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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): General/Updates
Ahhh - I've got it
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angelo
Unfettered

Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 694

If I were writting the story I'd stick with your first theory.

I actually believed that is what would occur at some point during Halo 2, especially after reading First Strike... but I was wrong. Hopefully I'll still have a chance to be redeemed though. Right bungie? You wouldn't want to leave angelo hanging now would you?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:56 pm
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thebruce
Dances With Wikis


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 6899
Location: Kitchener, Ontario

Re: Flood theories

Phaedra wrote:
thebruce, it's all in spoiler tags because we don't find out about the
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Ark
until most of the way through Halo2, so it's a pretty big spoiler.

well, I was pretty much just referring to the discussion about the apocalypse being in spoilers, but I digress Wink

You should read the books Phaedra, they may not be 'english class' deep, but they do pose a lot of questions and moral conflicts, especially through the growth of master chief...

but tis, after all, just a suggestion. I like some of the spec that's been discuessed above though.

Another thing - I don't believe the forerunners saved, or protected the flood... remember, the flood couldn't be destroyed; the only way to stop the flood was to kill its food. So in a sense, that makes me think the flood were immune to whatever the halo rings did to the galaxy. So now, if some flood survived in the Halo(s), where did the rest in the galaxy go? Obviously, they wouldn't have activated the halos long ago unless the flood had escaped their research, so if Halo destroyed the flood's food (why emphasize food if halos would also kill the flood?), and yet the flood survived on Halo this long, where did the rest go?

facts:
1. The flood were encosed on Halo 04
2. The forerunners are supposedly extinct
3. The Halo rings were activated in the past to remove all 'food' (sentient life) from the galaxy, including the forerunners
4. The flood survived with no food on Halo until released once again

q's:
1. Why would the forerunners save the flood yet destroy all sentient life in order to stop the flood?
2. Why would the forerunners feel they'd need to stop the flood unless the flood was loose in the galaxy?
3. If the flood were loose in the galaxy, and the halos killed their 'food', not the flood themselves, and they could survive on Halo enclosed without food, where, pray tell, are the flood that weren't enclosed on Halo?

We must be missing some key elements to the Forerunner's existence in the past...

interesting though...
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
from appearance alone, it would seem like the Halo was like an ark for the Flood to survive... Smile so what exactly is the ark and who does it belong to? Razz

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 3:13 pm
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Kojubat
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Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 44

Re: Flood theories

thebruce wrote:

well, I was pretty much just referring to the discussion about the apocalypse being in spoilers, but I digress Wink


Some people haven't had a chance to experience it yet, and would like to be surprised. Wink

I've always sort of supposed that the Forerunners knew they couldn't do anything about the Flood, but there was something about them that warranted saving. My initial thought is that they were something vital to the Forerunner culture that got out of control. Sort of like if our stomach bacteria evolved into a sentient species. Or heck, perhaps that's what baby Forerunners look like.

Another thought is that they believed the Flood could be 'saved', but couldn't figure out how, so they quarantined them with a scorched-earth failsafe. They assumed that anyone that found the Flood would read the very clear instructions (SPDR-like) not to mess around with them, and worked on a genetic cure in another location, like, say, Earth.

Then again, maybe they couldn't figure out how to make two-sided Galaxy Destroying Tape, so they only could affect things outside the rings.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 3:50 pm
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angelo
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Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 694

Re: Flood theories

thebruce wrote:
[q's:
1. Why would the forerunners save the flood yet destroy all sentient life in order to stop the flood?
2. Why would the forerunners feel they'd need to stop the flood unless the flood was loose in the galaxy?
3. If the flood were loose in the galaxy, and the halos killed their 'food', not the flood themselves, and they could survive on Halo enclosed without food, where, pray tell, are the flood that weren't enclosed on Halo?

We must be missing some key elements to the Forerunner's existence in the past...


Questions 1 and 3 are the two that have bothered me for quite some time.

1) What's the point of saving all life from the flood, if the only way to do so is to destroy all life. Seems a bit backward to me. Either way the flood 'win', considering they will be the only 'species' left.

3) Can't say I can add a thing to that logic... Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 4:07 pm
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thunderclap8
Entrenched


Joined: 24 Sep 2004
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my personal theory is that the forerunners 'seeded' worlds with the potential for life to develop before they wiped themselves out. Sort of the 'restarting windows' solution Smile

I also wonder if the flood were some sort of experiment in the area of eternal (or at least extended) life. They seem to resurrect themselves quite well...
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 4:09 pm
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Phaedra
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Joined: 21 Sep 2004
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Re: Flood theories

thebruce wrote:
Phaedra wrote:
thebruce, it's all in spoiler tags because we don't find out about the
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Ark
until most of the way through Halo2, so it's a pretty big spoiler.

well, I was pretty much just referring to the discussion about the apocalypse being in spoilers, but I digress Wink

You should read the books Phaedra, they may not be 'english class' deep, but they do pose a lot of questions and moral conflicts, especially through the growth of master chief...

but tis, after all, just a suggestion. I like some of the spec that's been discuessed above though.

Another thing - I don't believe the forerunners saved, or protected the flood... remember, the flood couldn't be destroyed; the only way to stop the flood was to kill its food. So in a sense, that makes me think the flood were immune to whatever the halo rings did to the galaxy. So now, if some flood survived in the Halo(s), where did the rest in the galaxy go? Obviously, they wouldn't have activated the halos long ago unless the flood had escaped their research, so if Halo destroyed the flood's food (why emphasize food if halos would also kill the flood?), and yet the flood survived on Halo this long, where did the rest go?

facts:
1. The flood were encosed on Halo 04
2. The forerunners are supposedly extinct
3. The Halo rings were activated in the past to remove all 'food' (sentient life) from the galaxy, including the forerunners
4. The flood survived with no food on Halo until released once again

q's:
1. Why would the forerunners save the flood yet destroy all sentient life in order to stop the flood?
2. Why would the forerunners feel they'd need to stop the flood unless the flood was loose in the galaxy?
3. If the flood were loose in the galaxy, and the halos killed their 'food', not the flood themselves, and they could survive on Halo enclosed without food, where, pray tell, are the flood that weren't enclosed on Halo?

We must be missing some key elements to the Forerunner's existence in the past...

interesting though...


Do we know that whatever life is *on* the Halo when the Halo is triggered gets wiped out? I mean, we know all the life in a however-many-billion-light-year-radius gets wiped out, but what about what's *on* the Halo?

I was mostly joking about the Flood being a form of the progenitors of all life in the galaxy, but it is a theory I've played with, because...

Scientists hypothesize that all life sprang from a single strain of bacteria.

What if the Flood represents an evolved, but still essentially "pure" form of that original bacterium? Think about what the Flood does...it essentially reanimates dead bodies. Even though it doesn't technically revive the creatures it kills (it just uses the bodies as a host) it does, in a grotesque sense, give life.

We've seen the Flood reproduce -- the large, swollen-looking ones burst, producing a score of little Floodlings that then go looking for a body to inhabit. It's more like spores than animal reproduction as we know it -- it's primitive, asexual, parthenogenic.

We know that the Flood must be able to survive without fresh bodies...I would assume it's the little ones that survive, since it seems like the big ones eventually burst into Floodlings.

If the Forerunners realized that the Flood represented what was still a reasonably pure form of the original strain of life (i.e. given the right circumstances, deprived of a food source, it could possibly begin to evolve into non-parasitic life as we know it) perhaps they would destroy the rest of the life in the galaxy, but allow some Flood to survive, hoping that if they were unable to feed on anything, eventually they might again begin to evolve, essentially starting the whole process over again.

And maybe, given a second chance in however many billions of years later, sentient life might find a way to contain the Flood without wiping everyone out.

So, thebruce asked...

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
from appearance alone, it would seem like the Halo was like an ark for the Flood to survive... Smile so what exactly is the ark and who does it belong to? Razz


Maybe it is an
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
ark
for the Flood.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 4:19 pm
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Smoke
Veteran

Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 75
Location: Atlanta, GA

The Forerunner were masters of efficiency.

The Halos serve a dual purpose; containing the weapon that would wipe out all life (and thus starve the Flood to death), as well as acting as a massive, multi-environment laboratory to observe the Flood, possibly finding a way of destroying them were another outbreak to occur. That this acts as an inadvertant ark for the Flood is somewhat ironic, but it is a sound idea.

There are two stockpiles of the smallpox virus left in the world. The disease was wiped out decades ago, much to the relief of many. There has always been talk of destroying the last samples; were they to fall into the wrong hands, the results would be disasterous. A supervirus could be crafted, that could, quite literally, kill nearly every person on the planet. However, the knowledge that can be gleaned from the samples is invaluable, and they are the only source for an antivirus, were such an outbreak to occur.

I am still of the opinion that the Ark is the Earth/Luna system. Or, possibly, the seed theory. That all the races we have seen have been bipedal oxygen breathers (with the exception of the, scientifically viable, methane-breathing Grunts) lends quite a bit of credibility to that idea.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 4:30 pm
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angelo
Unfettered

Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 694

Re: Flood theories

So, if your theory is correct...

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
ultimately we are the great, great, great ... great, great grandchildren of the flood.

If that turns out to be the case. I can use simple logic to determine the action I will take.

I hate the flood = true
I hate playing as something I hate = true
I am the evolved flood = true

I will never play this stupid game again. Wink

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 4:30 pm
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Shadowkiller
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Joined: 27 Aug 2004
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Location: Spokane

From my understanding of the Halos from the games is that they were research facilities meant to study the flood, but they also contained a last resort weapon in case they broke containment. To cleanse the galaxy you don't have to do it from the Halo that lost containment, once one Halo fires the rest follow suit. The only way to continue the firing after cancelling it is from the Ark.

On the Delta Halo to me it seems like it was the Halo that lost containment. It is battle scarred with burnt out hulls of ships and environmentally where the battle with the flood still rages it is rather harsh. Very unlike Halo 04, which was rather pristine.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 4:42 pm
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Gestas
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Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 92
Location: Mostly away in Real Life (TM) at present

Smoke wrote:

There are two stockpiles of the smallpox virus left in the world. The disease was wiped out decades ago, much to the relief of many. There has always been talk of destroying the last samples; were they to fall into the wrong hands, the results would be disasterous. A supervirus could be crafted, that could, quite literally, kill nearly every person on the planet. However, the knowledge that can be gleaned from the samples is invaluable, and they are the only source for an antivirus, were such an outbreak to occur.


I'm liking the theory on this thread - it's great, and it's going some way to making sense of the exact same questions I had about Halo Laughing

But the above quote was a nice point for an aside - we don't actually need those stockpiles of smallpox anymore. Discounting rumours that there have been leaks to other places that have smallpox unofficially, the virus was completely sequenced a while ago. So, with the genome intact for several strains, we could, in theory, synthesise smallpox from scratch.

It has already been done for another virus (can't remember which but it was a few years ago), and could be done relatively quickly today. Plus, if an outbreak occurred, it would mean that we could get samples from the outbreak Wink
(Disclaimer: I'm a biochemist)

Sorry for the threadjack - I now return you to the original discussion of Flood as a progenitor for life itself (it's starting to remind me of the Black Oil from X-Files to be honest) Wink

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 8:30 pm
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NSA
Boot

Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 54
Location: United States of America

Humm! My few ideas..

I *believe* Cortana mentioned somewhere during Halo that when the Halo's activate they do kill all viable life in whatever huge radius, but whomever is on Halo survives the blast. As the explosion goes outwards I suppose, the idea is viable. Since we've only encountered Flood on Halos (and that weird Forerunner gas mining place!), I would assume this idea works. Since the Halos supposidly "starve" the Flood, they would either (A) be dead everywhere from 'hunger', or (B) be everywhere but not expanding their numbers. Otherwise, (C) happens.. where the Halo's kill everything in their radius that is a host or viable host. Since the universe must have been mighty overrun by flood, and since we dont see flood anywhere else, the Halo's must have worked outside the Ring.

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
So any flood that managed to make it all the way to Halo would survive, though without any ships or other forms of transport, they would be effectively cut off against escaping. This would seem to explain the Gravemind. He (it?) spoke as if he knew the Forerunners, or at least had experiance with them. So somehow he survived the first round of Halo-Bursts millena ago. If the outbreak did indeed start on Delta Halo, and the Gravemind managed to hide out there, it would explain a few things.


On Halo 04 (first Halo game) the Flood were (apparently) sealed away in stasis, but the Covenant (in their unknowing?) unleashed the Flood while they were searching for important clues. Im pretty sure it was the Covenant who 'let the flood loose', since they were on Halo already when we arrived. It is interesting to note that by the time Master Chief encounters the Flood we only see mutilated Marines/Covenant forms. I do not remember seeing any other variants, or even seeing the forms equip weapons other than human/covenant firearms. This would lead creedance to the idea that only the small "seed" or "ranger" forms survived the duration. Makes sense I suppose.

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
On Delta Halo, which I think is ridiculous, since wouldnt Halo 04 be the "Delta" Halo.. as in Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, DELTA. Oh well, moving along..

Things seem a LOT more worn down, and weathered than they did the first time around. The Gravemind is there as well, lurking in the Deep, and perhaps all over Halo since he can teleport. Did we find out how the Flood got unleashed this time around? I cannot remember exactly. I do know the Gravemind did not kill/assimilate the Master Chief / Arbiter because he knew they were his best chance of stopping the activation of Halo (thus killing his chances for a few more millenia). I suppose he took the risk of leaving them alive (and a risk to him), in order to stop Halo from being activated.


Spoiler (Rollover to View):
As for the whole "ARK" conspiracy... I believe the Ark is on earth somewhere, most likely Buried somewhere in Africa. Since life here on earth is rumored to have begun somewhere near the Middle-east/Africa, its possible that the Forerunners are us. They created the Halo network as a last resort, and put 2 of every animal (etc) on the "Ark" and gave it the only remote activation command. Sending it FAR out into space, they activated the Halo's and perhaps crashed on earth? Or landed I suppose. Somehow in the process (crashing maybe) the technology was lost or forgotten, and thus we had to relearn things again.

As to why we dont worship the "Forerunners", it would make sense that since the whole Forerunner space was overrun by Flood, "Earth" would not have been one of their colonies, and they settled here at the last minute, so no giant weird structures or technology Smile ASSUMING there was a crash landing or some non-happy way the Forerunner ended up on earth, it would make sense that the Ark was buried or something. Maybe its crashing even caused the dinosaurs to become extinct Smile Or maybe that was a result of the Halo's firing... and Forerunner humans were sheltered IN the Ark.. humm.


Wow okay, I kind of rambled a lot. I appologize. There are just SO many theories out there that could work.

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
When the Prophet of Regret was talking about his little sortie to Earth he mentioned that he had not anticipated finding the humans there. Thus he had a tiny little fleet. We could fantasize that the ILB Artifact attracted him there, but in all reality I think Regret found something that showed him the final resting place of the "ARK". In his excitement he jumped at the chance to be the one who found it and that would most likely bring him great acclaim and power. Since Regret was only on earth for a few hours, and since Master Chief ruined their nice shiny Scarab, I believe Regret fled without finding the Ark definitively. If he had found it and captured it, we would have seen it I believe. Also, there would have been no reason to invade Earth again on a larger scale.

My questions are what did Regret tell Truth before he got assimilated by the Gravemind? Obviously the Prophet of Truth knew something valuable was on Earth since he took off with the rest of his Fleet to Earth at the end of the game. But also, since Truth wanted to go on the "Great Journey", and since Tartarus had the key and all was set to go as planned, why would Truth leave at hour of victory? I am guessing Truth knows more than he lets on about, that Halo is a weapon, and perhaps their Great Journey isnt all its cracked up to be.


Okay! Enough! Sorry again.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:19 am
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Roarke
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Joined: 25 Aug 2004
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Spoiler (Rollover to View):

It seems to me like Regret was searching for an artifact on Earth that would contain the coordinates to one of the Halos, similar to the artifact that Cortana deciphered when she made the jump to Halo 04 at the beginning of the first game. It seems clear that the prophets didn't know the location of Delta Halo prior to Regret jumping there, because there is a later cut scene where Truth says something about the prophesy of finding another Halo being fulfilled. Perhaps the ILB artifact attracted them to Earth to look for an artifact, Regret used it to determine the location of Delta Halo, but didn't realize it was The Ark until he gathered more information from Delta Halo.

One other question: during cut scenes from High Charity (especially the very first one of the game), doesn't it look like there is a flaming portion of Halo floating in space very near to the city? Did they tow a portion of Halo 04 back to their homeworld, or is this another Halo that has been destroyed at some point? Or am I totally off about what I'm seeing?
[/spoiler]
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:07 am
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Smoke
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Spoiler (Rollover to View):
They didn't bring a chunk of Halo 04 with them. High Charity and her attached fleet went to the Threshhold/Basis system after Halo 04's destruction. The remnants of 04 are now floating/burning at the Lagrange Point between Threshhold (the gas giant where the installation hangs) and her moon Basis (which, apparently, has a Earth-style atmosphere, as one of the multiplayer maps is on Basis)

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:33 pm
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NSA
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Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Yeah, in case anyone didnt realize, High Charity is apparently a giant space station, with the Forerunner ship as its core. They used it as a powersource apparently. So I suppose calling it their "Homeworld" is a bit of a misnomer, but since they are a collective, they dont really have any world of their own I guess.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 4:13 am
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Phaedra
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Joined: 21 Sep 2004
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NSA wrote:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Yeah, in case anyone didnt realize, High Charity is apparently a giant space station, with the Forerunner ship as its core. They used it as a powersource apparently. So I suppose calling it their "Homeworld" is a bit of a misnomer, but since they are a collective, they dont really have any world of their own I guess.


Do we know who the founding race of the Covenant was? I mean, whose idea was it? I'm thinking probably the Prophets. And do they have a homeworld?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 4:05 pm
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