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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): General/Updates
Ahhh - I've got it
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sam
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 49
Location: UK (but soon to be in NZ!)

 		Ahhh - I've got it
ok. Prepare to stretch that imagination.

Contains semi-spoilers, so i'll put in a box.

Spoiler (Rollover to View):

The flood is approaching.
The covenant call the earth the ark (in H2).
The flood is maybe going to wipe out all life in the universe.
The covenant mistakenly think that activating the Halos will carry them on the great journey

Making the obvious biblical connections leads to

"the ark of the covenant"
and
"the ark that saves noah [the covenant] from the flood"

In Halo 3 we all go to Mt Ararat! Shocked Laughing



maybe.




btw, finished the game - loved it, but my god that ending... aRGGHHHHH


Sam
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:43 am
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DreamOfTheRood
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Joined: 08 Sep 2004
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 		You taunt me with you X-box and your Halo 2 and your spoiler boxes.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:06 pm
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BeeNetter
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Spoiler (Rollover to View):
If the Forerunner were so afraid of the Flood that they were willing to wipe out all life in the galaxy (inlcuding themselves) to destroy the Flood, why would they store the Flood within each Halo? In the Library no less, the one place where you can retrieve the Index. Weren't they afraid the Flood might escape containment and kill people who tried to retrieve the Index?

The whole system of Halos just seems really nonsensical. Why would the Forerunner go to the extreme length of building seven Halos to wipe themselves out? Why weren't there any Forerunners left? It doesnt make sense at all.

As for Biblical metaphors: "The Ark" can be interpereted two ways - the Ark of the Flood or the Ark of the Covenant.

Noah's Ark, the Ark of the Flood, preserved life at a time when all other life was destroyed. The biblical Flood is represented in both the Flood themselves, and the Halos. In between the two, all life is destroyed - except for life on the Ark. For those who believe that mankind is descended from the Forerunners, it is tempting to think that Earth is the Ark. However, I do not think it would be so simple. If all life was destroyed except for mankind, humanity should be much more advanced than the Covenant. Also, there should be much more Forerunner technology on Earth - we would be the ones worshipping the Forerunners, not the Prophets. This is obviously not the case.

The Ark of the Covenant represents the covenant which God made with his people after the Flood. (Yes this is a grossly oversimplified view, I'm ignoring the rest because circumcision and the Ten Commandments do not relate to the Halo universe!) Ironically, this covenant includes that there will never be another Flood, and God will never again wipe out all life. This appears to be the exact opposite of what the Halo Ark does. However, there's one more feature of the Ark that is familiar to everyone who's watched "Indiana Jones" - Anyone who looks in the Ark dies a horrible death. So the Ark is not completely benign.

However, neither of these explanations seems to correspond very well to Halo2 canon. I think Bungie is just playing around with religious imagery. The "ark of the covenant" speculation may not be any more significant than Prophets wearing Halos on their head.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:34 am
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MNPundit
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 3:21 am
Last edited by MNPundit on Tue Nov 16, 2004 3:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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MNPundit
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 		Not quite, I'm not sure if this is because you compressed things but just in case... On the Second Interpretation:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Quoting: "The Ark of the Covenant represents the covenant which God made with his people after the Flood. (Yes this is a grossly oversimplified view, I'm ignoring the rest because circumcision and the Ten Commandments do not relate to the Halo universe!) Ironically, this covenant includes that there will never be another Flood, and God will never again wipe out all life."

The never-another-flood Covenant was made for Noah and that was represented by a Rainbow that God will never again wipe out all life... BY WATER. That's a key difference as most Christian ideology at least, believes that the world will now end in Fire (planet glassing!)


PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 3:23 am
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sam
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Location: UK (but soon to be in NZ!)

 		I guess I should have paid closer attention in Divinity classes... Crying or Very sad

Thanks for the education


Sam
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 4:54 am
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sam
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Location: UK (but soon to be in NZ!)
DreamOfTheRood wrote:
You taunt me with you X-box and your Halo 2 and your spoiler boxes.



Muahahahahahaaaa!
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 4:56 am
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jellyfish_green
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sam wrote:
DreamOfTheRood wrote:
You taunt me with you X-box and your Halo 2 and your spoiler boxes.


Muahahahahahaaaa!


Darn it, it's this sort of thing that makes me wonder if waiting until Christmas to unwrap Halo2 is a good idea.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:38 am
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thebruce
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MNPundit wrote:
Not quite, I'm not sure if this is because you compressed things but just in case... On the Second Interpretation:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
The never-another-flood Covenant was made for Noah and that was represented by a Rainbow that God will never again wipe out all life... BY WATER. That's a key difference as most Christian ideology at least, believes that the world will now end in Fire (planet glassing!)


Well, in short, metaphorically, or partially physically, yeah... Razz
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
why is all this in spoiler tags? Confused

I wouldn't say Christian ideology believes the world will end in fire... if you read Revelation, there's a lot more than that... I'd almost go so far as saying the end of the world as we know will come by anything BUT water Razz 'fire' is one aspect of the apocalypse... I wouldn't necessarily equate the covenant glassing earth to the apocalypse itself... but I digress...
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:33 am
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daboking
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 		thebruce is right... wormwood is just one aspect... there are the 4 horses of the apocalypse which each represent a different facet of destruction from war, to starvation, etc. The bowls of wrath, seals, ... not a time I want to go through. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:41 am
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Phaedra
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 		Flood theories
thebruce, it's all in spoiler tags because we don't find out about the
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Ark
until most of the way through Halo2, so it's a pretty big spoiler.

Now, I haven't read the books, so this may all be useless because there's some piece of information I'm missing.

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
I admit, I heard "ark" and thought, "Oh, the Ark of the Covenant, ha very ha ha." The Ark of the Covenant, biblically, contained the tablets of the Law, so, going with that, I would expect there to be some item or location on Earth that contains instructions of some sort, perhaps information that may help humanity figure out how to destroy the Flood without killing everything.

But...

It's *NOT* the "Ark of the Covenant" -- if anything, it's the Ark of the Forerunner or the Ark of the Flood. The Covenant didn't create it, and there's no sign that it was intended for them. I don't remember what the Arbiter's reaction to hearing the term was, if it was even shown, but I don't remember any sign that the Covenant were familiar with the term.

In any case, Bungie may not care...as BeeNetter observed, they may just be playing around with religious imagery and terms that they know will have resonance with their audience. They may even be intentionally twisting the resonance those terms have -- for those of us coming from a Jewish or Christian background, the term "Covenant" is enormously positive -- G-d's gift to humanity, so it's rather ironic that in Halo the term has negative connotations for humanity.

But, considering that Gravemind appears to be Flood, or somehow related to the Flood, I think it's a good bet that if it's not the Ark of the Forerunners, it's the Ark of the Flood.

And if it *is* the Ark of the Flood, then it has the resonance of a mythic background in which it saves a fraction of the living things on earth at a time when everything else was destroyed.

So, presumably the Ark in Halo, whatever it is, will contain or be something that will help preserve at least a fraction of the living things in the galaxy either from the Flood or from the Halos. Unless, of course, Bungie is twisting this, too.

I have a Crazy Theory (which may be moot if they're not going to make a Halo 3) that the Ark isn't among humanity (i.e. located somewhere on earth); it is humanity. I have absolutely no basis in fact for this, mind you, but I think it's going to turn out that some humans either have an immunity to the Flood which can somehow be used as a preventative measure, or the Forerunners (G-d) somehow left some sort of clue (if I were writing it it would be encoded in human DNA) as to how to render the Flood harmless.

Like BeeNetter said, I can't accept that the Forerunners would store the Flood in each Halo if they were so frightened that they wanted to wipe out all life in the galaxy in order to destroy it. Why wipe themselves out? Why aren't there any around? Either it's bad writing, or there's a lot more backstory out there. I'm opting for backstory. Something's not what it seems, here.


BeeNetter wrote:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
However, there's one more feature of the Ark that is familiar to everyone who's watched "Indiana Jones" - Anyone who looks in the Ark dies a horrible death. So the Ark is not completely benign.


Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Well, yes and no. Indiana Jones aside, the reason the Ark was dangerous, biblically, is because it was, for lack of a better term, saturated with the presence of G-d. In Hebrew thought, holiness is something that can be transmitted (think Moses' face shining from being in the presence of G-d), just like ritual impurity. Touching a Torah scroll, precisely because it is so holy, ironically makes one's hands ritually impure. Midrash says that at the sound of G-d's voice, the 600,000 at Sinai died and had to be resurrected, which is why only the first two commandments are in the first person (after that, G-d relayed his words to Moses). So it isn't so much the Ark that is dangerous as G-d Himself.

Translating this into what we know of Halo terminology, that would equal the Forerunners being dangerous. I think there are still some around somewhere...they're too intriguing for a good writer to want them to be irretrievable.

And it seems to me that there must be some important connection between the Forerunners and the Flood, since the Forerunners felt some need to let the Flood survive on the Halos.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 12:36 pm
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angelo
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Phaedra wrote:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
I have a Crazy Theory (which may be moot if they're not going to make a Halo 3) that the Ark isn't among humanity (i.e. located somewhere on earth); it is humanity. I have absolutely no basis in fact for this, mind you, but I think it's going to turn out that some humans either have an immunity to the Flood which can somehow be used as a preventative measure, or the Forerunners (G-d) somehow left some sort of clue (if I were writing it it would be encoded in human DNA) as to how to render the Flood harmless.


I'd be inclined to agree with your theory. My reason being:


Spoiler (Rollover to View):
In First Strike Johnson talks about how he 'tasted bad' to the flood. Aparently something about his biology didn't make him a suitable flood carrier. Which fits in perfectly with your 'the Ark is humanity' theory.

In First Strike the Chief is forced to decide wether to reveal Johnson's immunity there by making him a guinea pig for scientists or figure out another way to save the human race. Ultimately he decides against ratting out Johnson, but if there is a continuation of this story I'd have to imagine that Johnson would reveal his 'gift' and that some how that would be harnessed to stop the flood.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:01 pm
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Phaedra
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angelo wrote:
I'd be inclined to agree with your theory. My reason being:

In First Strike...<spoiler snipped>


Aha!

Anything to support my Other Crazy Theory that:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
The Forerunners haven't destroyed the Flood because the Flood is an evolved, parasitic form of the bacterium from which all life sprang?


Probably not, hmm?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:14 pm
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angelo
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 		Um... no.

You really need to get that stress looked at... Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:48 pm
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Phaedra
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angelo wrote:
Um... no.

You really need to get that stress looked at... Wink


Darn. Yeah, probably.

Well, if I were writing the story, that's what *I* would do. But then again, I am sick and twisted and have a tendency to overcomplicate things.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:11 pm
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