Personally, I curse it... not only from a production standpoint, but from a player standpooint... no down time to work on spec, player resources, casual community building, etc.


Ohh, I loved it. That was incredibly exciting. I think I just stayed on as often as I could during that period, and could expect updates all the time. For realism, there's just no comparison - with updates coming in very close to real time, it felt like everything was actually happening up in Washington right at that moment. But then, I was lucky that this came at a time when I wasn't particularly busy. If it happened at another time, I probably would have been frustrated to be missing out. And, yes, we were breathlessly following along rather than speccing and bonding and all that, so it's good that this came near the end and only lasted for a short period of time.

So...yeah, I guess the various pacing methods are good for various players. Live updates all the time would discourage all but the most, um, 'obsessive' *ahem* players. So...an ideal balance? I don't know. There seem to be benefits and drawbacks to everything.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 5:47 pm
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colin
Entrenched

Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 810
Location: Australia
imbri wrote:
Interesting! During the game, people seemed to be constantly complaining that Metacortechs wasn't updating more and/or was moving too slowly. Then when we went to the daily or 'live' updates, some people were rejoicing...


In the FAQ it was said that the updates were regular, twice a week. but they were always a little bit off. I never really put together that they were happening at that rate, they were as hard to pin down as the whomp locations Very Happy Shocked

I think the other thing was that puzzles were solved so quickly everyone wanted to be there for the update to have a go

PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:26 pm
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